One thing though, it's not approved for anything in containers except ornamental. AFAIK
Smiley
Smiley
Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
Right. It's supposed to be used only outdoors, the same as many other fungicides/plant remedies.
But we ignore that
Fat J
Member
The container statement is just due to regulatory issues. The bee colony collapse issue is the only real problem i see with imid - Imid should NOT be used outdoors IMHO, but the tobacco/agri businesses doesnt seem to care about bees much. Indoors i believe that it is way safer than even many organic treatments - many products have been discontinued because imid is so effective with such a low Mammalian toxicity index.
My results are still lookin great - i think the low humidity/underwatering after the treatment helped a lot - kept the root rot/gnats away.
Its been more than a month and ill be finishing in 2-3 weeks, still goin strong - may be my best yield yet.
(I didnt spend much time color correcting - they are a nice healthy green but the lights r real bright ^.^)
My results are still lookin great - i think the low humidity/underwatering after the treatment helped a lot - kept the root rot/gnats away.
Its been more than a month and ill be finishing in 2-3 weeks, still goin strong - may be my best yield yet.
(I didnt spend much time color correcting - they are a nice healthy green but the lights r real bright ^.^)
The ag industry just sprays the products very early morning or later PM to avoid using it when bee's are currently active.
I believe the under-watering is the best advice. I think most of us spent some time looking at plants not drinking, wishing I would have given it less to start with.
If that makes sense
Smiley
I believe the under-watering is the best advice. I think most of us spent some time looking at plants not drinking, wishing I would have given it less to start with.
If that makes sense
Smiley
Ganja Goddess
New member
RG, please take no offense... I understand what you are saying. For me I can't use IMID. I'd rather scrap the grow.
I live on a property that has been kept natural for the last 35 years, and it's probably been clean longer than that.
We have an orchard that is about to be full of honey bee's, here to produce next years fruit. Can't do something that may cause them harm.
I'll post up how things are going after my inspection tomorrow
Hopefully the little root sucking bastards are dead... LOL
I live on a property that has been kept natural for the last 35 years, and it's probably been clean longer than that.
We have an orchard that is about to be full of honey bee's, here to produce next years fruit. Can't do something that may cause them harm.
I'll post up how things are going after my inspection tomorrow
Hopefully the little root sucking bastards are dead... LOL
RG, please take no offense... I understand what you are saying. For me I can't use IMID. I'd rather scrap the grow.
I live on a property that has been kept natural for the last 35 years, and it's probably been clean longer than that.
We have an orchard that is about to be full of honey bee's, here to produce next years fruit. Can't do something that may cause them harm.
I'll post up how things are going after my inspection tomorrow
Hopefully the little root sucking bastards are dead... LOL
No offense taken. Was just wondering why you didn't use it. These critters are tough to kill. Just curious: if you are growing indoors, how would that affect trees outside?
Ganja Goddess
New member
The 24 gallons of water from my rez has to go somewhere after a few days. I'm out in the country, anywhere I put it would be bad for something...No offense taken. Was just wondering why you didn't use it. These critters are tough to kill. Just curious: if you are growing indoors, how would that affect trees outside?
original Blues
Member
Well guys Ive had issues for 6months now with one thing after another, growing in coco drip feeding. I think im getting over it now after spending shit loads of cash trying different nutrients ro water. My last one coco and bubblers canna range 3 weeks in i saw a massive increasse in fliers on the 2nd week then the leaf discoloration started I had enough in a massive mood I smashed the whole room and setep and got rid painted the walls new vinyl floor I got some super fliy screens on all my air bricks around the house and I started from fresh marine ply built room waited a month b4 setting up the grow space incase of any eggs a few smoke bombs each week.
