New Experimental Organic Hydro Technique!

[DrunkenMessiah]

wanting to say thanks DrunkenMessiah . If posters were to read all of your postings in this thread from the beginning they will more than likely gain a brilliant insight into what you are saying and find most of their many questions already answered such as supercropping/ feeding/ flushing / starving and recycling cycles. All amazing and valuable information. This OBBT system as described by yourself looks perfect for a medical cabinet. No need for emptying soil or large containers with water . Something that medical users often find very difficult .This is a Low cost system once its set up and refreshingly simple. The possibilty of growing organic first class meds with both minimal imput and ongoing costs should appeal to many . Once again thanks . I dont yet have any pics to share but my sweet ladies are looking good in their new homes .

HAHAHA!!! Oh solarpowered, your words are encouraging but I fear that if forum users where to read this thread from start to finish their eyeballs may fall out! I admit having you guys around to pick my brain and ask questions has resulted in an impressive and growing volume of good information about many aspects of cannabis cultivation. However it is all buried in this goddamn WALL-O-TEXT. Its all too spread out and unorganized. Too full of needless embelishments and other side-effects of my long-winded ranty style of writing. I just vomit up my thoughts as a direct stream-of-conciousness, no consideration for neatness or the sensibilities of the reader.

Someday if this thread actully ends up going anywhere and the OBBT technique gets a decent following I'll have to organize all the info in here somehow. Compress it and strip it down to the bare essentials, Overgrow F.A.Q style. That's almost how I'd have to do it as the info here covers such a broad spectrum. Nutes, mediums, grow schedules, training, harvest, starve/flush, foliar treatments, hormones, lighting and then there's all of the specific trappings associated with actually building an OBBT. Its gotta be a bloody nightmare to wade through all of this crap with the way I've recorded it.

Someday; in the future I'll have a stab at getting it in better shape. Problem is I haven't ever known what to write, had no indication of what parts are important to put down. Being able to put stuff up in this thread and have all of you guys ask questions has really been the drive behind this process. Without all of you and your percistant inquisitiveness none of this would ever have been recorded. Thank you all for making this a reality.

I think that this thread has a lot of good info, but it isn't complete enough to start compressing and writing down in some permenent fashion. I want some of you guys to make a few good runs with the system before we start to set the method in stone. The OBBTs still have some growing up to do I think. So long as the interest stays strong and the questions keep coming this tome of knowlege will continue to grow.

Hopefully the coming weeks will see some magnificent OBBT-generated bud porn being posted in this thread. I think once people start to see what my methodology can do for all-organic-flower there will be a strong influx of new attention. As of now the only growers interested are the ones who appriciate the OBBT as a hydroponic oddity. We are the tinkerers and experimenters who may not neccessarily care if the end yeild is the maxiumum possible. Most the growers who have taken interest so far are purely in it for the joy of the experiment.

I don't think that you guys represent the majority of the population on ICmag. I think its gonna take photographic proof of some solid cannabis yields to get the main body of users here seriously interested. Unable to provide such evidence myself I decided to present my case to ICmag anyway. I never imagined that I would get so many gardeners to give it a try when they have no real proof that it works. I just want to thank you all again for that. As your ladies mature and time goes on I anticipate some seriously stunning images. You badass green-thumbs have already shown great pics of the nicest OBBT cannabis gardens ever made. We've got a truly solid combination of gardeners, genetics, grow cabs and a pinch of guidence from yours truly. The future of this humble little corner of the gardening world is just looking brighter all the time!

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

*EDIT* 100 posts! And coming up on 4500 views! Holy shit how did that happen!? I love you guys

 

[ScrubNinja]

Hi DM thanks for the reply and the offer to run over things with me. It's very intimidating coming from a+b nute hydro. I noticed a few products in surfer's collection I've seen before at the store so that makes me feel more confident.

I will use a taller tub on second thought. It'll fit I reckon. The new one is the same as the old one before it got cut down, so 9.5" tall, and 28 litres.

I should be able to get most of the stuff on the list to get an incubation happening. Might have to do it on the cheap and go digging like surfer did. We have lots of rainforest around with rotting logs, moss, that sort of thing is what I want, right? A lot of stuff in the forest is sort of rotted, except it doesn't smell bad, if that makes sense? Perhaps that'd be a good choice?

