Info on old Cali lines and breeders.

[Dalaihempy]

There'd be a great book, if the truth about the Haze Brothers, the Emerald Triangle, and the Brotherhood of Eternal Love, among others, could be told.

Check this trailer for 'Orange Sunshine':
Orange Sunshine

Also, check out this zamalito quote:
My theory is that the haze has some amazing Sri Lankan genetics mentioned by BOEL leadership that they acquired on one of their many surfing trips there. Some members of BOEL have stated that while on one of their surfing trips to the island they discovered a small cannabis growing community that produced the finest herb any of them had seen which is saying a lot. It seems likely that seeds or herb would've been brought back. I actually have doubts that there's any thai in the haze at all and there may not even be any Keralian. Sri Lanka is located in the Indian ocean between south India and Thailand and central to ancient trade routes from India, Thailand and southern Africa. I've never heard that the holyweed was bred from BOEL imports but they were running large cannabis production facilities at Big Sur during the era this strain came from.

Great link by the way there was also a brother hood in mauie that mr mauie was part of i thort it was the same one from cali but it isnt the same brotherhood the mauie brother hood from what iv read and heard only worket with cannabis were the cali brotherhood were at one time i belive the largest lsd go to guys in the us.

I actually have doubts that there's any thai in the haze at all

If any of you had ever grown real thia you would see it in haze well i havent grown pure haze but have grown wat id call close to pure haze that being neviles haze even phinos of other haze hybreeds i have grown have exprest phinos that looket very simila.

I dont know much the BOEL hippies but what i know of the haze brothers is they created the real haze they x there best sativas to creat what is called haze and there were diffrent haze lines made by the brothers i cant speek for them or there lines but i belive there first haze line was there best.

Also BOEL grew out doors were the haze brothers grew in greenhouses.

I also know there were many sativa hybreeds in cali on the same direction as haze meaning 100% sativa hybreeds but had diffrent sativas to haze used in them.

I realy want to read info of the old strains the old breeders that created them people like Sandy who is no longer with us these people are what put cali on the map fact but saying that lots of other places around the world and with in the us that also did there bit to but cali intrersts me as i know little of the older lines and growers that created them.

 

[Bluebeard]

Where is Zamalito these days? Anyone heard from him?

Somehow someone had hacked into Zamalito's account here and was reading his pm's before before the hacker deleted the account. At first he thought he was banned, but a cursory view of his old posts does not say banned under his avatar. He is mostly on his own site now but he does still visit from time to time.

Both according to the dates that thai weed was starting to become imported, and Sam. Thai genes were a much later addition to the haze, and only added to the genepool in the last year or two the haze bros were in production, and of course in strains like sssc's burning bush. I don't personally see it in the hazes I have grown, but I obviously have a different experience than hempy. Although you cannot see any resemblance in the modern versions and more than a few will think I'm nuts for saying this but, there are some uniquely thai traits that popped up in the older northern lights samples. This might have been the source of the thai-like genes in the haze hybrids Hempy has grown, especially when some recessive recombinance starts to take hold in an Nl x Haze cross. Mant people describe the early haze plants as being colombian phenos and the longer flowering as thai phenos. However, the colombians being worked with in California at the time were every bit as long flowering as a thai and perhaps even longer than the thais they were working with. The introduction of faster flowering lines in Colombia happened a in the mid-late 70's after the haze bros ceased working with the haze. Pure Colombians are fully acclimated to the equator and are definitely among the longest flowering Sativas. There's also definitely the presence of some type of South Indian and/or Sri Lankan/Bangladeshi genes. The faster flowering phenos are possibly contributed to in part by a central Mexican or Michoacan and maybe some type of central Asian sativa such as a Nepalese, Chitrali or Kashmiri. All of these regions were sources of genes and on the hippy trail for californians at the time, but in the long run, unless you were there, anyone's guess is as good as mine.

