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    Hash oil techniques and solvents for non BHO hash oil?

    OK, let me preface this by saying, no I am not a chemist, and yes, just using solvents bought cheaply can make for some level of risk and toxicity, but done properly, that risk should be very minimal I don't wanna get into the inevitable "OMG never touch this random toxic thing!" kind of posts. If you don't feel comfortable with product made the way its being discussed in the thread, fine, but we don't need to hear that over and over I'm just interested in cheap, easy and relatively safe ways to make concentrates, from our actual experiences.

    Now I'm no grower or expert either, but I know what I've tried and how it worked. I also know some of the hazards and pitfalls and have put myself at considerable risk over the years I've cooked harder drugs in the past, have over 10 years clean now, but I just wanna stress, that yes, safety matters to me, but cost effectiveness, ease and product results are what matter most to me For me, this can be recreational but is primarily a medicine, and I have to make it count, because I can't afford to just buy all I need as some can.

    I primarily started experimenting because I got a friend with good source of cheap trim and bottom leaf from a volume grower I live in a trailer, so bubble hash is very impractical, as i have no freezer, just a slot that keeps things frozen sort of and ices over. So we pick the stuff for the buds and smoke em I don't see the point in wasting buds making oils I hear the "quality in is quality out" mantra and its somewhat valid, but i like the buds as they are and even bottom leaf alone (from quality strain plants) has enough cannibanoids to make this worthwhile. Plus, for me, the more bottom leaf the better, as it adds all that wonderful CBD to the product, and while yield is lower with leaf, Id argue that potency isn't as big a deal as folks say IMO, you get just as high off a similar amount, its just buds are tastier, higher yield and sure maybe somewhat more potent, but not so it matters to me.

    Anyway, that said, we do blow BHO when we can afford to and when we can get together to do it, we do it outside safely as we can, but I can tell you other than quality of product, I have nothing I like about the process.

    So I've done QWISO many times over the years and never come up with a product you could put in a dabber that didn't look black and taste nasty I hear cold is key, tried it, still was never happy with vaping the end product, stony, but bad nasty taste and dark color Would consider trying activated charcoal, but yeah, just never found this to make anything better than smoking quality Throw it on a bud, smoke it, then it taste fine.

    So, recently I tried three batches with three paint store solvents, each 1 US quart and all around $10usd each, Denatured Alcohol (basically 90% ethyl, 10% methyl to make it relatively anhydrous), VM&P Naptha (Zippo Fuel essentially or paint and varnish thinner), and Acetone. All branded Sunnyside, available with ease locally, and all evap cleanly Yes, again, I know its industrial grade, but ease and cost count to some of us, and AFAIK, its safe, no residual solvent smells, tastes. Id bet some cash a commercial lab would test my stuff and find it acceptable as far as end product. I think the real hazard here is heated purging and fume inhalation. Heated purging is a necessity for me, as I live in trailer with cats Air evapping would not only expose my buddies to fumes, but they'd be sure to spill sticky product.

    Simple method, keep weed and jar and solvent (except Naptha) in top slot of fridge at freezing temp, cold as I can couple hours, Naptha you warm in a water bath for the extraction, comes in a nice metal can, easily fit in my rice cooker I use for purging. I don't eat it so no de-carbing, and I think the heated purge does some of it anyway, but also no grinding, just dry crumbled de-stemmed stuff is ideal Stems contribute little and just act like sponges retaining solvent and reducing yields. Soaks should be short as possible with gentle agitations and and washes I do not separate the washes, but rather evap them together. Then I simply strain it off with a screen and coffee filter (screen over filter to keep plant material out of coffee filter), this allows you to collect kief from filter later and makes it filter quicker.