As for my current organics....this shouldn't take long...I have blackstrap molasses, and a liquid product I really like called Seasol. (from bull kelp)

See? I told you this is intimidating I'll be going shopping for the basics soon so I'll take a notepad and see what you reckon. Thanks again.

I noticed on the blog you are/were growing Lantana! That stuff grows like crazy here. It's an introduced species that now grows wild. It fills up any clearing that isn't rainforest so a lot of dope gets grown in it's thick, twisted patches. I read that it releases some kind of chemical or signal that retards the growth of competing plants which I could understand seeing it's aggressive growth, but several local growers have noted that it seems beneficial towards ganja. Plants are just great, aren't they!

Oh, one other thing, I wanted to give all my hydro equipment to someone to see if they like growing, while I'm doing this thing. Should I give them my ph pen as they'd really kinda need it? I take it it's not really a neccesity if the OBBT is running as one would hope. Thanks man.

Edit: We love you too, brah! hehehe, been wanting to use that emoticon for a while.

 

[DrunkenMessiah]

Stupendous enthusiasm ScrubNinja!

9.25 inches of depth and 28 liters total volume is HUGE. You will easily run a single plant out of that. Figure on a 3-4 inch deep bath, 4-5 inches of medium and 1 inch of pearlite. Perfect.

The pH pen could certainly be used with the OBBT but it won't really tell you anything. Ph of the runoff from an OBBT is a poor indication of what's really going on down there. Because there are so many water-insoluble organic matirials in the medium there's always some nutes waiting in the wings, so TDS measurements are out as well. You may want to invest in an El-Cheapo soil pH testing kit that comes with those little one-time-use-capsules. Honestly though if you follow my instructions well even this is unnecessary.

As for natural sources of fungus, yes! you may certainly go digging about out in the woods. You are looking specifically for fungus that forms in soil, fungi scrapped off of rotting wood or other dead matter is not what we want. Search around under pine trees and other well-established dense vegetation. A gallon of composting rain-forest top-soil should be chock-full of all kinds of wonderful bennies. Combine that with a good Lacto Bactilli culture to keep any rogue bacteria in check and you'll have all the microbes you need.

Your current collection of organics is sparse indeed! Molasses in all forms isn't actually a nute that does anything for the plants. What it does is give the microbes a lot of high-volatility carbohydrates to eat which makes their population briefly sky-rocket. In my opinion molasses is a band-aid, if you've cared for your microbes correctly it should not be necessary. That Seasol stuff on the other hand sounds wonderful. If its anything like the kelp I use it should provide a small amount of nitrogen and potassium along with a massive load of natural growth hormones and traces.

So you've got a lot of gaps to fill, haha!

be on the lookout for guano. Both high-nitrogen and high-phosphate, you never get both in one batch. Fish emulsion is good too and is also available in nitrogen-heavy and phosphate-heavy flavors. Bone meal and blood meal are classics that will net you a lot of insoluble potassium and nitrogen respectively. Organic ash is great and can provide a lot of potassium depending on what it was when alive. Corn cob ash is particularly potent, delivering up to 30% potassium-providing material by mass.

There are a lot of combo powdered organics avaliable too. I buy Bio-Tone which contains tons of great stuff: Manure, greensand, feather meal, alfalfa meal, the list goes on. These sorts of powdered organics are great to fill any gaps you may have in your regime and are a fantastic source of traces. Round out your collection with Epsom salts and some form of fast-acting calcium (hydrated lime, etc)

I've already listed the desirable ratios in this thread but I'll toss them up again. These are in the form of ratios between N/P/K

Veg: 3/1/1
Strech/sexing/early flower: 1/2/1
heavy flower: 1/3/2

Doesn't really matter where the nutes come from so long as you can stick roughly to this plan. Looking forward to helping you build up your organic collection. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

 

[rrog]

What in the world?? Ms. Largely, the discussion and flow of info is really welcomed by so many here. I hope that your arrival doesn't change that. All we want is to grow.