One great source for information on early california genes is Robert Pietri's book King Of Nepal. In the book, there are pictures of a 1966 harvest of california orange. He also goes on to talk about Haze being grown in Hawaii by the Brotherhood before it ever arrived in Cali. There are things in the book both that I agree and that I disagree with but it is by far, the single best source on the history of california breeding, followed by old high times issues. There's one high times issue from 1978 which has a great article on the harvest in Big Sur.

While BOEL was known to grow almost solely outdoors, I have seen photographs from people in communes and loosely affiliated with Boel that were growing in Greenhouses, bringing plants indoors at night and were using photoperiod manipulation. After all, if you are having difficulty getting plants to finish before the frost, the logical conclusion is to use a greenhouse or figure out a way to protect the plants from frost. I believe we can be fairly certain in the assumption that the haze bros were not the first people to use a greenhouse to cultivate cannabis in california. I also feel fairly confident in the assumption that some of the many people who obtained a botany and horticultural education from the California university system were applying their knowledge to cannabis in the 1960's. I believe this is part of the reason why California advanced as quickly as it did. The california academic community was very involved with the hippy movement and drug experimentation. I have talked to several California university educated botanists who travelled to Mexico, writing their thesis on the Psilocybin eating Curandero culture as early as the 1960's and as late as the mid 1990's. Most while there were exposed to cannabis in an indigenous setting.

 

[ograskal]

I am personaly tierd of reading cali did this and did that we have the best and cali kush rocks

LMFAO!!!!.....You at it again Hempy.....Grow the Fukk up and get over it already...Why dont you just Move over here to Cali already and quit hatin bro....Cali Kush Rocks Bro...LOL...~ogr

 

[Herbalistic]

Yeah, Cali "Kush" may rock, but they aint the only strains that rock in this BIG world

Let´s respect the wish of the thread starter and talk about them old lines!

No disrespect for anyone..

 

[Guest]

Well as someone who just moved to norcal, I can see a bit of both sides to the arguement. Area is kinda crazy, herb is so mainstream, I'm not used to talking about shit at the hydrostore really, or going to look at rentals and previous tenants leaving behind so much obvious evidence of growing on a massive scale, yet ppl are still like what brings you here, why are you moving into my community?? Very protective. But with everyone blowin it up the quality seems to be suffering on the large scale, most of what I've looked at has been basically a decent cut mershed out to the max. Seems the kushes/deisels have taken over far as indoor goes, seen probly 10 batches of sourd, all but one was merchy, couple good ogs, and a few fake chems and one real one, all the fakes were just sour or some sour/og crosses. That's it haven't seen any other ins all week, outdoor is a little different game. But I'm gonna do what I can, brought all my strains with me and im gonna do my best to blow em up and get new herbs on the streets, really thats the best I can do I'm not a local and can't bring old school stuff out of hiding. I look forward to seeing more of what this beautiful place has to offer.

 

[ograskal]

Yeah, Cali "Kush" may rock, but they aint the only strains that rock in this BIG world

Let´s respect the wish of the thread starter and talk about them old lines!

No disrespect for anyone..

No SHit dude.....I have an arsenal of strains from all around this Big World Bro.. ..I know whats good and whats not...~ogr

 

[Farmer John]

Man raskal I love ya always will. Strange thing Dalai, but Sam has a oldskool Thaihaze cross, I guess you should ask him about it, he seems to know a lot better than most of us together, he is a grumpy old man but hell, he has every goddamn right to be that way, and actually he isnt that grumpy haha, if I had grown and bred for most of my life, and know my shit well...well, I wouldnt even bother coming here in the internets to argue with people that werent even born when these varieties were made...and what comes to california, I have smoked a shitload of different cannabis products from all around the world and must say that they really do have probably the best weed over there, especially the oldskool growers they have GEMS not the shit thats going around these days, modern weed is strong and resinous and pretty and grows nicely indoors but FUCK me all the old skunks, trainwrecks, hazes...shit they grow outdoors...man, they are mind manifesting.