1st grow in the new room and fook me we have a few fliers I dispare and to top it off on the 1st night for drippers to come on I had made a school boy error I didnt check it worked ok rushing about and the whole 90lts got dumped into my 11ltr pots my res was moved to new location higher than the pots it syphoned itself!!
moisture control is the key as ive sticky fly traps have a few more stuck to them and my drippers give out different amounts so back to hand watering after spending 40 quid on a min controler for my new pump I swear im gonna make my self go grey worring about thes and to make it worse I hate losing!!
Once u have them sell house all your gear and start from fresh just what im doing if I carnt get a result this time round..
ive been growing on and off for years no pests fungies even with a few fliers knocking about no problems at all then june 2009 im plauged with problems!!
1st grow in the new room and fook me we have a few fliers I dispare and to top it off on the 1st night for drippers to come on I had made a school boy error I didnt check it worked ok rushing about and the whole 90lts got dumped into my 11ltr pots my res was moved to new location higher than the pots it syphoned itself!!
moisture control is the key as ive sticky fly traps have a few more stuck to them and my drippers give out different amounts so back to hand watering after spending 40 quid on a min controler for my new pump I swear im gonna make my self go grey worring about thes and to make it worse I hate losing!!
Once u have them sell house all your gear and start from fresh just what im doing if I carnt get a result this time round..
ive been growing on and off for years no pests fungies even with a few fliers knocking about no problems at all then june 2009 im plauged with problems!!
Jimbo: I have not bloomed with it yet, but I have had great results w/ Pura Vida nutrients with Super Plant Tonic from BMO (look on ebay) in soil + coco + perlite 2-gal containers. The Pura Vida tells you to use a lot, but I would recommend 1/2 to 2/3 strength, especially if using the SPT. As for roots: nothing I have tried really rejuvenates roots well once they have been badly damaged by aphids. As far as root tonics go in general, Rhizotonic (Canna), Roots Excelurator (H&G) and Voodoo Juice (AN) are probably at the top of the list - though all unbelievably expensive. I think that Rhizotonic is probably the most reasonable for how much they tell you to use but that Roots Excel and Voodoo are probably better at warding off pathogens when roots are sensitive - particularly the latter.
Ganja Goddess
New member
Room Update:
Plants are still not drinking water. Plants are wilted...
Scrapping the room, clean up begins tomorrow.
Once I clean, I plan to steam the whole room. That should kill the Tanks, crabs, and anything else that might have come along for the ride.
Plants are still not drinking water. Plants are wilted...
Scrapping the room, clean up begins tomorrow.
Once I clean, I plan to steam the whole room. That should kill the Tanks, crabs, and anything else that might have come along for the ride.
That's a shame. I am in the same boat. Plants not improving after treatment, despite no sign of any bugs. I believe something more is going on here, as mine only had a very few RAs. I'm thinking that these things transmit other diseases, perhaps pythium? I'm perplexed. Plants not drinking, and wilted. Tops still trying to grow, but bottoms are getting worse. I'm disgusted. $300 in seeds down the drain, and a month wasted. I'm afraid to even use my room again, as last 2 grows have been disasters. And I had sterilized everything with "physan 20", which is nasty stuff and supposed to do the trick. I know you won't want to use that
I'm besides myself with this crap, and really am out of ideas. These were looking fine a week ago, now disaster.
Last edited:
smokesalot420
Member
I feel for everyone starting completely over as it's what I did last year..... I refuse to give up this year and it seems that the Imid (in the Bayer Fruit and Veggie) is working on all but one plant that was treated.... I am unsure if the infestation on that plant was already too far along or if the RA's were at a stage in which the Imid wasn't as effective. I destroyed the plant in question but the rest of my plants are free of new bugs.
I used the Bayer in Veg, followed it with a Azatrol root drench a week later and a Pyrethrum TR bomb a few days after that. I repeated the Azatrol root drench the second week of flower along with another Pyrethrum TR bomb week 3 of flower and have SEEMED to stop their life cycle in my remaining plants in my veg and flowering tents.