So you and DM developed this elsewhere. That's great. Thank you much for your efforts to bring this to reality. Seriously. And whether 1 person or 5 developed it, this is a good direction for the canna community at large.

I hope that some fences can be mended and that this doesn't drive away the knowledge base that we have here.

DM has been really generous with assistance. If you're also going to offer assistance, that's even better.

Thanks for being here.

 

[rrog]

Man, I just hope this ultimately doesn't shut off the flow of info.

 

[mrwags]

Man, I just hope this ultimately doesn't shut off the flow of info.

I hope not either BUT Karma is a circle.


Mr.Wags

 

[LadyLargely]

hehe! I make my very first post and I get DrunkenMess in trouble with an admin! This is going even better than I thought it would!

Mr Wags:

As much as I would LOVE to say it I'm afraid ole DrunkenMess is not full of shit. I've read through this thread thoroughly now and I can say with confidence as a pot farmer there isn't one bit of misleading info in here. Looks like Drunk somehow got a few gardeners to give our method a shot even with no evidence. The pics they show in time, and have already shown, should prove that there is method to his madness.

DrunkenMess has a lot of bad habits. Getting newbies over-excited with his ideas is a classic example. My first post here was not meant to call DM out on bullshit related to his grow methods. It was to call out the bullshit related to his life.

See, DrunkenMess and I used to be partners in crime. We started growing together way back when we where young and irresponsible. His love of the ganja ran so deep that he gave up on a whole year's worth of engineering school to switch to Horticultural Science.

Things where going great, he was developing our old tubs into a properly mature grow method. Then the dumbass went out and got a job related to the FAA. Monthly drug tests with additional randoms on top of that. He also got himself an anti-drug girlfriend.

When I confronted him about these obviously moronic decisions he told me that he had put pot behind him. He said that he had 'grown up' and didn't need to be a part of the cannabis community and that if I had any sense I would do the same. I had some harsh words for him in response to this and the argument wound up with our friendship ending on bad terms.

AND NOW he's become a part of the best cannabis community on the net. He's obviously decided that marijuana is not, in fact, evil and wants it to be a part of his life again. Having made this decision months ago he never bothered to try and contact me or, yaknow, apologize!

Please don't shut down his thread Mr. Wags. Everything in here is good stuff even if it is long-winded and poorly organized. DrunkenMess over-explains things, it may look like he's trying to teach particle-theory meta-physics but the things he is on about are in reality very simple.

Besides, I want this thread to be around when I start my own complete grow diary. I want a stark comparison for DM. I want him to see the difference between what he is pathetically doing now (this thread) and what he should be doing (what my thread is gonna be).

Trust me, there will be hard photographic evidence of the benefits of our tubs soon enough. Sorry to cause a stir Wags, it is not necessary for you to step in and use your mod powers. You and Ole Blue can rest easy for the moment. Just give DrunkenMess a good scolding for over-exciting the newbies.

 

[rrog]

...but the things he is on about are in reality very simple.

After reading the whole thread myself and taking a lot of notes, I agree. In fact, it's easier than the chem hydro I just finished with. I'm staggered by the method and logic.

I hope you and DM both stay here, LadyL. I really do. Thanks for whatever contribution you had in this technique

 

[rrog]

Sort of like Ultimate fighter teams. Two coaches, two teams, one prize. Smartest thing I've heard this week.

Exciting, different, interesting.

 

[LadyLargely]

After reading the whole thread myself and taking a lot of notes, I agree. In fact, it's easier than the chem hydro I just finished with. I'm staggered by the method and logic.

I hope you and DM both stay here, LadyL. I really do. Thanks for whatever contribution you had in this technique

Hah! You can thank me for the whole thing then! As you can see DM over-complicates things. Without my guidance the elegant simplicity of the current OBBT (ugh, I can't believe I'm calling it that) would never have come to be. It was my encouragement and funding that drove his early years in cannabis cultivation and, as I said, he wouldn't be here if it where not for my influence.

And what the fuck!? Where did my first post go!? That thing was fuckin beautiful! DrunkenMess needed to read that! Come on admins, do you have to be holding my hand already? We're all adults here, none of the things I said where anything the people here haven't heard before? Was it the use of "kunt?" Was calling him a 'patronizing kunt' too muich? I'm sorry, HE IS ONE!