 

[Bluebeard]

I wish that there could be a thread about the Hindu Kush mountains or about old Cali strains without the mention of those 3 or 4 damnedable cuttings. I find it particularly sad that so much stock is placed on those cuttings. First of all cuttings are genetically stagnant, noone is improving anything when growing the same cuttings that everyone else is. Secondly there has been an evolution of the despicable phenomena of cut hording where individuals hold on to cuts like a prized piggy desperately holding on to a monopoly on some trade name and when they do release them there's all sorts of conditions. Everything in our community has become based on names. Nevermind the art of selection from a large population and the combining abilities of individuals, crosses are just made by breeding two names together. It's like a paint by numbers philosophy of breeding. The very reason most of the well known cuttings are circulated as cuttings is because they stand out from the original population they came out of. This almost by definition means that they are highly heterozygous, are not true breeding, and have mediocre combining abilities. This same phenomena is occurring with the so called landrace lines in circulation. Colombian Golds that flower ing 10 weeks, Panama Reds and Thais that flower in 12 etc. This is nothing but the preservation of a name at best so people can say they're breeding with landrace lines or that they're growing pure sativas and capitalize on a name, for which the original pure lines with the real traits and legendary highs flower too long for the "breeders" to be willing to work with. I see threads where professional breeders and respected growers are culling plants from haze populations because they failed to initiate flowering when the grower wanted them to, saying that the plants never flower. No, they do flower, they just take patience. If you want to see the real deal equatorials and perennia phenos, you have to be patient like everyone else. And by culling the perennial phenos from a haze population you are removing the most desirable phenos from the population, that came from landrace lines which were used in the breeding of the haze for a very important reason, and would not have been included to begin with had they not been worth the wait. Let me tell you they are. I have never seen a perennial cannabis plant that was not worth the wait. I would gladly walk over 20 lbs of cali kush to grab 4 ounces off a haze plant which took 12 months + of 12/12 to mature.

 

[Guest]

I wish that there could be a thread about the Hindu Kush mountains or about old Cali strains without the mention of those 3 or 4 damnedable cuttings. I find it particularly sad that so much stock is placed on those cuttings. First of all cuttings are genetically stagnant, noone is improving anything when growing the same cuttings that everyone else is. Secondly there has been an evolution of the despicable phenomena of cut hording where individuals hold on to cuts like a prized piggy desperately holding on to a monopoly on some trade name and when they do release them there's all sorts of conditions. Everything in our community has become based on names. Nevermind the art of selection from a large population and the combining abilities of individuals, crosses are just made by breeding two names together. It's like a paint by numbers philosophy of breeding. The very reason most of the well known cuttings are circulated as cuttings is because they stand out from the original population they came out of. This almost by definition means that they are highly heterozygous, are not true breeding, and have mediocre combining abilities. This same phenomena is occurring with the so called landrace lines in circulation. Colombian Golds that flower ing 10 weeks, Panama Reds and Thais that flower in 12 etc. This is nothing but the preservation of a name at best so people can say they're breeding with landrace lines or that they're growing pure sativas and capitalize on a name, for which the original pure lines with the real traits and legendary highs flower too long for the "breeders" to be willing to work with. I see threads where professional breeders and respected growers are culling plants from haze populations because they failed to initiate flowering when the grower wanted them to, saying that the plants never flower. No, they do flower, they just take patience. If you want to see the real deal equatorials and perennia phenos, you have to be patient like everyone else. And by culling the perennial phenos from a haze population you are removing the most desirable phenos from the population, that came from landrace lines which were used in the breeding of the haze for a very important reason, and would not have been included to begin with had they not been worth the wait. Let me tell you they are. I have never seen a perennial cannabis plant that was not worth the wait. I would gladly walk over 20 lbs of cali kush to grab 4 ounces off a haze plant which took 12 months + of 12/12 to mature.

Its not often I say this, but this guy knows his shit!

This is a beautiful post by a man who obviously has real experience growing marijuana.

Somebody make this cat a moderator!

