Hydrofarm Habitat Tents - A Warning
- Thread starter Mr. Bongjangles
- Start date
Boxy Brown said:
PVC should be avoided wherever possible. For making hydro systems, especially, anything in contact with the solution MUST be uPVC not PVC
uPVC vs PVC.
The u stands for UnPlasticised, think raw.....Plasticisers [with all the plant killing etc. chemicals in] are used to soften uPVC to make PVC.
Black hydro feed pipe is uPVC, shiny coloured garden hoses are PVC. Aggressive nutrient solutions leach very nasty chemicals from softened plastic.
Raijin
Member
Habitat was released in the States and the rest of the world last year. It was never released in Europe. That letter was BS. Hydrofarm has stopped selling their Habitat because it is killing plants just like the Sunhut, Hydrohut and Homebox. They haven't admitted anything yet, just stopped selling them. The lady who wrote that letter answers the phones at hydrofarm-- just call the main line and you'll hear her voice and name! It was a fabricated story to pacify you.
TheStarJacqui
New member
Mr. Bongjangles said:
Its pretty true to my own experience and room mates experience working in a large hydro shop in San Diego CA.
Don't be quick to dismiss!
TheStarJacqui said:
Hi TheStarJacqui,
Let me be specific.
The Hydrohut and other bad tents are likely made out of PVC. Hydrohut doesn't mention what their tent is made out of, but HTG supply, who sells one of the identical knock offs, says specifically their tent is made with PVC.
Check out their page here where they say it:
http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=51322
So Rajin is way off on that one, and will continue to be so until he/she can come up with facts they can share with us here, not just saying "facts were checked" LOL
As for the Homebox, they state their tent is made with Polyethylene (PE), not PU as Rajin also falsely stated.
Rajin also says the sizes won't hold a trey properly.. He/she is way off there.. If you have a 4x4 tray, you should get the 4.9 foot Jardin tent, as the extra space around the sides is needed for plants at the edge and air movement.. I've definitely seen the posts of people complaining about the sides of their 4x4 tents getting sucked in against their 4x4 trays & plants due to having a negative pressure environment, which is the preferred environment so not even a special case or anything. This person may not agree with the extra space/design idea, but to say the Jardin tents "won't hold a decent size tray here in the states" is laughable.
Rajin also says the corners on the Jardin tent are flimsy, but they are made of similar or stronger plastic than the ones on the Homebox he/she claims to have, so it is totally unfair to say that about the Jardin tent without any personal experience, and without saying the same for the Homebox tent he/she does have experience with.
Wouldn't it make more sense to say "and it has plastic corners which I didn't like on my Homebox" if that is how dude felt about plastic corners? Instead dude just bashes the Jardin tent for having them, which strikes me as very odd.
Same goes for the comment about air movement.. If you feel that way about the Jardin tent, again without experience, it is way off base to say so without mentioning they are identical to the ducting socks on the Homebox which dude claims to have.
Just a bunch of bashing on a product this person doesn't have any experience with according to their own post about it, and criticisms that could be directed at the identical parts of a product the person does have. Doesn't sound right to me..
So anyways, this is why I feel literally everything said in that post was inaccurate, from the things claimed to be based on fact, and the things of a speculative nature.
Hope that clears things up, as I'm not the type to jump in and completely dismiss what someone is saying unless I really believe it to be off-base, which I still believe to be the case here.
Raijin
Member
Mr. Bongjangles said:
While I appreciate Bongjangles specificity, it must be true to hold water and it isn't. HH does mention what their tent is made of in their faq section. I checked a long time ago. Similarly I called Sunlight Supply and Hydrofarm about their tents when I did a test on all three of those and the Homebox. Why nobody is hounding the two giants here, Hydrofarm and Sunlight is beyond me! They have yet to own up to their problems!
The tents are "likely made out of PVC". Completely made up. This isn't specific, it's just false! There is no PVC in the HH, the Habitat, the SunHut or the Homebox. At least the Homebox you'll believe Bongjangles because you read their site!