I know I look like the asshole in this situation but trust me, the asshole is DrunkenMess! He's been teaching all of this stuff as if it where his idea and his alone. I would have no issue if he had taken the time, out of all his countless lines of driveling text to go "oh, BTW, I had help coming up with this". I wouldn't have minded if I wheren't mentioned specifically.

DrunkenMess can be arrogant and likes to ride around on a high horse. He gives himself more credit than he deserves. The info here is good but he has seriously pissed me off!

Sorry for all of the non-cannabis-related posts. But I'm not gonna be a helpful part of this community until the record is set straight!

Don't you worry about this ruining the 'flow of information' rrog. I will soon be starting my own thread that explains OBBTs as should be done: with pictures and examples and brief, concise explianations. Not this load of drivel that DrunkenMess has dumped all over the place. Believe me, I know this guy better than anyone else in the world. When he sees that I've found his sorry ass he's gonna flip. I forsee a serious rivalry forming between he and I here on the ICmag forums. And it will not be a stupid, name-calling rivalry (ok, I admit, we'll prolly do a good bit of that at first, just let us get it out of our systems). It will be a productive rivalry that will make us both work harder to give our best to this community.

I can't wait for that chump to come back in here and see that I've found him. I'm already excited for what is going to come of this. Trust me ICmag users, our head-butting will do nothing but benefit you all!

 

[rrog]

Well, LadyL, could I ask you a quick question? Is one 5 gallon pail per plant needed or will a four gallon work also?

 

[mrwags]

Sort of like Ultimate fighter teams. Two coaches, two teams, one prize. Smartest thing I've heard this week.

Exciting, different, interesting.

rrog we must think alike

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=129662



Let The Fun Begin
Mr.Wags

 

[LadyLargely]

HOLY SHIT MR. WAGS I LOVE YOU!!

Seriously man, you are the best fuckin admin EVAR. Tits in cake this is gonna be awesome!

This is not a he-said-she-said situation. It is not a reason to call the science and good info here into question. This is just a personal beef. DrunkenMess mistreated his best friend and I'm sorry, what he did does not warrant civility of any kind!

The anger is starting to subside, I promise to play nice (mostly) from now on.

Very very soon (perhaps even tomorrow) I will be posting my build-up in the growroom design and equipment forums. Shortly thereafter I will be bursting back onto the scene here in Organic Hydro to show you kids how an OBBT grow should be done! I'll be spicing things up by including every last ingredient in my secret sauce. UVB, hormone treatments, OD floros, foliar tricks and a REAL ScrOG (not this silly non-woven flat-screen training that you ICmag cats seem so fond of). I promise to deliver a sparkling jewel amongst the ICmag grow-diary firmament. Pictorial how-to's, regular updates, full-schedule grow guides, harvest tips, bud porn and smoking impressions galore! All of the things that DrunkenMess can't do!

Even though he can't fight for himself I'd still love to compete with DM's thread. I'll take on every single one of the gardeners who have chosen to try out our tubs. If they can generate a better grams-per-watt yield at a higher quality than what I can produce I will admit defeat.

ScrubNinja, SilverSurferOG, RipVanWeed, and anyone else who posts pics of their OBBT grows in this thread: nothing personal guys but you don't stand a chance! For you this is piloting a new and experimental grow method. For me its gonna be rocking a technique that I know like the back of my hand.

Mr. Wags

You would make me the happiest woman on these forums if you could somehow arrange a competition between this thread and the thread I will be starting here soon. I'm gonna get my ass in gear and work double-time to get my own grow started. This time next week should see me posting pics of my completed grow room and mixing up a fresh set of tubs to incubate. I'm looking to pop beans and get the party started within two weeks of today.

Wheter or not this becomes a real forum-sanctioned competition I am excited beyond belief. You guys thought my first post meant that the stream of OBBT-related info might suffer, but in reality this is gonna be a shot of pure adrenaline for the coverage of this growing style.