 

[Farmer John]

Theres great info in old Mel Frank books about the old school afghans, like the ones in the picture from upstate New York, also a lot of pictures and very detailed descriptions of manymany varieties that were around back in 70's and 80's and no doubt in 60's, some very beautiful mexican and colombian plants for example, huge sativas...I'd also like to know much more of the past and tere are plenty of people over here who have witnessed that era of cannabis breeding and cultivating, lets hear it!

 

[word]

Great thread! Only thing is, we cant get clear lineage info on shit bred last year. Wish there was a genetic dna test that would give clear info on lineage which they may have and I'm not aware of. Cali is notorious because its the pioneer state to allow some freedom for growers/users. I believe kush is being bastardized with fakes and knock offs. How many versions of kush can we get that aint kush. And how did chemdog get classified with the kush? Its a bagseed of some western winds from CO. Dudes who used to grow that shit that produced those seeds laugh at the hype. Wish the grower/breeder community would become a more open trade market with genetics to help keep plenty around for the masses who may want a go.

 

[Dalaihempy]

I wish that there could be a thread about the Hindu Kush mountains or about old Cali strains without the mention of those 3 or 4 damnedable cuttings. I find it particularly sad that so much stock is placed on those cuttings. First of all cuttings are genetically stagnant, noone is improving anything when growing the same cuttings that everyone else is. Secondly there has been an evolution of the despicable phenomena of cut hording where individuals hold on to cuts like a prized piggy desperately holding on to a monopoly on some trade name and when they do release them there's all sorts of conditions. Everything in our community has become based on names. Nevermind the art of selection from a large population and the combining abilities of individuals, crosses are just made by breeding two names together. It's like a paint by numbers philosophy of breeding. The very reason most of the well known cuttings are circulated as cuttings is because they stand out from the original population they came out of. This almost by definition means that they are highly heterozygous, are not true breeding, and have mediocre combining abilities. This same phenomena is occurring with the so called landrace lines in circulation. Colombian Golds that flower ing 10 weeks, Panama Reds and Thais that flower in 12 etc. This is nothing but the preservation of a name at best so people can say they're breeding with landrace lines or that they're growing pure sativas and capitalize on a name, for which the original pure lines with the real traits and legendary highs flower too long for the "breeders" to be willing to work with. I see threads where professional breeders and respected growers are culling plants from haze populations because they failed to initiate flowering when the grower wanted them to, saying that the plants never flower. No, they do flower, they just take patience. If you want to see the real deal equatorials and perennia phenos, you have to be patient like everyone else. And by culling the perennial phenos from a haze population you are removing the most desirable phenos from the population, that came from landrace lines which were used in the breeding of the haze for a very important reason, and would not have been included to begin with had they not been worth the wait. Let me tell you they are. I have never seen a perennial cannabis plant that was not worth the wait. I would gladly walk over 20 lbs of cali kush to grab 4 ounces off a haze plant which took 12 months + of 12/12 to mature.

You hit on some realy good points in this replie Bluebeard.

I started on pure sativas grew them and educated my self on them some had names others we just new the location as in country they were from and we had no idear of there strain name.

The thing i notice with a lot of lines that are being called old sativas is they dont match wat i rember them to look like when we grew them even the times some of these sativas took to sex let alone fully flower dont come close to wat i rember them and dont match wat are being posted i try at times to bring this up but it only starts drama.

I have yet to see a pan red sat posted like we grew i have yet to see many old sativas that were grown that people claim to be growing match up to wat i rember.

Also you hit on a good point about how many growers cull plants that take to long to flower me i never cull untill i sample them and i have seen a few long flowering haze hybreeds that took 17/18 weeks to flower yet from clone come in at 8/9 weeks and they grow and look like pure sats.


Even if they did still come in at 17/18 weeks to flower i would still do them becouse of the quilty in there smoke.

I think the only true way to select is realy smoke test.





ograskal

LMFAO!!!!.....You at it again Hempy.....Grow the Fukk up and get over it already...Why dont you just Move over here to Cali already and quit hatin bro....Cali Kush Rocks Bro...LOL...~ogr


Mate cant you grasp that cali was more than kush hybreeds ?.