Here are a couple more good reads on these things, I figure the more info we have from professionals who have more resources then I do the better!
http://www.igrowhydro.com/InfoSheets/InfoSheet-RootAphids.pdf
http://ccesuffolk.org/assets/galleries/Agriculture/Imidacloprid-BMP-Greenhouses-and-Nurseries.pdf
Do not give up hope! I am anxious to try out the 35 percent H202 and Botanigard but will not be able to for another 2 weeks or so......
I used the Bayer in Veg, followed it with a Azatrol root drench a week later and a Pyrethrum TR bomb a few days after that. I repeated the Azatrol root drench the second week of flower along with another Pyrethrum TR bomb week 3 of flower and have SEEMED to stop their life cycle in my remaining plants in my veg and flowering tents.
Here are a couple more good reads on these things, I figure the more info we have from professionals who have more resources then I do the better!
http://www.igrowhydro.com/InfoSheets/InfoSheet-RootAphids.pdf
http://ccesuffolk.org/assets/galleries/Agriculture/Imidacloprid-BMP-Greenhouses-and-Nurseries.pdf
Do not give up hope! I am anxious to try out the 35 percent H202 and Botanigard but will not be able to for another 2 weeks or so......
That's a shame. I am in the same boat. Plants not improving after treatment, despite no sign of any bugs. I believe something more is going on here, as mine only had a very few RAs. I'm thinking that these things transmit other diseases, perhaps pythium? I'm perplexed. Plants not drinking, and wilted. Tops still trying to grow, but bottoms are getting worse. I'm disgusted. $300 in seeds down the drain, and a month wasted. I'm afraid to even use my room again, as last 2 grows have been disasters. And I had sterilized everything with "physan 20", which is nasty stuff and supposed to do the trick. I know you won't want to use that
I'm besides myself with this crap, and really am out of ideas. These were looking fine a week ago, now disaster.
Sorry to hear. I was lucky I was able to do a early harvest but my yield and quality was greatly impacted. Some one else here touched on what I think maybe affecting you. Your ladies got a virus or some type of destructive pathogen. I also will be using the imid (Bayer Products) in vegging and not sweating it.
I feel for everyone still battling. I have done successful war with the bugs, but found that viral problems have lingered. I am pretty confident that I am dealing with a viral infection + perhaps fungal or bacterial as well. This is not simply "pythium" as I know it. In most cases in my grow the roots do not become "rotted" - slimy and dead. With that sort of classic pythium I have had good experience in the past with H2O2 and hygrozyme - killing pathogens, dissolving the roots and growing new, fresh ones from the tips where they were still alive. In this case it seems to me that the roots instead become paralyzed - coated with some brown, rusty/gloppy looking stuff. They seem alive, and to otherwise still function but not to grow or regenerate a nice white color and fuzzy root hairs. It seems that often the problem is that the plant has grown too far at this stage to do well with a damaged, no-longer-growing root system.
So far as I can tell, the viruses that RAs act as a vector for are the worst part of their existence - people who do not have trouble with the viruses (something about how they take care of their plants, the environment they are in etc, or are lucky enough not to have them carried by the RAs) do not seem to have trouble with the root aphids or seem to be able to eliminate them acceptably well if they do. Those of us with plant viruses delivered by RAs, however, are walking thin ice, as most viruses are perpetuated through: cloning (both the cuttings themselves and potentially any others taken with the same blade will likely be infected), many sucking bugs (aphids etc), fungus gnats, and even pollen/seeds and SMOKING contaminated bud around your plants. The Tobacco Mosaic virus (one of the most common of the many mosaic viruses) can even be spread by smoking cigarettes around your plants or dealing with the plants with tobacco residue on your hands (though as best as I can tell the viruses only get onto the plant through a wound).
From a small amount of online research, I think the most common viruses affecting indoor grows are: Hemp Streak Virus and the various mosaic viruses.
