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Nutrients and Additives (UK)
- Thread starter Dr. D
- Start date
ive noticed exactly the same for the last 2 years ,,i wonder if the authorities are adding something to fuck the plants up ,,,i had an analysis and my water has no cal/mag in it at all . adding epsom seems to have fixed it
Water always varies, I used to grow with Thames Water Inspectors and we used to meet up for toke n chat often while they were doing the (more complex than our NFT systems) Water Analysis for Thames Water.
IIRC, like a Swimming pool, when something bursts, or leaks more than normal, they have to Shock it with a very high dose of Chlorine (and maybe other stuff) to bring down the higher levels of shit in the pipeline... then test, check, re test.. And I am pretty sure there is more to it than just that. Also, IIRC they have a network of supplies and what you receive is always cahnging in source, ratios etc. Plus winds and season affect water reservoirs... it is complex and not all is "their fault"... but for us, a constant need to keep an eye on everything
^^^Spot on there CC, the water mains are all old now so often need repairs, they can be working on them miles away but if you're downstream then you'll get a dose of the shitty water through followed by a strong disinfectant which is usually acidic
The supply companies do their best but this has been normal practice for over 100 years and is unlikely to change
The only thing to do is taste the water, we're lucky to have potable water in the UK, if you can drink it then your plants should be OK
Rapaul--- try Plant Magic nutrients, there's a separate hard and soft water range of nutes
The supply companies do their best but this has been normal practice for over 100 years and is unlikely to change
The only thing to do is taste the water, we're lucky to have potable water in the UK, if you can drink it then your plants should be OK
Rapaul--- try Plant Magic nutrients, there's a separate hard and soft water range of nutes
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Are you fucking serious.....The assay for drinking water does not include a test for any specific salts, if you have hard water then the supply is from a hard rock area and is naturally low in calcium and magnesium
The amount of bioavailable CEC will determine the plants outcome from soil and it's porosity matters a great deal. Saying they don't eat organic is nonsense. Molassas and Kelp??. It's all organic matter, soil life consumes it and stores it in humus increasing the OM of the substrate. Plants translocate it.. Sand Silt Clay. You sure as heck don't find coir in the triangle..
I've used coir in my soil since day 1. The amount of feeds can be increased and the nutrients are delivered most effectively when done this way because of saturation and oxygen content increase.
I started this off with Bio-Bizz and Canna Coir. Not the Pro+. I was using the Pre-Mix, Guano and Pirhana and feeding Organic EWC and Guano tea regular as they brewed and I had one cooking whilst one was being used.
I found Iguana to be ideal for this substrate I made because it's compatable with both substrates individually and it's a non Chem fish Emulsion or Hydroslate depending on the Mk1 or Mk2, so you can't get salt stress but nutrient Lockout and >Toxicty you can.
Osmosis won't knacker up the organics this way. You just keep it wet. (Bottom feeding is recomended & enhanced through greater wicking absorption) with 30 ltr pots I was giving 2.25ltrs a day of 1.2E.C alternate with the Teas. I could feed less more oftern by hand. I found Sensizym and Voodoo usefull to move the root lock in the pots. pH was best 6.8-7.2. More in the natural range. I always pH'd the water first so I had to learn to work from 'Scratch'. That being an ammount of water that I knew @ a certain pH would need X amount of bloom/grow to get my goal pH.
It's awesome growing like this because plants can go a few days without water and drippers work better but you can't reuse the substrate as easily..
I've tried and tried but you can't without overfeeding or feeding more.. Besides the Mag/Cal is way off by that time with the extra uptake. And you can't have a soil tests done to get the levels back. This is why I cut topsil and manure/compost with it and grow vegetables.You can't basterdize the two and make it brilliant.
I started this because I was SOG growing and didn't want to feed any chems and back then 6 ltrs of soil was far to much for the size of plants grown so I cut it by 1/2.
You will notice a deep green in plants that have most OM or N to their disposal this is less apparent without a symbiosis
The assay for drinking water does not include a test for any specific salts, if you have hard water then the supply is from a hard rock area and is naturally low in calcium and magnesium
it would be wise to check your facts before assuming you know it all ,,severn trent water provide a full analysis of the water it sells ,,its on there website and is the reason i know theres no cal/mag in it
it would be wise to check your facts before assuming you know it all ,,severn trent water provide a full analysis of the water it sells ,,its on there website and is the reason i know theres no cal/mag in it
What's this mean, it's better or worse? You need Cal MG or not?