Its about lorneing about the old cali lines and there breeders.

I dont need to move to cali mate were i live the weathers like southern cali and it gets a lot warmer more north you go so we have the weather surf culture and no gang bangers so maybe you should move her just dont bring them clones lol.




Heres just one old cali line its called blue grass was a mex sat hybreed not sure of the breeder .

Theres many more.

 

[zoolander]

wow I grew up in cali been here all my life and seen alot of herb in the eighties and heard stories from my pops about stuff in the seventies that I think are better then the kushes but not to say the kushes don't have thier place and it is great smoke and cali growers are great but all over the world has great growers.

 

[jollygt]

Actually, I agree with hempy. IMO it is kinda sad that the current growers are dependent on the circulation of genetically stagnant and often mediocre cuttings, but the grower/breeders of the 60's and 70's had a lot of things going on which no longer are occurring. First of all, it appears that for a period organized groups of california growers were taking imported seed, growing it and selling it as an imported product. Acapulco Gold and Zacatecas Purple are some of these lines which a measurable portion of which that was for sale throughout America was actually being grown in California and the southwest. Although a little before my time I do remember frequently obtaining Nigerian herb which was the best cannabis I have ever smoked that I didnt grow myself, and obviously locally grown, because I later met the grower, a kindly boomer aged man who grew these plants out in the Arizona desert and had even supplied the grateful dead in the 70's. During the 60's and early 70's the most well connected individuals in California had access to some amazing breeding stock, although it still did require sorting through many plants to find suitable breeding parents.

Even as an American I always felt that California didn't really deserve its title as a cannabis mecca. When the comparatively small area of North Georgia, Western North Carolina, Eastern Tennessee, Eastern Kentucky, Southwestern Virginia and West Virginia produce as much as the entire state of California which is much larger and much more populated. This region is also the birthplace of mass cultivated potent American grown cannabis during World War I when American pharmaceutical interests could no longer acquire sifficient quantities of cannabis from India to satisfy the growing demand for cannabis products in the united states. Companies such as Parke Davis imported seeds from places such as Northern India, Pakistan, Samarkand and Yarkand which were capable of producing potent herb which finished on time in southern Appalachia, and thus the first potent products made from Cannabis Americana were born. The potency of the Parke Davis product was thoroughly documented in unbiased scientific studies and was very close in potency to the Indian product.

if i coud give you rep i would! dont for get arkansas missouri and iowa. seems like the only people who got to travel back then were cali kats.

 

[S4vvy]

off topic

off topic

Well as someone who just moved to norcal, I can see a bit of both sides to the arguement. Area is kinda crazy, herb is so mainstream, I'm not used to talking about shit at the hydrostore really, or going to look at rentals and previous tenants leaving behind so much obvious evidence of growing on a massive scale, yet ppl are still like what brings you here, why are you moving into my community?? Very protective. But with everyone blowin it up the quality seems to be suffering on the large scale, most of what I've looked at has been basically a decent cut mershed out to the max. Seems the kushes/deisels have taken over far as indoor goes, seen probly 10 batches of sourd, all but one was merchy, couple good ogs, and a few fake chems and one real one, all the fakes were just sour or some sour/og crosses. That's it haven't seen any other ins all week, outdoor is a little different game. But I'm gonna do what I can, brought all my strains with me and im gonna do my best to blow em up and get new herbs on the streets, really thats the best I can do I'm not a local and can't bring old school stuff out of hiding. I look forward to seeing more of what this beautiful place has to offer.

Yea don't make a habit of that. Talkin about growing in the hydrostore is for people who like jail or early graves. Here's some advice to you: If you're anywhere near the east bay trying to do your thing Please stay humble and be quiet about your biz. I can't count on one hand how many newcomers hit the scene only to be sent back home broke after being robbed and/or kidnapped. Good luck to you

 

[Guest]

some valid info hempy......you must also include the Vietnam vets who brought back some of the finer examples of SE Asian lines..........can remember how the herm tendencies increased when these lines were introduced, but so did the psycoactivity of the high.........always a tradeoff.............and had a few friends who were paid to travel to surf hotspots by Surfing Mag. and always brought back the local variety to sample which typically had a few seed..............