If your necrotic spots have a yellowish-green or yellow "halo" around them - it is likely HSV.
In either case, as I posted before: I think that Foliar BLOOM (Advanced Floriculture - yellow bottles), Bud Factor X (AN - previously 5X more dilute and called Scorpion Juice), Messenger (foliar spray additive - harpin protein) and Aspirin (Acetylsalicylic Acid) are our best potential first lines of defense against infection/disease. Use aspirin in foliar application at 325 mg (one tablet) per gallon of spray mix. I think that you can water it in as well, but I am not sure the rate - I think 325 mg/gal is a good place to start, though, and you probably will not hurt the plants with even far stronger applications. I think that each of us with a viral infection should try two of the products side-by-side to compare results. I am trying Bud Factor X and Foliar BLOOM. Note: it is best to apply these products when plants are still healthy; once plant health is badly compromised it is unlikely these will come to the rescue.
As best as I can tell, the decision of whether or not to scrap a badly infected round should be based on the extent of root damage done (typically evidenced by plants refusing to drink or grow) and also whether or not a virus has been contracted - unfortunately this is not always evident until RAs have been successfully eliminated/dramatically reduced, which is often after extensive chem application and after time has passed. Goddess, I think you are quite keen to have set a time-limit from when you first discovered the problem to see how they respond to chem applications and how soon they seem to be bouncing back. It is far to easy to get lulled into a waiting-game where the plants are not getting better fast enough, but small improvements and more time invested keep preventing you from scrapping them. I went to war to save the round that was going when I first found out about the aphids and have still not gone into bloom yet. They are far too large, now for the system and yet still are unhealthy - seemingly getting worse at this point. I wish I had not continued for two months trying to fight the problem, waiting for health to return before I clicked into bloom, as I could have almost finished a new, healthy round by now and I am more worried than ever that they just might not make it through the stress of transition to 12/12.
Meanwhile, I have started another round in soil in smart pots in the closet that did well last time. Everything is looking amazing in there except for some random "signs" that almost seemed insignificant at first (a bit of intervenal chlorosis on older, lower leaves -only about one leaf per plant) but which are now turning into acute intervenal necrosis on said leaves and are showing up in more places. I am thinking that there are likely a few aphids in each pot, as per recent posts by others - probably just enough to deliver the virus and cause enough stress to the plant to cause it to show symptoms. I had hit them so heavily when they were in smaller containers that I did not keep up with control treatment through VEG - I have not seen fliers and I am using smart pots and I hit them heavy with the Bayer CIK early on(and have not seen a crawler or flier since), so I figured things were gravy and did not follow my own advice to follow up soon after with a secondary control chem or nematodes. - Stupid idea.
Though just days ago I had been thinking the intervenal chlorosis I was seeing on just a few leaves on just a few plants was something else - perhaps the virus showing symptoms - I am now leaning more strongly toward a few aphids still being around, perhaps delivering the virus. I just treated with heavy Bayer Complete Insect Killer again today (~ 40 mL/gal, mostly saturating the soil) and will report back (as I am curious myself whether there were bugs doing damage or if plants are virally infected and just now, in late VEG, showing signs). Spraying with Foliar Bloom and Bud Factor X - two separate groups - so far has not provided conclusive results. The one that had the worst "signs"/problems, with sickly coloration and necrosis on many leaves was the largest/healthiest plant initially; it seemed to respond negatively to the "Foliar BLOOM" spray, looking worse the next day. The others sprayed seemed normal/unchanged except for ONE of the other ones sprayed with Foliar BLOOM - it has a SMALL random discoloration-splotch of yellowish-green (looks almost like mutation) on one of its leaves after the spray. A few others in other areas (different systems) also seem to have this symptom, but only about 4 plants total - one of which is a mother that has it on MANY leaves. It seems to have been induced in each case by a foliar spray of one sort or another, though seemingly not as a result of a particular ingredient (only one out of many plants in each areas showed the symptom, and it seems to have been induced by totally different foliar sprays - one with Botanigard, another with Foliar BLOOM).