Hydrofarm makes the Habitat and Sunlight makes the Sunhut and those are both copies of the Hydrohut. Homebox has mainly been sold in the EU but did get some momentum here in the states for a while. GTG sells a copycat tent piece if junk. It is separate from the crowd, or the big 4 companies anyway.
I was at the Spannabis show in Barcelona last month. Homebox sponsored the show. In my opinion it is because they are on their last legs. European boards are strewn with people with plant yellowing problems from the Homeboxes (we all know why here in the states already), but not many people have made the connection back to the Homebox. It is quite obvious that Hombox is feeling the pressure becauase they have posted on their own website about problems with other tents. They went so far as to say that they use PE which I personallhy don't believe at all. I have no proof, and I don't care to provide any. I just don't believe them. They have not admitted to an obvious problem spreading across the EU.
In walks the Dark Room. Mr. Bongjangles, with all due respect, and I do not wish to irk you in any way, you sound like you work for the guys distributing the Darkroom. You blindly post what their website says as if it's the gospel. Did you read the part about 97% IR blocking or thereabouts? BS! Pure BS! To block IR you must reflect and you MUST absorb. You can only absorb with something that does so. A layer of mylar reflects, it does not absorb. Check it with an IR camera if you don't believe me, you can easily rent one in any city.
Homebox is very worried about the Darkroom in the EU. My friends tell me that everyone is ordering the Darkroom now in the EU.
One of my buddies, a teacher, is delaminating the Darkroom. He is checking to see what is inside to see if they can substantiate their claims, lofty as they are.
I only have tried the street version so far, so my disappointment is soley based on that model, not the better one from what I understand. Yes, I found the plastic corners old and cheap. The Sunhut, HH and Habitat all have metal corners! We hang more stuff in our tents in the US than the Europeans do. All companies stateside moved to metal corners a long time ago! I also didn't like the super thin poles. They are not made to hold any significant weight. All other brands have much thicker poles. I do understand that the better Darkroom has thicker metal.
The ducting socks on the Homebox? They suck just like the ones on the Darkroom. Like I said, tents that are being built for the US market have metal corners, duct adapters that work both for intake and exhaust and wont' suck closed like duct socks! A ducting flange is far superior to a duct sock, just my opinion.
I'm surprised that nobody is upset with the flimsy material of the Darkroom. I'm not trying to pick any fights but I really am surprised. The one constant that I had in all 4 tents that I tried was a solid material wall. The Darkroom just doesn't provide thick walls. They are easy to rip, I ripped mine!
Funny Bongjangles how you keep juxtaposing what I said to the Homebox. Why not compare the darkroom to a tent made for the states?
Ahhhhh becuase the Darkroom is made in China, sold to Europe and then finally to the states. I learned this in Barcelona at the show. The sizes are funny, they are metric just like the homebox. The darkroom is massed produced in China and still comes in a carrying case like it did last year at the camera store where it was a film changing booth. If you don't believe me, check it out yourself. Ok, it didn't have duct socks for air movement and a double floor but it IS a tent made for the photo industry! Nobody told the Chinese that we don't need the carrying case anymore.
I'll keep you posted as to what my friend finds inside the darkroom walls. In the mean time, I will order the more expensive version of the darkroom and give it a go.
I will admit that it did not kill my plants!
As I said, "likely" because I don't know exactly what the tents are made of. You, on the other hand, spout off false information as though you know it to be true. I think this distinction is already obvious, but I will call you out on it nonetheless.Raijin said:
Raijin said:
Provide links.. This is BS just like everything else you say Rajin.
BTW - this site is based in Europe, and is the predominant site for cannabis cultivation on the web.. So who do you think you're fooling saying the talk is on other sites but not here??
Raijin said:
Well man, because you have no proof, and state your ridiculous opinions as fact, I just don't believe you!