    I think purging is where the health risk is The fumes can be awful. Denatured alcohol is better, though not at all pleasant, its only 10% toxic by volume anyway. Naptha I almost like the smell of, but would you willingly huff gas? Sure boiling naptha is awful for ya, not to mention flammable as hell, and acetone is the worst! Eventually I wanna build a closed system so as to recover solvents and for safety. In any case, for now I boil in a rice cooker on high outdoors I set a flat screen on the pan, with a small desk fan on top for weight and to blow fumes and walk away till about 2/3 is purged, usually about 20 min, I assume around 100c Then I take it on my lap with the fan to agitate and of course hot pads on, just slowly agitating as it boils off When it gets very thick, you can let it go to "warm" to finish and its good to stir and pop bubbles the help the purge You can also use a few drops of distilled water, because it boils at higher temp than the solvents, and helps finish the purge.

    So the results I got were, that DN Alcohol, had highest yield, but lowest taste and color quality, the potency was very close, but way too much chlorophyll and sugars got through, not at all vapable.

    Naptha made a nice product, with decent yield, deep brown in color Not "good taste" but entirely vapable and some who tried it liked it, but not me. :(

    Acetone had the lowest yield, but I also had less than a bottle and less weed, but that cant account for the small yield entirely. I used the same weed and like 2/3 as much weed and solvent, and came out with slightly less than half as much. May try longer soak in fridge, but am open to suggestions? The quality tho! Very potent and tasty! A delight to vape, damn near BHO quality, just bit darker brown and nice and translucent.

    Since writing the above I have read more about filtration maybe being the problem with alcohol and taste? It was suggested to use a 0 micron filter or less, but IDK, where to get cheaply? Experience anyone? Definitely willing to experiment more with it, as I get a usable product, just wanna refine for taste.

    So anyway, my goal was a nice oil, vapes and tastes like BHO without the vessel, cost and risk of BHO Acetone is my new solvent of choice, because I got exactly that, but the whole purpose of this thread was to share experience, and develop methods to improve on, so have at please, I look forward to learning!

    #2
    That was a very interesting post. I also wish to make my own CO but these solvents bother me a little. I have yet to attempt this on my own, but after vast research I have decided on using Everclear. I found a good video on You Tube to make a small batch of RSO, and it seems reasonably safe. I of course can attest to taste, but I will likely use it in a cookie recipe I use now with trim and cannabutter. I hope this helps someone.

    Link to video

    Comment


      #3
      Oops, correction. I cannot attest to the taste. Sorry!

      Comment


        #4
        Could you at least pick-up/build a still capable of cleaning said solvents?

        I'm afraid you'll be quite surprised at what will show up on a toxicity report. Anyone out there done this with sunnyside and had the extract tested? There's a reason food and pharmaceutical grade solvents are much more expensive.
        Tending Your Reservoir for a Full pH Swing and Cleaner Cannabis (A Healthier Approach to Hydroponic Cannabis)
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        DIY Super Inexpensive HEPA Filtration
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        Comment


          #5
          I just got another bottle of acetone Was gonna give toluene a try, and still plan to, but none at close store, have to drive a little. Wanna try and up the yield Gonna do two full washes, and a short soak on each of 20 min, no more than 30, but soaking in the freezer, no real agitation and see what I get. Beauty of it, is I get always at least a smokable product if not vapable.

          Comment


            #6
            Such cans of denatured alcohol are almost always SD-1 or SD-3A alcohol with an equal volume of methanol. In other words, expect at least 50% methyl alcohol from hardware stores.

            Naphtha in the can is usually partially high boilers that will not evaporate easily. The lower boiling portion is acceptable, if it's pure alkanes.

            Toluene is not the best residual solvent because larger amounts may cause drain bamage. Acetone has been a hot button topic here, at times.
            In the clinical field, the practical application of these substances must be awaited with the usual necessary patience. - Roger Adams
            Marihuana
            February 19, 1942

            Comment


              #7
              Mark butane is not all that expensive if you order a mastercase online (or even just 12 packs sometimes). As Joe points out, you are messing with residuals that are very hard to boil off. Butane is much easier to purge and still end up with a nice product to vape. Also, you cannot pull out more than the trichomes allow for. It sounds like what you made so far is already chock full of chlorphyll and waxes. Maybe give chilled butanr another chance? Frankly, you have no idea what you are inhaling right now.
              Everything is connected

              Comment


                #8
                Butane is 3x the cost, requires and assistant and is more dangerous should a mistake be made. Bad batch of QWISO or similar = fixable, bad BHO = loss.