I would NOT recommend foliar spraying with Botanigard - it seems to cause general unhappiness on leaves with a droopy/limpy kind of look. It has petroleum products in it, though, so perhaps that is the cause (maybeit needs to be washed off after application) If any one else has tried it please post results.
So far as I can tell, the viruses that RAs act as a vector for are the worst part of their existence - people who do not have trouble with the viruses (something about how they take care of their plants, the environment they are in etc, or are lucky enough not to have them carried by the RAs) do not seem to have trouble with the root aphids or seem to be able to eliminate them acceptably well if they do. Those of us with plant viruses delivered by RAs, however, are walking thin ice, as most viruses are perpetuated through: cloning (both the cuttings themselves and potentially any others taken with the same blade will likely be infected), many sucking bugs (aphids etc), fungus gnats, and even pollen/seeds and SMOKING contaminated bud around your plants. The Tobacco Mosaic virus (one of the most common of the many mosaic viruses) can even be spread by smoking cigarettes around your plants or dealing with the plants with tobacco residue on your hands (though as best as I can tell the viruses only get onto the plant through a wound).
From a small amount of online research, I think the most common viruses affecting indoor grows are: Hemp Streak Virus and the various mosaic viruses.
If your necrotic spots have a yellowish-green or yellow "halo" around them - it is likely HSV.
In either case, as I posted before: I think that Foliar BLOOM (Advanced Floriculture - yellow bottles), Bud Factor X (AN - previously 5X more dilute and called Scorpion Juice), Messenger (foliar spray additive - harpin protein) and Aspirin (Acetylsalicylic Acid) are our best potential first lines of defense against infection/disease. Use aspirin in foliar application at 325 mg (one tablet) per gallon of spray mix. I think that you can water it in as well, but I am not sure the rate - I think 325 mg/gal is a good place to start, though, and you probably will not hurt the plants with even far stronger applications. I think that each of us with a viral infection should try two of the products side-by-side to compare results. I am trying Bud Factor X and Foliar BLOOM. Note: it is best to apply these products when plants are still healthy; once plant health is badly compromised it is unlikely these will come to the rescue.
As best as I can tell, the decision of whether or not to scrap a badly infected round should be based on the extent of root damage done (typically evidenced by plants refusing to drink or grow) and also whether or not a virus has been contracted - unfortunately this is not always evident until RAs have been successfully eliminated/dramatically reduced, which is often after extensive chem application and after time has passed. Goddess, I think you are quite keen to have set a time-limit from when you first discovered the problem to see how they respond to chem applications and how soon they seem to be bouncing back. It is far to easy to get lulled into a waiting-game where the plants are not getting better fast enough, but small improvements and more time invested keep preventing you from scrapping them. I went to war to save the round that was going when I first found out about the aphids and have still not gone into bloom yet. They are far too large, now for the system and yet still are unhealthy - seemingly getting worse at this point. I wish I had not continued for two months trying to fight the problem, waiting for health to return before I clicked into bloom, as I could have almost finished a new, healthy round by now and I am more worried than ever that they just might not make it through the stress of transition to 12/12.
Meanwhile, I have started another round in soil in smart pots in the closet that did well last time. Everything is looking amazing in there except for some random "signs" that almost seemed insignificant at first (a bit of intervenal chlorosis on older, lower leaves -only about one leaf per plant) but which are now turning into acute intervenal necrosis on said leaves and are showing up in more places. I am thinking that there are likely a few aphids in each pot, as per recent posts by others - probably just enough to deliver the virus and cause enough stress to the plant to cause it to show symptoms. I had hit them so heavily when they were in smaller containers that I did not keep up with control treatment through VEG - I have not seen fliers and I am using smart pots and I hit them heavy with the Bayer CIK early on(and have not seen a crawler or flier since), so I figured things were gravy and did not follow my own advice to follow up soon after with a secondary control chem or nematodes. - Stupid idea.