Raijin said:
I own a darkroom, and as such, have posted nothing blindly. You can suggest I work for them, which is ridiculous speculation like everything else you say, but that is not the case.
Raijin said:
Again, all you do is speculate about products you don't have, and make bizarre statements about US vs. European growers. The corner pieces in the Darkroom are just fine.. Just stop talking trash about products you don't own.
Raijin said:
You already made it clear you don't have experience with the professional version of the darkroom tent. And come on.. You've got to be the most careless person in the world if you ripped your grow tent. I'm 99% sure you made that up, in fact.
Raijin said:
Rajin, you act like that is a big secret, but it says "made in China/PRC" on the box. And who cares what the tent is made for, assuming that is even true.
The darkroom tent is awesome. Get over it, whatever your deal is man.
Raijin said:
We don't need to hear your BS about what your friend finds "in" the darkroom walls.. I've cut holes in mine.. It is cloth stuff on one side, and reflective stuff on the other.
Have fun replying with a bunch more BS there man. Just know, I'm gonna call you on all of it, because I like this site and won't let some fool spread misinformation to my real brothers and sisters here.
if you want a dark room call green coast hydro either in Santa Barbara, Long Beach or Orange, CA. I was at the orange one when the truck dropped off their order. They got about 50 of them in. That was the most tents I've ever seen. I still use my 3 by 3 hydrohut, but it's an older one.
They also give 20% off retail on all products.
They also give 20% off retail on all products.
InjectTruth
Active member
Has anyone had problems with the HTG tents? I have one, and Id like to think its not causing problems, but the mothers in it are doing weird things, and they arent the first mothers Ive ever kept...
Rajin,
Your response is as twisted and misleading as everything else you've posted here. Do you think people will be fooled by you quoting my post out of context? Or by trying to change the subject on your original claims?
The links you need to post are not to the Hydrohut site (thanks for trying to make me look foolish by pretending I was talking about something else though), but to the discussions you claim are all over other cannabis sites about how the Homebox is putting off poisonous gas.
That is what you said, but no longer seem to want to defend.
That one dude.. Back it up, should be very easy if it is true.
BTW - when did I say anything about the IR abilities of the Jardin tent?
Never, fool - so stop putting words into my mouth.
YOU are the only one who mentioned anything about that.
When you post something that isn't full of half-truths or outright lies, I will leave you be.
Your response is as twisted and misleading as everything else you've posted here. Do you think people will be fooled by you quoting my post out of context? Or by trying to change the subject on your original claims?
The links you need to post are not to the Hydrohut site (thanks for trying to make me look foolish by pretending I was talking about something else though), but to the discussions you claim are all over other cannabis sites about how the Homebox is putting off poisonous gas.
That is what you said, but no longer seem to want to defend.
rajin said:
That one dude.. Back it up, should be very easy if it is true.
BTW - when did I say anything about the IR abilities of the Jardin tent?
Never, fool - so stop putting words into my mouth.
YOU are the only one who mentioned anything about that.
When you post something that isn't full of half-truths or outright lies, I will leave you be.
Texas Kid
Member
Homebox information directly from their website
Lately, we have had an increasing number of customers and retailers approaching us with questions and concerns about some problems they have heard of with grow boxes. Some were simple problems like the cover material becoming brittle with use or a strange smell to the boxes when they are new (due to outgasing); other problems ranged from weird, complex to some that were a bit frightening like plants yellowing and dying within the grow boxes. Everybody wanted to know if these things could happen with an Original Homebox as well. The answer is "No."
How can we be so sure? Let me explain.
Our Homeboxes were on the market for over 3 years before the first imitations appeared. In that time we have not received one single complaint. And, we can assure everyone, that all these problems will definitely not occur with any of our products which are of the highest quality.
