What really makes smoke harsh?
- Thread starter maryjohn
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Right, so... maybe I've misquoted you on that. Would you say that it's possible with organic soils, to overfeed a plant? And by overfeed I mean too many salts delivered at once, and/or too many delivered at the time of harvest, bacterially, fungally or via direct absorption of ionic salts.
Crazy Composer - Did it finish that green? I naturally assume when I see a plant at that stage that it has a lot of N available,yet I do understand(and have had plants that finish super green))that some strains do this without creating harsh smoke. Just curious.
CC,
I pm'd you the other day, perhaps you remember me. Anyway, from a complete newb point of view, assuming I am starting from your basic mix.....which would you think would be the most problem free grow. Top dress the dry guano or liquid organic ferts? Either way I would be using your philosophy of lean is better. Great shots by the way and thanks for the help.
I pm'd you the other day, perhaps you remember me. Anyway, from a complete newb point of view, assuming I am starting from your basic mix.....which would you think would be the most problem free grow. Top dress the dry guano or liquid organic ferts? Either way I would be using your philosophy of lean is better. Great shots by the way and thanks for the help.
dont know if its been mentioned... but for the last 2 weeks of flowering I put the lamps back up as high as they'll go in order to preserve those valuable terpins 
but yes as everyone here heartliy agrees... flush the shit out of them bad girls
but yes as everyone here heartliy agrees... flush the shit out of them bad girls
If you are using properly made compost or digested vermicompost or other intelligently chosen top dressed organic matter, my answer is no, you cannot 'overfeed'. I have grown plants beginning to end in straight compost.
Jay, have you done this?
Pretty much finished this green. There was nothing that could be done about it because there was too much organic material releasing too much N even right to the end of flowering.
Problem-free? Either is good for that purpose really. I like the idea of never having to mix ANYTHING in the water. Cuts a lot of time and hassle out of the process. I currently feed only dry guano powders to the surface of the soil, then keep the soil moist. But using liquid ferts can be pretty easy, too.
Well. not everyone here agrees with that. I agree, because salts/minerals, etc that are still available to the plant, and are just waiting to be taken up by the plant, can be (at least patially) flushed out of the medium. This is completely evident by actually giving it a try. Shortly after doing this, in sufficiently lean soils, the leaves will go yellow from lack of N very quickly. Of course, if there's still tons of organic matter in the medium at this time, the N levels will be restored, making a flush almost impossible to accomplish. But this is why I'm talking about lean soils here... The benefit of a lean soil is that the organic matter will be all but exhausted by harvest, if it's formulated right... meanin a flush can actually do it's job.
Now, in a conversation with a friend, in PMs, it became apparent that the difficulty between what I'm saying and what organic soil growers who reuse their soil over and over are saying is... My methods are purposely depleting the medium for harvest time... to ensure as little salt/minerals in the bud as possible... but growers who reuse their soil don't want to deplete their mediums by harvest because they want it to be full of organics for the next time they use it. I get it.
Assuming not everyone wants to reuse their soils, would you consider a soil comprised mainly of Coco Coir and worm castings to be an organic medium? And if so, is it intelligent to top feed with only dry bat and seabird guano? Remember... this medium is NOT to be reused in the garden ever again. It goes out to be used in the compost bin, for use in the veggie garden. If this is not in the category of organic growing, what would it be called?
BTW... the plants I just posted a while ago were in straight compost, they looked great, smelled great, but were NOT top quality when it came to the smoke. Not even close. Another case-in-point is right here in my stash... a friend used straight compost on a grow of Cherry Bomb... nothing but water was given... the plants looked great, but they taste and burn terribly. I see this all the time. Now, the guy who grew them thinks it's great bud... I won't smoke it again.
hi mm, sorry to prod you on this, but im just trying to get this straight - you seem to be saying that you cant burn your plants with organics as long as you dont use the wrong things - which imo is slightly sidestepping the question.
are you saying that its impossible to overfeed using compost, or ewc? i believe you use compost and ewc that you make youself and are lucky enough to know exactly what is in it.
how about people who buy a bag of EWC? - im pretty sure that ive seen plants burnt by EWC.
could you go into a little more detail on what regularly used organic amendments and ferts can or cant burn you plants?
thanks
V.
Yeah MM, I'm looking for some clarification, too. I just want to know why someone is telling me that what I've seen with my own eyes so many times, didn't really happen. I honestly would like to be proven wrong because that means I have an entirely new way of understanding this coming to me, and that would truly be cool. But as of right now, I can't agree that organics can't overfeed plants.
Composted chicken and cow manure. That's N-dominated for sure. Plants would surely look good but taste like shit. That "lean soil" theory makes sense, but is a timing thing for sure and dialing in would be necessary to get optimum yields and favorable flavors simultaneously.
i have grown in straight compost before and do it all the time, but it REALLY depends on the compost source. i don't think you can burn plants with quality composted materials, but you CAN burn the shit out of them with things like alfalfa meal, bat guanos, fish emulsions, etc....that are not composted or if used in too great of amounts. which will end up with one thing, crappy smoke.
CC the plants i put in straight in homemade compost never finish out green, that must be some STRONG compost lol. is the compost you used rich in animal manure since you mentioned chicken shit earlier? or just plain composted manure. in that case and i have had the same problem when trying commercial composts. the end product ends up foul tasting because most of the time its composted as fast as possible and never allowed to "cure" or "balance out". i now exclude any and all manures from my compost(even my own chickens). and only use plant matter. and the problem went away, i even have to supplement things via liquids or top dressing sometimes.
i would consider it an organic medium for sure, but not an organic soil medium.
CC the plants i put in straight in homemade compost never finish out green, that must be some STRONG compost lol. is the compost you used rich in animal manure since you mentioned chicken shit earlier? or just plain composted manure. in that case and i have had the same problem when trying commercial composts. the end product ends up foul tasting because most of the time its composted as fast as possible and never allowed to "cure" or "balance out". i now exclude any and all manures from my compost(even my own chickens). and only use plant matter. and the problem went away, i even have to supplement things via liquids or top dressing sometimes.
i would consider it an organic medium for sure, but not an organic soil medium.
I didn't use the chicken and cow manure, a friend did, against my advice. But it WAS organic, and they WERE overfed.
Just water.
He took it from a pile of chicken and cow manure that had been in a pile for several years, no cover, exposed to the elements. It obviously provided everything the plants needed, but too much.
I pretty much agree with what Jay said so no need to repeat. One big problem I guess is compost/vermicompost quality. This is also a major problem with liquid nutes. I do have the luxury of making my own as well as being able to appraise compost microscopically. I have no experience whatsoever with coco as I have stated previously. Also as previously stated, I have no intention to convince anyone to grow a certain way although gladly pass on my experience which apparently produced the highest selling medicine in a large city dispensery for around 5 years in a row. I am gratified when anyone makes the decision to use less harmful amendments but even more gratified when someone discovers that soil is as alive as the plant growing in it. That is really all there is and I see no point in continuously spinning my wheels through repetition. If you wish to read it over and over just read some of my posts and go to my webpage.
Believe me, I know what repeating myself is like. Soil is alive, if you don't know that, you're not using soil. That was never the issue. It was whether or not organics can overfeed plants. But if you don't want to answer, that's cool. I already know the answer, I just wanted to make sure that anyone looking for the answer to that question would have access to helpful facts. Most people are not reusing their soils, so most people will not be helped to hear that organics cannot overfeed plants. It's just not the case. The way YOU treat your grow may not overfeed, but again, very, very few of us will be doing it the way you do.
Peace to all,
cc
Peace to all,
cc
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