                I also already told everyone we do BHO when we can, this is additional. None of this is commercial, there are no sales, just personal use, and donation for other medical patients, and when I say donation I mean not for money, just for free.

                When I say butane is less safe, I say it with some experience I have had a pyrex full of boiling naptha break on a hot burner and flash, now it was back in the day and it was pseudo in the beaker, but despite the scare, fire was easily manageable and the wife was never the wiser (in the kitchen mind you).

                So my point is, if you purge correctly, maybe add a few drops of distilled toward the end of the purge, because if it boils off, the solvents go at lower temps.

                I'd bet a fat stack of cash, you'd be exposed to far more naptha using a Zippo for a week than you would vaping 10G of my oil, more acetone using nail polish remover in one sitting than in 10G of my oil. As I said, I know folks been doing this for years to no known ill effect.

                So yeah, BHO when we can, but there's times, other oil makes sense, my goal is to do it well as can be done. Eventually i will rig a still for recovery, but not there just yet.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by G.O. Joe View Post
                  Such cans of denatured alcohol are almost always SD-1 or SD-3A alcohol with an equal volume of methanol. In other words, expect at least 50% methyl alcohol from hardware stores.

                  Naphtha in the can is usually partially high boilers that will not evaporate easily. The lower boiling portion is acceptable, if it's pure alkanes.

                  Toluene is not the best residual solvent because larger amounts may cause drain bamage. Acetone has been a hot button topic here, at times.
                  Thus using VM&P Naptha, which is purposefully lighter so as to make a fast drying paint thinner.

                  Again, purge, purge, purge! Do that well and at worst, the amunt f residuals should be minuscule.

                  Am I gonna claim total safety? Not at all, but I would say, many people in boat building locally inhale more of all of this stuff than I ever will, even with the masks.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by markjs View Post
                    Eventually i will rig a still for recovery, but not there just yet.
                    Work toward a vacuum still and use ethanol. Lovely extracts.
                    Tending Your Reservoir for a Full pH Swing and Cleaner Cannabis (A Healthier Approach to Hydroponic Cannabis)
                    DIY STS Mixing/Using Guide for Feminized Pollen/Seeds
                    DIY Super Inexpensive HEPA Filtration
                    6-Second Pain Relief for Arthritic and Joint Pain
                    8-Minute CBD Test
                    Cool and Dry Flowering Discussion Thread

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Mark, my apologies, I guess acetone has been used for a while to extract. Sounds like the safest of the three you tried and sounds like you know how to purge it well, maybe you have a winner there for your situation.
                      Also i dunno what your bho tech is but it sounds suspicious. Breaking boiling-naptha filled pyrex dish on a burner? You should not be heating bho that high, ever. Also naptha and butane are not the same thing.
                      Everything is connected

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by G.O. Joe View Post
                        Such cans of denatured alcohol are almost always SD-1 or SD-3A alcohol with an equal volume of methanol. In other words, expect at least 50% methyl alcohol from hardware stores.

                        Naphtha in the can is usually partially high boilers that will not evaporate easily. The lower boiling portion is acceptable, if it's pure alkanes.

                        Toluene is not the best residual solvent because larger amounts may cause drain bamage. Acetone has been a hot button topic here, at times.
                        Originally posted by markjs View Post
                        Thus using VM&P Naptha, which is purposefully lighter so as to make a fast drying paint thinner.

                        Again, purge, purge, purge! Do that well and at worst, the amunt f residuals should be minuscule.

                        Am I gonna claim total safety? Not at all, but I would say, many people in boat building locally inhale more of all of this stuff than I ever will, even with the masks.

                        The straight answer as usual was delivered succinctly by G.O. Joe, and on just one point I'll present a clear 360 factual up skirt to your slough.



