Nuristanica broad leaf drug origin?

[RingtailCanyon]

Yes I’m sure that kafiristan post rekindled a fire in my stoned memory. Like I said… Rob’s books aren’t easy to read. It sounds like there are discrepancies in his terms. He says kafiristanica is the NLD ancestor? I’ll look back in hashish! when I Get a chance later today.

 

[RingtailCanyon]

I was wrong. I was thinking of the immigrants from Chinese Turkestan in 1930s that traveled with their narrow leaf genetics and crossed them with wild broad leaf genetics from the Kunar valley. They then settled in the mazar i sharif area. Clark says that Afghanistan was narrow leaf pre 1930.

 

[Roms]

Thanks for your time, ya not surprising that our cannabis scientists books are difficult to digest, their history or taxonomy theories are erroneous like upside down. I think that the intelligentsia doesn't really realise the Afghan breeding BLD x NLD in the ages in Mazar i shariff and quasi idem for the human prehistory there around and into the Hindu kush. Let's hoping new ethnobotanical studies about Nuristani people for exemple this is The good starting point of understanding, i'm sure that we can find nice fossil BLDA pollen evidences there. Puff puff boom boom Ringta' have a good one bro!

https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijua...i-shariff-rsc-line-roms?p=8450118#post8450118

 

[Maggotbrain]

This is a very interesting discussion. There was a genetic study done in 2003 at Indiana University which examined genetic markers from 157 different cannabis. The obtained samples of hemp, Cannabis Sativa as identified by Carl Linnaeus in 1753, and Cannabis Indica, identified by Jean-Baptiste Lamarck in 1785, and from all over the world. They graphed the markers on a chart and it clearly showed that hemp and psychoactive cannabis have differing genetic make-ups. There is a slight overlap of hemp genetics with that of psychoactive varieties but there are three distinct groupings of genes. One group is the Russian hemp group (Cannabis Sativa), the second group is the psychoactive group (Cannabis Indica), and the third group is Cannabis Ruberelis. Interestingly, Afghan cannabis has the greatest overlap with hemp followed by Chinese Indica. Although the study's title is "Genetic evidence for speciation in Cannabis (Cannabaceae)", and it seems to indicate three distinct groups, the study's conclusion does not clearly state that they are different species. They hedge a bit and say more research is needed. Here is a link to the study.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...idence_for_Speciation_in_Cannabis_Cannabaceae

 

[Roms]

Hi Maggotbrain thanks for the link and input.

I think this great study constitute the base of today understanding but according to the sample populations of accessions it's greatly perfectible. For example Afghanistan samples are mostly from westerners (NL, G13 etc) and aren't all from landrace, sadly also just one sample from Pakistan and no one from the true BLDA Hindu Kush landrace place i mean Nuristan!

Also no samples from Indonesia and Micronesia which are probably the original Austronesian NLDA cradle! (One more very needful sample to understand the Austronesian influence would be Madagascar too).

So again confusion between BLDA and NLDA imho...

Vibes!

 

[Maggotbrain]

Hi Roms,
Yes, I agree they didn't sample plants from all areas of the world but it's the first genetic study I've seen that studies how cannabis cultivars are related to one another. To me, the graph in figure 4 clearly indicates a separation between hemp and psychoactive cannabis with some overlap. A more inclusive study would be great but I have not seen one. We can all speculate about the genetic links but studies like this are the only way to know for sure. Are you saying that narrow-leaf varieties originated in Austronesian? I had not read that anywhere before.

 

[Roms]

For sure Magg' that's only with this kind of serious genetic study that we will know the true but for now It's too incomplete i think to issue certain conclusions about NLDA. Actually yes from what i know i'm the first one in the community to elaborate an Austronesian theory of the cannabis spread, and idem about BLDA and Nuristan but it really seems elemental when you know antediluvian history and experimented landraces in general!

Imho cannabis sativa drug ancestor is much older than we imagine and came from equatorial/tropical regions, then It has become ruderalis and hemp in the high latitudes of the northern hemisphere because of the logic decreasing intensity of the sun.

 

[RingtailCanyon]

Maybe all origin theories come from biased and political objectives. The nazis come to mind and their aryan idiotology. China can gain from saying the origins are within their borders.
I like your open mind roms.
If it came from tropical backgrounds then why does it only naturalize outside of tropics?
If it was austronesian in it’s dispersal, than the history of the coconut could be parallel to that of cannabis?

 

[therevverend]

It probably should be 'Cannabis Sativa Indica' and Cannabis Sativa Sativa. Not 'Cannabis Sativa' and 'Cannabis Indica' because the split was so recent, less then 10,000 years ago, and the genetic differences are so tiny. The plants easily interbreed with each other and through selective breeding it isn't hard to turn a narrow leaf population into a wide leaf population and vice versa. It's also important to remember that 'Cannabis Indica Indica means Indian drug varieties. Cannabis Indica Afghanica is a subspecies of Cannabis Indica, the original species of drug cannabis. After drug cannabis and fiber cannabis split Afghanicas arose as India's Indicas adapted to the mountainous terrain of Central Asia. Perhaps with some back crossing with Cannabis Sativa Sativa that went the other way around the Tibetan Plateau.

