Quest to find out WHY some BHO turns into "butter" or "budder" over time?

[Really Sam]

But when you test for degradation you don't test the CBN level straight up, you take a ratio of the CBN/THC (%). Wouldn't that increase the % and show that the THC had indeed degraded into CBN? I imagine you couldn't make your own CBN reference standard as with THC. Capitalizing Bob's name so it won't be diminished by Kut's?

Are these glands immature? Remember the chemical composition can be completely different if the plant hasn't completed its complex organic syntheses. You'll still be way up in the CBC / CBG part of the chain. Check for them and cannabigerol monomethyl ether and things. Polar bastards wouldn't melt if you sat on them all day.

Jump is right about glass and color. It's a physics refraction / reflection thing. Also I just remembered that Hashish! was dedicated to Rob's father so in case he's a Jr. I'll stop calling him Bob out of respect.

 

[Shcrews]

this got way too deep.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

But when you test for degradation you don't test the CBN level straight up, you take a ratio of the CBN/THC (%). Wouldn't that increase the % and show that the THC had indeed degraded into CBN? I imagine you couldn't make your own CBN reference standard as with THC. Capitalizing Bob's name so it won't be diminished by Kut's?

First of all that is one way to measure the degradation of THC into CBN. Another way is to first measure the THC/CBN level and after the resin turning white measure it again, that is what I did.
Sure I do have a prep HPLC and I can make my own Cannabinoid standards pretty easy, but I can buy Cannabinoid analytical standards here in the Netherlands, they are all legal except for THC.
I capitalized Rob's name to point out his name is not Bob.

Are these glands immature? Remember the chemical composition can be completely different if the plant hasn't completed its complex organic syntheses. You'll still be way up in the CBC / CBG part of the chain. Check for them and cannabigerol monomethyl ether and things. Polar bastards wouldn't melt if you sat on them all day.

Jump is right about glass and color. It's a physics refraction / reflection thing. Also I just remembered that Hashish! was dedicated to Rob's father so in case he's a Jr. I'll stop calling him Bob out of respect.

No the glands were fully mature, and anyway in my experience the ratio of Cannabinoids don't really change much at all, only the absolute amounts increase with maturity.
BTW, both pure CBC, CBD, CBG, CBN, all white powders, and THCV melt when heated and turn into a puddle of oil like material before being vaporized or smoked. My THCV standard is a dark oil that was so solid it needed to be heated just to measure and weigh.
I have gram amounts of them all to use in my R&D.

What about the terpenoids? Which help or hinder Budder making? Any ideas?
-SamS

 

[Really Sam]

CBC was described by Claussen as a crystalline substance with a melting point between 144 and 146 C. CBG of course exists as the neutral carboxylic acid noted above. As you see Radwan et al. describe it as a white amorphous powder. Even if you consider it decarboxylated, Gaoni and Mechoulam still pronounced it as having a discrete melting point between 51 and 53 C in 1964. CBN appears in white leaflets according to Adams 1940, with a discrete melting point between 76 and 77 C. I find that these substances would make things less adhesive, especially for someone who makes dry sift and complains of lack of adhesion. Your body is not nearly these temperatures. Have you compared the neutral acid forms of these chemicals with those they could spontaneously decarboxylate to overnight?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

My dry sift is pretty much just THC, most Cannabis grown in the West are THC rich and other Cannabinoid's poor. CBD, CBC, CBG, CBN are much less then .1% and they are all in the acid form on the living plant, in dried plant materials, as well as resin. You can heat materials to decarboxylate them, but it is very slow at room temperatures. It does not happen overnight. I have measured the THCA to THC decarboxylation in the past and even after two years at room temperatures most of the THCA was intact.
I don't quite understand your last question, compared by what means? Most of my analytical standards are not in the acid form. So I would have to extract the acid forms and I don't have a reason to do so that I can think of.

What about the terpenoids? Which help or hinder Budder making? Any ideas?
-SamS

 

[Really Sam]

It seems like the CBD content would be some 0.5 to 4% of your resin in that case given Turner's 1985 study. The last question was meant to determine if you'd ever had a chance to do a visual comparison of a neutral plant acid with what it would turn to and if what it would turn to would look white.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I don't know where you are getting your info, but the CBD content of most Cannabis grown in the West is .1% CBD or below. If I measure my dry sift resin's CBD content, in resin that is 50% THC the CBD content is still below .5%, in some varieties still below .1% CBD.