                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha#Types

                        "Various qualifiers have been added to the term "naphtha" by various sources in an effort to make it more specific:

                        One source[9] differentiates by boiling point:

                        Light naphtha is the fraction boiling between 30 °C and 90 °C and consists of molecules with 5–6 carbon atoms. Heavy naphtha boils between 90 °C and 200 °C and consists of molecules with 6–12 carbons.

                        Another source[10] differentiates light and heavy based on hydrocarbon structure:

                        Light [is] a mixture consisting mainly of straight-chained and cyclic aliphatic hydrocarbons having from five to nine carbon atoms per molecule. Heavy [is] a mixture consisting mainly of straight-chained and cyclic aliphatic hydrocarbons having from seven to nine carbons per molecule.

                        Both of these are useful definitions, but they are incompatible with one another. These terms are also sufficiently broad that they are not widely useful."



                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_ether

                        "Petroleum ether is the petroleum fraction consisting of aliphatic hydrocarbons and boiling in the range 35‒60 °C; commonly used as a laboratory solvent.[4] The term ether is used only figuratively, signifying extreme lightness and volatility.

                        Properties
                        The very lightest, most volatile liquid hydrocarbon solvents that can be bought from laboratory chemical suppliers may also be offered under the name petroleum ether. Petroleum ether consists mainly of aliphatic hydrocarbons and is usually low on aromatics. It is commonly hydrodesulfurized and may be hydrogenated to reduce the amount of aromatic and other unsaturated hydrocarbons. [B]Petroleum ether bears normally a descriptive suffix giving the boiling range. Thus, from the leading international laboratory chemical suppliers it is possible to buy various petroleum ethers with boiling ranges such as 30-50 °C, 40-60 °C, 50-70 °C, 60-80 °C, etc. In the United States, laboratory grade aliphatic hydrocarbon solvents with boiling ranges as high as 100-140 °C may be called petroleum ether, rather than petroleum spirit.[5][/I]

                        It is not advisable to employ a fraction with a wider boiling point range than 20 °C, because of possible loss of the more volatile portion during its use in recrystallisation, etc. and consequent different solubility relations of the higher boiling residue.[6]"



                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrol...tha#Other_uses

                        "Sometimes the specialty naphthas are called petroleum ether, petroleum spirits, mineral spirits, paraffin, benzine, hexanes, ligroin, white oil or white gas, painters naphtha, refined solvent naphtha and Varnish makers' & painters' naphtha (VM&P) . The best way to determine the boiling range and other compositional characteristics of any of the specialty naphthas is to read the Safety Data Sheet (SDS) for the specific naphtha of interest."



                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_benzine

                        "Petroleum benzine is a hydrocarbon based solvent mixture that is classified by its physical properties (e.g. boiling point, vapor pressure) rather than a specific chemical composition, often obfuscating distinction within the long list of petroleum distillate solvent mixtures: mineral spirits, naphtha, white spirits, petroleum spirits, turps substitute, mineral turpentine, petroleum benzine, petroleum ether, ligroin, and Stoddard Solvent. The chemical composition of a petroleum distillate can also be modified to afford a solvent with reduced concentration of unsaturated hydrocarbons, i.e. alkenes, by hydrotreating and/or reduced aromatics, e.g. benzene, toluene xylene, by several dearomatization methods. In a document that attempts to draw more concise distinctions between hydrocarbon solvents, conservator Alan Phenix explains that the most important distinction amongst the various hydrocarbon solvents are their boiling/distillation ranges (and, by association, volatility, flash point etc.) and aromatic content.[1] Given the toxicity/carcinogenicity of some aromatic hydrocarbons, most notably benzene, the aromatic content of petroleum distillate solvents, which would normally be in the 10-25% (w/w) range for most petroleum fractions, can be advantageously reduced when their special solvation properties are not required and a less odorous, lower toxicity solvent is desired, especially when present in consumer products. Phenix further points out that "To all intents and purposes petroleum benzine appears synonymous with petroleum spirit." Petroleum spirit is generally considered to be the fractions between the very lightest hydrocarbons, petroleum ether, and the heavier distillates, mineral spirits. For example, petroleum benzine with a boiling range of 36 - 83 °C sold by EMD Millipore under CAS-No. 64742-49-0 is identified in the product MSDS as hydrotreated light petroleum distillates comprising ≥ 90% C5-C7 hydrocarbons, n-alkanes, isoalkanes, and < 5% n-hexane, while Santa Cruz Biotechnology sells a petroleum ether product under the same CAS-No. Fisher Scientific offers a product ‘Benzine (Petroleum Naphtha)' that retails for a high price that would suggest it is a speciality product but in fact conforms to Marathon Petroleum's 'VM&P Naphtha' (Varnish Makers & Painters’ Naphtha) found widely distributed in many hardware stores in North America.[2]