I don't need it with 7 Trent.
Brand Nutrients are a catch all that should work with varying tap water. I think that some work for some people better than others because of the underlying type/types of base minerals in different nutrient products
Most or all Hydro Glasshouse vegetables are grown in water that is constantly analysed and adjusted for pH, and also CF, but also the NPK and probably more, automated individual nutrient dosing. I was reading about this in The Grower magazine, the UK Glasshouse industry magazine, a mine of real information, 15 or more years ago, no doubt a lot has moved on further in this direction.
This is to grow $ 0.20/KG Tomatoes, so it is probably worth our while looking into. I also think I remember talk of tissue samples being analysed and doses, recipes being tweaked.
The amount of bioavailable CEC will determine the plants outcome from soil and it's porosity matters a great deal. Saying they don't eat organic is nonsense. Molassas and Kelp??. It's all organic matter, soil life consumes it and stores it in humus increasing the OM of the substrate. Plants translocate it.. Sand Silt Clay. You sure as heck don't find coir in the triangle..
I've used coir in my soil since day 1. The amount of feeds can be increased and the nutrients are delivered most effectively when done this way because of saturation and oxygen content increase.
I started this off with Bio-Bizz and Canna Coir. Not the Pro+. I was using the Pre-Mix, Guano and Pirhana and feeding Organic EWC and Guano tea regular as they brewed and I had one cooking whilst one was being used.
I found Iguana to be ideal for this substrate I made because it's compatable with both substrates individually and it's a non Chem fish Emulsion or Hydroslate depending on the Mk1 or Mk2, so you can't get salt stress but nutrient Lockout and >Toxicty you can.
Osmosis won't knacker up the organics this way. You just keep it wet. (Bottom feeding is recomended & enhanced through greater wicking absorption) with 30 ltr pots I was giving 2.25ltrs a day of 1.2E.C alternate with the Teas. I could feed less more oftern by hand. I found Sensizym and Voodoo usefull to move the root lock in the pots. pH was best 6.8-7.2. More in the natural range. I always pH'd the water first so I had to learn to work from 'Scratch'. That being an ammount of water that I knew @ a certain pH would need X amount of bloom/grow to get my goal pH.
It's awesome growing like this because plants can go a few days without water and drippers work better but you can't reuse the substrate as easily..
You can't basterdize the two and make it brilliant.
I started this because I was SOG growing and didn't want to feed any chems and back then 6 ltrs of soil was far to much for the size of plants grown so I cut it by 1/2.
You will notice a deep green in plants that have most OM or N to their disposal this is less apparent without a symbiosis
Dave,
What I am saying, and have had confirmed by several people with Chemistry/Botany degrees, is that "plants cannot absorb nutrients in Organic form" ... Specifically because the organic molecules are too complex and need to be broken down by (last stages of the microherd process) the bacteria into NO3... literally physically smaller compounds, broken up from larger, Organic structures...and it is these and only these that the roots can "fit in" to their nutrient receptors. (probably taking a few liberties there in trying to put it in plain Engrish)
So, the actual nutrient molecules a plant root absorbs is identical whether it has passed through a living organic root system, or a hydro system
I understand NPK is NPK.. I agree with you I'm just saying that they will take anything via osmosis providing the solution at either side of the semipermiable membrane are within the desired range.
EWC is already broken down, All ferments Etc are organic plant food. Rabbit poo is instant release. The Soil feeds are way different..
That's what I am sayin, this is the hinge between organic and NPK in a bottle.
DocLeaf runs a hydro and organic veg farm. It would put lots of these commercial grows to shame for the experience needed to crop all the genus in various stages.
The fertigation irrigation is based on what water you have. I've done commercial growing. There is always leaf soil water analysis going on..
You even need to feed @ night with commercial hydro so as to keep the reservoir stable, DTW is the same..
Soil and seep hose is different..
Cannabis is lucky it needs no additional fertilizer, it's a pioneer plant and will grow in the worst of soils and provide food and medication..
3 words Bioavailable. Ionic. Flux. Plants use nutrients in ionic forms.
Also I would 't listen to those with botany degrees or those with chemistry because they were wrong. Had I have been on the course with them they would know this.