You may never see my first post Drunk, you may never get a correct impression of how much you've pissed me off, but believe me: You're going down. I'm gonna CRUSH you using your very own method.

Sit down and strap in ICmag members! I'm gonna introduce you to the OBBTs with a bang! Get ready to learn because the knowledge train is bearing down on ICmag Organic Hydro Station. I can't wait!

 

[LadyLargely]

Well, LadyL, could I ask you a quick question? Is one 5 gallon pail per plant needed or will a four gallon work also?

Meh, the tubs scale well. I've had success with tubs ranging from 2 gallons to 10 gallons. The only important part is that the tubs are deep enough to get at least a 3 inch bath.

Trying to test my knowledge of the method rrog? Trust me buddy, there's nothing that ole DrunkenMess knows about this technique that I don't know just as well. And he's out of practice. I've been growing cannabis with this method for years now. Spare me the pop-quiz. Once my grow diary is up it will become apperent which of us has the OBBTs down better.

 

[rrog]

Trying to test my knowledge of the method rrog? Spare me the pop-quiz.

Well, no. I actually wanted to know. Don't make me cry in front of the guys, OK?

I have 33" of width in my little grow area. The top of a 5 gallon pail is 11" to 12". So I may JUST have enough room to insert three 5 gal pails is why I ask.

Thanks

 

[LadyLargely]

Heh, sorry. That just sounded like a question that Drunk surely would have written a massive rant about somewhere earlier in the forum. Sorry for snappin at ya, I just don't think I've made the greatest of first impressions here on ICmag and now expect DrunkenMess's buddies to try and pick me apart. Defensiveness comes natural to me, but it certainly isn't needed in this setting.

Ole DrunkenMess can get me foaming at the mouth like nobody else in the world. We've got that special kind of friendship. Nobody can piss me off like he can. Don't you worry about a thing. My arrival here only means good stuff for the organic growing community.

 

[mrwags]

HOLY SHIT MR. WAGS I LOVE YOU!!

Seriously man, you are the best fuckin admin EVAR. Tits in cake this is gonna be awesome!

This is not a he-said-she-said situation. It is not a reason to call the science and good info here into question. This is just a personal beef. DrunkenMess mistreated his best friend and I'm sorry, what he did does not warrant civility of any kind!

The anger is starting to subside, I promise to play nice (mostly) from now on.

You see LL I don't specifically call folks out I have to be in general with my posts. I've been on the net since 18k was bangin so I have read a post or 2 and can read between the lines. Do your thread but post your best pics in the Grow Off thread this way the discussions are in yours and the pics and simple updates stay separated. In other words the Grow Off Thread is a no BS thread and shows only the proof that your system and technique work. Trust me it will be better this way and in the future New Members can go to it and SEE what it does without the bickering of what is better Honey or Molasses and so on.

You see LL it was not only you I was talking about you were just the first to break out the in your face smack down and felt instead of a war lets have a way to put EVERYONE'S money where their mouths are and for a good cause, sharing the love of the weed.


KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) My Way Of Life Because I'm Stupid
Mr.Wags

 

[rrog]

No problems at all LadyL. I have read your posts. I can appreciate your position, and defensiveness. It's all good, and I'm just dying to learn more about this technique

 

[rrog]

LadyL, what do you think of the idea of adding the coco mat on top of the Water Zone?

 

[LadyLargely]

Whoopass Mr. Wags!

The grow-off thread sounds like an amazing idea! That will allow it to be a general competition instead of a down-to-the-numbers face-off between me and DM's buddies.

Allowing the users of this forum to vote on an overall winner makes WAY more sense and actually works a ton better for me. I have full confidence that my impending grow is gonna kick ass, but it will have limitations. I'm working with about 350 watts of overdriven floros and as nice as they are the nug density just won't compare to, say, RipVanWeed's 1000 watt vertical HPS.

Putting it to a vote means that things such as expense, ease of the build, simplicity of the nute regiment and other stuff that matters to REAL personal cannabis cultivators will get taken into account. Given this, I don't see how I could loose. Not only will my grow diary be covering a new and exciting grow style, but will also be a serious bang-for-the-buck endeavor.

You're my hero Wags! You've won Admin Of the Year Award in my book!