                        According to their corresponding MSDS, most commercially offered petroleum benzine solvents consist of parrafins (alkanes) with chain lengths of C5 to C9 (i.e. n-pentane to n-nonane and their isomers), cycloparaffins (cyclopentane, cyclohexane, ethylcyclopentane, etc.) and aromatic hydrocarbons (benzene, toluene, xylene, etc.). The TSCA Definition 2008 describes petroleum benzine as "a complex combination of hydrocarbons obtained by treating a petroleum fraction with hydrogen in the presence of a catalyst. It consists of hydrocarbons having carbon numbers predominantly in the range of C4 through C11 and boiling in the range of approximately -20°C to 190°C."

                        Health concerns
                        Beginning in the 1960s and 70's, the high incidence rate of polyneuropathy amongst industrial workers chronically exposed to petroleum benzine and other hydrocarbon solvents prompted investigations into the safety of chronic exposure to petroleum distillates.[3][4][5] Many of the cases of polyneuropathy amongst workers chronically exposed to vapors of petroleum benzine and similar solvents have been attributed to the n-hexane component of these mixtures. Using an animal model (Wistar-strain male rats), Ono and coworkers[6] reported that chronic exposure (12 h a day for 24 weeks) to hydrocarbon solvent vapors conspicuously impaired peripheral nerve function in the 500 ppm n-hexane group, slightly impaired in the 200 ppm n-hexane group and petroleum benzine II group (containing 500 ppm n-hexane), and barely impaired in the petroleum benzine I group (containing 200 ppm n-hexane). These results suggest that some components in petroleum benzine are likely to antagonize the neurotoxic effects of n-hexane to the peripheral nerves, possibly by inhibiting the oxidation of n-hexane to its more toxic metabolites 2-hexanone and 2,5-hexanedione. Ono and coworkers also observed depressed body weight gains amongst the exposed groups compared to the control group in the order: petroleum benzine II > petroleum benzine I (ccontaining 200 ppm n-hexane) >> 500 ppm n-hexane > 200 ppm n-hexane. These results suggest that other components found in petroleum benzine may have an additive, syngeristic or potentiative effects on the biological effects of n-hexane.[7] Namely, 1000 ppm n-hexane, 3000 ppm n-heptane and 1000 ppm toluene were reported to have the effect of depressing the body weight gain of rats.[8]"



                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_fuel

                        "Coleman fuel is a petroleum naphtha product marketed by The Coleman Company. Historically called white gas (not white spirit), it is a liquid petroleum fuel (100% light hydrotreated distillate) usually sold in one gallon cans.[1] It is used primarily for fueling lanterns and camp stoves. Additionally, it is a popular fuel for fire dancing. Originally, it was simply casing-head gas or drip gas which has similar properties. Drip gas was sold commercially at gas stations and hardware stores in North America until the early 1950s. The white gas sold today is a similar product but is produced at refineries with the benzene removed.[2][unreliable source?]