I normally only have resin still in the acid form, so no I have not.

-SamS

 

[Ryoko_The_Demon]

I would guess that oil containing more volatile terpenes would foam up easier. Holes left as they evaporate out could be a vector for air to get into the oil.

 

[Really Sam]

Well I should have known you're not interested in actual information and are just interested in attempting to save face. I forgot you believe terpenes have more psychoative effects and presence in cannabis than other cannabinoids. I'm sure the strain of resin you're testing for cannabinoid content has the same qualitative and quantitative results as resin produced under different conditions from different strains.

 

[Telegraphist.]

RS

Would a sativa taken at 12 or 14 weeks have more polymers (CBG) than a indica given as long as possible before mold sets in?

What would the differences be between a hash made from immature indica compared to over mature sativa?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Well I should have known you're not interested in actual information and are just interested in attempting to save face.

Who is this directed to? And BTW, do you have any info on terpenoids that help or hinder the Budder process?

I forgot you believe terpenes have more psychoative effects and presence in cannabis than other cannabinoids.

Not sure what you mean but if you ever smoked pure 100% THC you would agree with me that THC plus the right terpenoids are much more subjectively potent then THC alone or with any combination of Cannabinoids + THC without terpenoids.

I'm sure the strain of resin you're testing for cannabinoid content has the same qualitative and quantitative results as resin produced under different conditions from different strains.

Again, I really don't understand what you mean. But each different variety of resin is different dependent on purity, potency, as well as THC and other Cannabinoid contents, and Terpenoid contents, as well as maturity at harvest and storage.
-SamS

 

[Telegraphist.]

Hi Sam

Could you give more details of your cannabinoids/ terepene experiments please?

Which ones with which cannabinoids ratios?

Also what info could yuou please give the medical user about CBD and best time to harvest for CBD content instead of THC?

Would a transdermal patch ever be a possability in the future or would breakdown levels halt that idea?

 

[Telegraphist.]

You cannot ban Really Sam

You cannot ban Really Sam

What going on? When was he banned, what henious crime did he commit?

Come back Sam

(Mummbles as he shuffles away to draw pentogram in soil and light candles and await for the reincarnation of Really Sam).

 

[cannaboy]

I have been making some oil over the last week will post some pics when its evaporarted.

 

[Quick]

Sam, could you measure the terpene profiles in several 'make great budder' strains and look for similarities?

Some strains budder-up more easily than others, there's a huge difference in ease of it happening when the strain works well in that respect.
The buddered product will increase in volume but not change in weight (density change?).

1. being stirred while still moist after heating 2. left to 'set', or 'buddered' 3. take a hoot away 4. maintains shape

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

Thanks for the responses everyone, I haven't read them in detail but plan to when I have a little more focus!!

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Sam, could you measure the terpene profiles in several 'make great budder' strains and look for similarities?

Some strains budder-up more easily than others, there's a huge difference in ease of it happening when the strain works well in that respect.
The buddered product will increase in volume but not change in weight (density change?).

1. being stirred while still moist after heating 2. left to 'set', or 'buddered' 3. take a hoot away 4. maintains shape

Sure you could, just like doing the same with buds or resin, looking for the contents that are subjectively preferred by most smokers, or the terpenoids that help the Budder process.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Hi Sam

Could you give more details of your cannabinoids/ terepene experiments please?

Which ones with which cannabinoids ratios?

Also what info could yuou please give the medical user about CBD and best time to harvest for CBD content instead of THC?

Would a transdermal patch ever be a possability in the future or would breakdown levels halt that idea?

I posted a bit in the past. Look the posts up.

As for CBD content, it is not the time of harvest, as much as the variety that needs to be grown. You need a variety high in CBD.

I don't know a lot about trans-dermal delivery, except that it is difficult.
-SamS

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

lol banned again. its amazing people cant see what evaporates out of oil in bubble form is a lot of terpenes. just try making a lemony strain at a low temperature purge, and you will have lovely lemony oil. now make it a bit hotter, and cook all the bubble out, and it tastes like garbage. cant be the terpenes evaporating can it? and oh wait, why does the house reek insanely like lemons when i purge a lemony strain at too high a temp? cant be terpenes offgassing can it?


duh.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Hey Really Noble Person,
How about you answer my questions like, which Terpenoids help or hinder the BUDDER process? Any ideas at all?
Or which Cannabinoids besides THC that you believe have more psychoactive effects than other Terpenoids with THC?

-SamS