Though just days ago I had been thinking the intervenal chlorosis I was seeing on just a few leaves on just a few plants was something else - perhaps the virus showing symptoms - I am now leaning more strongly toward a few aphids still being around, perhaps delivering the virus. I just treated with heavy Bayer Complete Insect Killer again today (~ 40 mL/gal, mostly saturating the soil) and will report back (as I am curious myself whether there were bugs doing damage or if plants are virally infected and just now, in late VEG, showing signs). Spraying with Foliar Bloom and Bud Factor X - two separate groups - so far has not provided conclusive results. The one that had the worst "signs"/problems, with sickly coloration and necrosis on many leaves was the largest/healthiest plant initially; it seemed to respond negatively to the "Foliar BLOOM" spray, looking worse the next day. The others sprayed seemed normal/unchanged except for ONE of the other ones sprayed with Foliar BLOOM - it has a SMALL random discoloration-splotch of yellowish-green (looks almost like mutation) on one of its leaves after the spray. A few others in other areas (different systems) also seem to have this symptom, but only about 4 plants total - one of which is a mother that has it on MANY leaves. It seems to have been induced in each case by a foliar spray of one sort or another, though seemingly not as a result of a particular ingredient (only one out of many plants in each areas showed the symptom, and it seems to have been induced by totally different foliar sprays - one with Botanigard, another with Foliar BLOOM).
I would NOT recommend foliar spraying with Botanigard - it seems to cause general unhappiness on leaves with a droopy/limpy kind of look. It has petroleum products in it, though, so perhaps that is the cause (maybeit needs to be washed off after application) If any one else has tried it please post results.
Good post Spleebale. I am not sure if we are dealing with a virus or spores. I am leaning towards spores, as I put some damaged leaves under the microscope, and am seeing some tiny white particles, and also some fungus looking things, but very small and can't be seen without magnification. Not obvious like powdery mildew. I just sprayed everything with Greencure using Dutch Master Penetrator. If any positive result, will post. I am going to try everything before giving up. If I scrap this grow and start over, I'm afraid the problem will return. I think perhaps my whole place might be contaminated with spores of some sort. I had sprayed the whole grow area with Physan 20 prior to this new run, but with spores, they are everywhere. They get into the ventilation system, etc. Pythium is also spores. It usually starts in hydro, or a bubble cloner, which I had here. This might possibly be a source of pythium. Pythium is usually associated with hydro (I'm in coco), but if the spores are in your place, they will jump to all the plants, with death of the leaves from the bottom up, which is what is happening in my case. The root aphids are dead, but something else is definitely lingering. They do have laboratories where you can send samples for analysis, and they can tell exactly what it is, but don't know if this is secure. I am also looking into something called "Mycostop". Sounds promising. You might want to Google it. I'm not starting anything new until I know what this is. Don't want to waste any more $200 seed packs. I will look into the things you suggested and talk to the guy in the hydro store. Meanwhile, I strongly recommend a microscope to check the dead tissue. See if you see any spores or white/greyish fungal looking stuff. Check some new growth under the scope to compare. I am also spraying plants with Floralicious, which is sea kelp. It seems to mitigate the yellowing a bit, but not a cure all. I'm hoping it's not necessary to change locations to eliminate this problem, but it may be. This has basically wasted my last 6 months. I brought in one harvest, but it was maybe 25% normal size.
Pitiful.
Good luck. I feel eventually we will figure this out, but it ain't easy.
Pitiful.
Good luck. I feel eventually we will figure this out, but it ain't easy.