                        Coleman fuel is a mixture of cyclohexane, nonane, octane, heptane, and pentane.[3]

                        Though Coleman fuel has an octane rating of 50 to 55 and a flammability similar to gasoline, it has none of the additives found in modern gasoline and should not be used as a substitute for gasoline.[citation needed] While it will function as a fuel for gasoline engines, its high combustion temperature and lack of octane boosting additives could damage engine valves[citation needed], while its low octane rating and lack of anti-knock agents can produce knocking that could lead to bearing and piston rod damage, so such use should only be considered for emergencies and/or very short distances. And like gasoline, it should not be used as a substitute for kerosene or diesel fuel. However, it is quite popular as a fuel for model engines, where the low octane rating is not a problem, additives are unwanted, and the clean burning, low odor and longer shelf life are considered advantages."



                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentane

                        "Pentane is an organic compound with the formula C5H12 — that is, an alkane with five carbon atoms. The term may refer to any of three structural isomers, or to a mixture of them: in the IUPAC nomenclature, however, pentane means exclusively the n-pentane isomer; the other two are called isopentane (methylbutane) and neopentane (dimethylpropane). Cyclopentane is not an isomer of pentane because it has only 10 hydrogen atoms where pentane has 12.

                        Pentanes are components of some fuels and are employed as specialty solvents in the laboratory. Their properties are very similar to those of butanes and hexanes.

                        <snip>

                        Laboratory use
                        Pentanes are relatively inexpensive and are the most volatile liquid alkanes at room temperature, so they are often used in the laboratory as solvents that can be conveniently and rapidly evaporated. However, because of their nonpolarity and lack of functionality, they dissolve only non-polar and alkyl-rich compounds. Pentanes are miscible with most common nonpolar solvents such as chlorocarbons, aromatics, and ethers. They are often used in liquid chromatography."



                        My conclusion is pentane (36C Bp,) or low (35-60C) Bp petroleum ether are preferable for health reasons.


                        (Chemsavers) Petroleum Ether (Ligroin), ACS, 35-60°C, 500ml (16oz)
                        For Research & Development
                        Not for drug, clinical use in humans, for food or food additive use

                        Specifications:
                        Meets ACS Specifications
                        Boiling range 35° - 60°C Pass
                        Color (A.P.H.A.) <10
                        Acidity Pass
                        Copper corrosion Pass
                        Doctor Test - Negative - Pass
                        Residue after evaporation <10ppm
                        Sulfur <5ppm
                        Benzene (GC) <2ppm

                        CAS: 8032-32-4"


                        Last edited by SkyHighLer; 02-16-2017, 22:20.
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                        Best to Worst Canned Butane List
                        https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.ph...6&postcount=28

                        Cannabis Alchemy by D. Gold
                        http://calgarycmmc.com/E-books/E%20B...0D.%20Gold.pdf

                        Hash oil techniques and solvents for non BHO hash oil?
                        https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=338633

                        Solvents listed as to polarity
                        https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.ph...&postcount=162

                        The Truth Machine by James L. Halperin (free read provided by the author)
                        https://coins.ha.com/information/ttm.s

                        Comment


                          #13
                          "I've done QWISO many times over the years and never come up with a product you could put in a dabber that didn't look black and taste nasty I hear cold is key, tried it, still was never happy with vaping the end product, stony, but bad nasty taste and dark color Would consider trying activated charcoal, but yeah, just never found this to make anything better than smoking quality Throw it on a bud, smoke it, then it taste fine."
                          I'm not as qualified as most of the guys who are already helping you but I will comment on QWISO because I have some experience. If you are getting black and nasty tasting concentrate I would say its the starting material and not the method of extraction. I use QWISO extraction and use a vacuum chamber and the end result is just fine. Could it be better with out a doubt but in my opinion the rest is just bragging rights.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Acetone bp is 56C according to google. Looks like its a valid choice if you purge at around 140F to be safe.
                            Hey SH can pentane be ordered by individuals? I am curious about using it because it has such a low bp relative to acetone or iso (86C).
                            Everything is connected

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Toluene is my next batch Blew some nice BHO today, maybe toluene batch tomorrow Very optimistic because I have read good things (what little I have) and that its polar and will get more good and less gunk.

                              Comment

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