Here's a link to an article about the 2000 year old brazier found in the Pamir Mountains of western China with THC residue in it. The likelihood that the cannabis they were vaporizing could have been the ancestor of modern Afghanica Kafiristanica. Kafiristanica only grows in the high mountains and it's feral, not cultivated. It's also Auto flowering, Ruderalis, or at least extremely photo sensitive, which is the trait that makes it easiest to identify. It has to be because the season is so short, June-mid September. I believe something like the Indian Landrace Exchange's Lolab Valley would be the southernmost limit of Kafiristanica, although they don't identify it as such.

https://www.indianlandraceexchange.com/geneticlibrary/lolab-valley/

Breadwizard here on IC grew some, he said it Autoflowered and didn't particularly like the hot California sun.

https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijua...eeding/landraces/373743-lolab-valley-kashmiri

As far as splitting Afghanica even further. Into Afghanica Kandahari, Afghanica Mazari, etc. there are differences between the Pashtun region types and the northern Turkish types. However I wouldn't do it, there's so much interchange of genetics between farmers in the north and south, that goes back hundreds of years. I believe genetic analysis would determine the various cultivated types of Afghanica to be quite closely related. I mean this from a botanical viewpoint, not a grower and collector's viewpoint. As a grower and collector all these various subgroups are interesting and 'valid'..

 

[Roms]

If it came from tropical backgrounds then why does it only naturalize outside of tropics?
If it was austronesian in it’s dispersal, than the history of the coconut could be parallel to that of cannabis?

Ya coconut is comparable, banana also... All from Malaysia...

Cannabis can naturalize there but only in special good places i think, not as easy as in Asia or Europe with more vegetative sun time. Man as always help the process but is there NLD in Malaysian old rituals i wonder ? Need to study it deeply, ethnobotany again but i know a legend about a tribal sacred tree of life in New Caledonia before the 50s. (said to me by BZH friend navigator and apnéis sinner, the cadénoniens even had offered him land wow, RIP bro!). NLDA or BLDA i think that all are from antic and oral cultures, with time things disappeare like for the knowledge and skills.

 

[Roms]

Vibes for my next projects i hope to reproduce Tom Hill's Pakistan X18 (DNA Reserva Privada), with just one pack lol wish me luck! In case of no stable male found i will have some TH F2s made by @GoatCheese , thank you very much brotha!

Cross project with Deep Chunk too, has anyone already done this cross DC fem x X18 male ? @Raco @Tom Hill ?

 

[GoatCheese]

The repro seeds i made are not Tom Hill X18 f2, so you have understood it abit wrong, buddy. The female was from Reserva Privada. Two males were used to make those seeds; one from Tom Hill and one from Reserva Privada (mixed pollen).

PS:
All the seeds i had to share went to Romsy, so don't bother asking any, people!

 

[Roms]

Hey ok mix pollen of both is even better thank you again!

 

[Roms]

Kalash people from Nuristan now refugees in Pakistan, proto-historic culture in extinction ! In my opinion BLDA authors and creators ! Thanks altitude and mother Nature.

Le peuple Kalash face à l'effritement de leur identité (Camille Delbos) | hanslucas.com

Le peuple Kalash est une tribu animiste dépositaire d'une culture de plus de 4000 ans, enclavés dans les gorges de l'Hindu-Kush à la frontière Pakistano-Afghane. Singuliers dans la région, leur mode de vie et identité sont menacés par un environnement en mutation.

hanslucas.com

 

[Roms]

Well now i would say that BLDA is Nuristanica before becoming wild and Kafiristanica in lowers valleys.

 

[Roms]

A vey NLD in Nuristan, Pakistan side lower valley i guess
By @landracewarden

Trace of recessive NLDA arrived thousands years ago?

The other Afghan and higher side of Nuristan should be more BLD interesting...

 

[Roms]

 

[chilliwilli]

A vey NLD in Nuristan, Pakistan side lower valley i guess
By @landracewarden
View attachment 18771737
Trace of recessive NLDA arrived thousands years ago?

The other Afghan and higher side of Nuristan should be more BLD interesting...

What an amazing coloration. Do u know if any editing was done with the pic to make the purple that vibrant?

 

[Roms]

Yeah i just edited lighting, here's the original :

 

[Roms]

Altered morphologies and physiological compensation in a rapidly expanding dwarf bamboo in alpine ecosystems

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15230430.2018.1463733

" Vertical distributions of bamboo leaves at montane and alpine sites, and schematic illustrations of dwarf bamboo structure at each site"

Altitude alpine dwarfing of cannabis do quite the same, less height and more leaf area. Transformation and adaptation BLD from NLD.