Gotta go to bed, but here is some info on Mycostop:
Mycostop Biofungicide
Has been extensively tested in greenhouse and nursery trials for control of root rot organisms such as "Fusarium" fungi, "Alternaria", "Phomopsis" and suppresses "Rhizoctonia" damping-off, "Botrytis" grey mold and "Pythium" and "Phytophora" root rots in the greenhouse. MAY NOT BE TANK MIXED WITH ANY OTHER PESTICIDES OR CONCENTRATED FERTILIZER SOLUTIONS. For seed treatment, use 2-8 g/kg. of seed. For established plants, use 1-2 g./100sq. ft. Ask for technical manual. Contains 30% "Streptomyces griseoviridis" Strain K61. 70% inert ingredients. Registered on vegetables & ornamentals. We have used this product in our greenhouse with resounding success. Highly recommended. MUST BE SHIPPED 2ND DAY AIR!
Mycostop Biofungicide
Has been extensively tested in greenhouse and nursery trials for control of root rot organisms such as "Fusarium" fungi, "Alternaria", "Phomopsis" and suppresses "Rhizoctonia" damping-off, "Botrytis" grey mold and "Pythium" and "Phytophora" root rots in the greenhouse. MAY NOT BE TANK MIXED WITH ANY OTHER PESTICIDES OR CONCENTRATED FERTILIZER SOLUTIONS. For seed treatment, use 2-8 g/kg. of seed. For established plants, use 1-2 g./100sq. ft. Ask for technical manual. Contains 30% "Streptomyces griseoviridis" Strain K61. 70% inert ingredients. Registered on vegetables & ornamentals. We have used this product in our greenhouse with resounding success. Highly recommended. MUST BE SHIPPED 2ND DAY AIR!
Ganja Goddess
New member
Splee & RG...
Your info is priceless... My plants actually got worse after getting the visible mites off the roots. Go figure... I wonder if when dying the RA emit a plant toxin... Because my plants sure did go downhill quickly after removing the mites. I expected some stress, but mine went into total failure. Then wilted the next day.
I initially thought about just scrubbing the room with bleach... After reading RG's post that they came back after a treatment with P20. I'll take a different approach.
I'm going to clean with my steam cleaner. Top to bottom.. I know steam will wipe out any spores or micro organisms... Everything coming out of that room will be steamed before going outside. My steamer came with a wide steam plate, it'll take time to do. But having to go thru this on another grow would suck.
I'm kinda tossing around the idea of painting again too. I'm sure the steam will peel or damage some painted areas. We'll wait to see how how the paint responds.
Next run, I'm moving to a different room. Probably running the Botaniguard as a prophylactic measure. I have it on the way anyway might as well use it. Any RA's go into my rez I want them to drop dead asap. Hopefully the botaniguard will do that.
I think my leaves are too far gone to pop under my microscope, but I'll look for the white spores...
Your info is priceless... My plants actually got worse after getting the visible mites off the roots. Go figure... I wonder if when dying the RA emit a plant toxin... Because my plants sure did go downhill quickly after removing the mites. I expected some stress, but mine went into total failure. Then wilted the next day.
I initially thought about just scrubbing the room with bleach... After reading RG's post that they came back after a treatment with P20. I'll take a different approach.
I'm going to clean with my steam cleaner. Top to bottom.. I know steam will wipe out any spores or micro organisms... Everything coming out of that room will be steamed before going outside. My steamer came with a wide steam plate, it'll take time to do. But having to go thru this on another grow would suck.
I'm kinda tossing around the idea of painting again too. I'm sure the steam will peel or damage some painted areas. We'll wait to see how how the paint responds.
Next run, I'm moving to a different room. Probably running the Botaniguard as a prophylactic measure. I have it on the way anyway might as well use it. Any RA's go into my rez I want them to drop dead asap. Hopefully the botaniguard will do that.
I think my leaves are too far gone to pop under my microscope, but I'll look for the white spores...