I fell out with loads of douchebags @ college who looked @ tutors and the Guvnors as if it was their safe word. They just turned round and said we encourage people to investige things that warrent merit and distinction themselves because we give out the passes..
EWC is already broken down, All ferments Etc are organic plant food. Rabbit poo is instant release. The Soil feeds are way different..
That's what I am sayin, this is the hinge between organic and NPK in a bottle.
DocLeaf runs a hydro and organic veg farm. It would put lots of these commercial grows to shame for the experience needed to crop all the genus in various stages.
The fertigation irrigation is based on what water you have. I've done commercial growing. There is always leaf soil water analysis going on..
You even need to feed @ night with commercial hydro so as to keep the reservoir stable, DTW is the same..
Soil and seep hose is different..
Cannabis is lucky it needs no additional fertilizer, it's a pioneer plant and will grow in the worst of soils and provide food and medication..
3 words Bioavailable. Ionic. Flux. Plants use nutrients in ionic forms.
Also I would 't listen to those with botany degrees or those with chemistry because they were wrong. Had I have been on the course with them they would know this.
I fell out with loads of douchebags @ college who looked @ tutors and the Guvnors as if it was their safe word. They just turned round and said we encourage people to investige things that warrent merit and distinction themselves because we give out the passes..
it would be wise to check your facts before assuming you know it all ,,severn trent water provide a full analysis of the water it sells ,,its on there website and is the reason i know theres no cal/mag in it
Also where I am I have hard water has loads of calcium , leave a glass of water and it will taste rank in about 10 minutes lots of lime scale in it its hard water , 10 miles down the road it's soft I only need to add a few drops of ph down compared to quote a lot of ph down in the hard area , may be that's why my mates grows are all ways shit , he may need lots more cal mag , never thought to think of the water there , I'll get to that pretty quick thanks chaps
i literally swapped and changed everything trying to solve this ,blamed everything apart from the water and the bloke down the road
,,,very bad schoolboy error and so pissed off for not realising ,,has cost me a fortune ..any reccomendations on a water filter ?
RO unit
RO unit
^^^^^^ my water is hard as nails, so been using an RO unit for years, got my first one from the States when you couldn't source them here. You only need a 3 stage one, like this which I have (150 gal per day), but the 100 is just as good, bit slower.
http://www.osmotics.co.uk/products/3-Stage-150-Gallon-Per-Day-Reverse-Osmosis-System.html
Yes they do waste a lot of water, but I'm not on a water meter, so...
RO unit
^^^^^^ my water is hard as nails, so been using an RO unit for years, got my first one from the States when you couldn't source them here. You only need a 3 stage one, like this which I have (150 gal per day), but the 100 is just as good, bit slower.
http://www.osmotics.co.uk/products/3-Stage-150-Gallon-Per-Day-Reverse-Osmosis-System.html
Yes they do waste a lot of water, but I'm not on a water meter, so...
pipp
Member
I certainly found the water made a difference when growing in different parts of the country. Won't name the area but had trouble almost straight away the water was that poor. The PH also varies a lot. Some additives and feeds actually come in hard and soft water types. Got no degrees or really know why its just from my personal observation.
i tried adding cal mag and it just made things worse ,,the water has so much calcium its locking out magnesium and manganese ,,adding epson salts to the equasion has solved the problem ..
just curious ,,is this why you were adding the trace mix ?
not heard of it ,,i assume just a silica additive ,,which will always make things good ...
got a link ?
p.s hope you and the family are all good
Talking about water... I used to grow with 2 Thames Water Inspectors, got to see and learn a fair bit about their job...
Basically, it is not just about "areas"... the water that comes out of your tap is VARIABLE... usually..
If you live in a remote town with a reservoir above that is filled by virgin hills above, it may well be pretty stable...but it also may not, there is so much that goes on in the pipes...
If you live in London area for example... your water could change 10x a day
for example..
Res A runs low, below the 40% operating capacity that gives the cleanest water, so supply for some areas is changed to Res B. Etc. it is probably a blend already that can vary a lot
Incidents... if you see the famous "hole in the road".. watch, they are probably going to inject a shitload of Chlorine as a shock to clean the contaminated water, "for your safety"
Storms, whip up silt in Reservoirs, so supplies are changed to "sub prime" sources, after they have changed due to the storm
etc. etc.