 

[Guest]

Some intereseting information I found while researching.

1967 "Smash", the first hashish oil appears. Red Lebanese reaches California.


Late 1960s-Early 1970s The Brotherhood popularizes Afghani hashish.

Almost all of the Dutch varieties contain germ plasm from one or more of the founding genetic building blocks brought from North America. Cultivars such as Original Haze, Hindu Kush, Afghani No. 1, and Skunk No. 1 were established in California before their seeds were taken to the Netherlands in the early 1980s. As these cultivars were relatively stable seed varieties, breeders had a greater chance of selecting a favorable male plant as a pollen source for breeding. Cultivars such as Northern Lights, Big Bud, Hash Plant, and G-13 went to the Netherlands from the Pacific Northwest as rooted female cuttings. There were never males of these varieties, and, therefore, commercial seeds were all made by crosses with a male of a different variety such as Skunk No. 1, or more rarely by masculinizing a female cutting to produce pollen for self-pollinating.

The Original Haze is a late-maturing variety from Central California and was almost always grown in greenhouses, allowing it to finish in December or January. Original Haze was always connoisseur stash, and even in the 1970s it sold for as much as $200 an ounce. Original Haze is a pure sativa stabilized hybrid arising from crossing all of the best females with a male of a different imported sativa variety each year. Starting with Colombian/ Mexican hybrids grown from seeds from the first crop, a South Indian male plant was used as a pollen source the second year, and a Thai male plant was used the third year. Depending on which year Haze seeds were collected, they resembled either Colombian, South Indian, or Thai plants. Original Haze varies in taste from citrus Thai notes through the gamut of sativa highlights to the deep spicy purple Colombian flavor most common in Dutch Haze cultivars. Although Haze has been available in the Netherlands since the early 1980s, it gained wide popularity only in the mid 1990s. Increasing levels of connoisseurship led to higher prices for exotic and flavorful (but later maturing and more costly to produce) Haze hybrids in preference to the redundant plethora of Dutch Skunk/Northern Lights type buds. Original Haze presently makes up part of about 15 percent of varieties available in the Netherlands, and its frequency is steadily increasing.

-Courtesy of RC Clarke

 

[Bluebeard]

I always wondered why they outcrossed to new stock every year, until it hit me. I believe they came to the conclusion that inbreeding outside of the tropics means a loss in potency. Even reading MJ botany which was from the mid 1980's, that belief is still kind of implied a few times.

 

[Chili_berkster]

i remember the mid 80's.... Red haired sinsemilla from cali was the rage. It was skunky and very expando with a rushing high that would turn your eyes red and dry the throat. Lime green colored bud with vibrant red hairs. Kinda had a fresh spice smell with the skunky overtones. Not much made it to us but what did make it was highly prized. I saved all the seeds but lost them somehow over the years.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Bluebeard,
Parke Davis did grow Cannabis in the USA, but the way they confirmed the potency was with the dog ataxia test:
"The symptoms caused by Cannabis indica in the dog recall those of alcoholism in the human being. There is at first a slight loss of control in the hind legs so that the animal staggers as he walks, later the ataxia becomes so marked that the dog is unable to stand up without leaning against some object, and about this time begins to show distinct drowsiness, and may eventually pass into a heavy sleep.
Use, adult dogs which weigh less than 15 kilogrammes and which are susceptible to the action of Cannabis. The dogs must not be fed for twelve hours before being used and observations should be made within one hour after administration The same animal must not be used for testing purposes at shorter intervals than three days. Administer the fluidextract in gelatin capsules by the mouth."
So the Cannabis was potent but what does that mean? Smokers may or may not of liked it.

-SamS