I seen this on my plants before I harvested. Little off white or creamish yellow color. Looked like circles or drops. I wondered what these were but never really looked at a plant under a scope so I had no idea what I was looking at. These "spots" need to be investigated and everyone who can should look for these. If plants that recover does not show these "drops" and the plants that do not recover does have these, that would show enough correlation for me to prove that the "drops" are some type pathogen from the RA. This is one of the truly most informative thread around!!!
I fear the huge infestation of these ugly little monsters is simply a result of all the circulating of clones. We have set up a perfect situation for the root aphid epidemic and I would really encourage everyone to inspect any clones they buy anywhere! Get cuttings and root them yourself.. buy seeds! BEWARE this year of what you buy!..
On a lighter note..
Hope springs eternal!! and safer than chemicals. It seems these nasty critters have a few "natural enemies"
"There are natural enemies that can manage the population of rice root aphids. Both the nymphs and adults are parasitized by a small braconid wasp and a mermithid nematode and are preyed upon by lady beetles."
http://www.pelletlab.com/beneficial_insects?gclid=COmQtsSm-qACFRRUgwodvVxkEQ
http://www.organicgardeninfo.com/braconid-wasp.html
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/index.html
On a lighter note..
Hope springs eternal!! and safer than chemicals. It seems these nasty critters have a few "natural enemies"
"There are natural enemies that can manage the population of rice root aphids. Both the nymphs and adults are parasitized by a small braconid wasp and a mermithid nematode and are preyed upon by lady beetles."
http://www.pelletlab.com/beneficial_insects?gclid=COmQtsSm-qACFRRUgwodvVxkEQ
http://www.organicgardeninfo.com/braconid-wasp.html
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/index.html
Good thread still. I definitely am reading some other posts that exhibit the same issues Ive seen. I concur that A) Aphids bring pathogens, not just root damage and B) a Pythium-like issue appears on the roots. The pythium issue is almost "fuzzy" and it's easily disturbed from the roots just by agitation. Part of me wonders if this isn't the Strange Slime (brown algae) that Ive been dealing with on and off for a couple years. Check the sticky thread here in the Infirmary about it.
On a positive note, the Malathion 50 spray I mentioned before actually seems to have worked, at least somewhat. I haven't seen a bug in my netpots since I used it! I sprayed the lower stem/trunk and down into the netpots. The solution ran down onto the roots directly since my only medium is hydroton in 3" netpots. Rest of the roots are exposed or underwater in my fence posts. I plan to add a couple of Malathion 50 sprays into my preventative schedule for next crop. I've also seriously upped my DO content with a big ass air pump to help fight off the possible pythium and added AquaShield back to my water. The Aquashield (subtillus) and very high DO should help root health in the future, aphids or not. Im also considering adding a 1/10hp chiller. Im looking at it like, if I can't get rid of this aphid issue entirely then I NEED to give the roots the most perfect growing environment possible. I can't skimp or cut corners anywhere while this is an issue. I think much of the issues seen are combinations of existing problems being made much worse by root aphid/fungus gnat infestations.
Keep up the good work all and keep posting your results!
On a positive note, the Malathion 50 spray I mentioned before actually seems to have worked, at least somewhat. I haven't seen a bug in my netpots since I used it! I sprayed the lower stem/trunk and down into the netpots. The solution ran down onto the roots directly since my only medium is hydroton in 3" netpots. Rest of the roots are exposed or underwater in my fence posts. I plan to add a couple of Malathion 50 sprays into my preventative schedule for next crop. I've also seriously upped my DO content with a big ass air pump to help fight off the possible pythium and added AquaShield back to my water. The Aquashield (subtillus) and very high DO should help root health in the future, aphids or not. Im also considering adding a 1/10hp chiller. Im looking at it like, if I can't get rid of this aphid issue entirely then I NEED to give the roots the most perfect growing environment possible. I can't skimp or cut corners anywhere while this is an issue. I think much of the issues seen are combinations of existing problems being made much worse by root aphid/fungus gnat infestations.
Keep up the good work all and keep posting your results!