When staring the inventing process of the portable grow box we named Homebox, finding the perfect material needed for the cover was a huge issue for us. The demands were set fast:
Durable and tough but not too heavy
Lightproof
Reflecting inside
Soon it was clear, that it had to be several materials, combined to one. Looking only at these perimeters, Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) seemed to be the best solution, followed by Polyurethane (PU), which has very similar properties. It is easy to laminate, tough and relatively cheap.
But we also had clear demands concerning the protection of:
The users and consumers health
The environment
Now, looking at these factors, both PVC and PU were instantly not a choice any more.
We researched a lot, and after long time and many investments into trials and tests, we found the perfect combination for our Material.
It consists of 3 layers:
on the outside we use webbed Polyamid (PA), for strength and durability and to make sowing possible
as a middle layer, we use black Polyethylene (PE) to guarantee that it is lightproof
the inner layer is white PE to ensure maximum reflection and perfect ability to clean
Why did we choose to use PA and PE instead of PVC or PU? And why is that so important in reference to the occurring problems?
To explain that, let us peek a bit into material science. What are the different characteristics of PVC, PU; PA and PE?
PVC:
Polyvinyl chloride is a thermoplastic polymer. Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) is unique in its high chlorine and additives (softeners) content, which makes it an environmental poison throughout its life cycle. Vinyl chloride is a known human carcinogen (BUA 1986, 1987, 1993; Gray et al. 2000, Foster 2000, Ema et al. 2001, Kavlock et al. 2002a, 2002b, 2002c). PVC releases dioxin and other persistent organic pollutants during its manufacture and disposal and cannot be readily recycled due to it chlorine and additive content.
Workers in PVC production were getting sick (lung and joint problems). This was soon known as the so called VC-disease.
Furthermore, additives are not bound to the plastic and leach out. To make PVC soft, a lot of softeners have to be added. One of the most commonly used softeners is di-ethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP). Flexible PVC products typically contain 30 to 40 percent DEHP by weight, but that figure can reach 80 percent in applications where flexibility is critical. DEHP is known to be hormone disrupting, and otherwise health damaging (Ema et al. 1993, 1994, 1998; Shiota et al. 1980; Shiota und Nishimura 1982; Kavlock et al. 2002). This is especially true for children and genital organs. It was abandoned by the USA and EU last years, but only for children toys, and only in these Countries. No one knows what softeners are used in the PVC that is produced and used in products imported from China, for example.
PU:
Polyurethane (PU) is mainly used in insulation and soft/foamed products like carpet underlay. It uses several hazardous intermediates and creates numerous hazardous by-products. These include phosgene, isocyanates, toluene, diamines, and the ozone-depleting gases methylene chloride and CFCs, as well as halogenated flame retardants and pigments. The burning of PU releases numerous hazardous chemicals such as isocyanates, carbon dioxide, hydrogen cyanide, PAHs and dioxins.
PE:
Polyolefins such as Polyethylene (PE) are simpler polymer structures that do not need plasticizers, although they do use additives such as UV and heat stabilizers. The polyolefins pose fewer risks and have the highest potential for mechanical recycling. Both PE and PP are versatile, and can be designed to replace almost all PVC applications. PE can be made either hard, or very flexible, without the use of plasticizers.
In comparison with PVC, PE uses fewer problematic additives, has reduced leaching potential in landfills, reduced potential for dioxin formation during burning (PE burns completely into CO2 and H2O) and reduced technical problems and costs during recycling.
PA:
Polyamids can occur both naturally, examples being proteins, such as wool and silk, and can be made artificially, one example is Nylon. They have many characteristics that make them perfect for fabric production: lightweight, elastic, stainable, mothproof, tearproof, do not decay and are resistant against leach as well as creases.
After this short excursion into material science, it should be clear why the PVC used in the mock copies most likely is the reason for the occurring problems.
We from EASTSIDE-impex invested a lot of time and money to find the right partner in China, who is able to process PE and PA into the material we use. It was not easy, but we knew we could not go for the alternative (PVC).
Our philosophy is that the best way to earn money is through happy, healthy and safe customers, not through maximised profit.
R&D department EASTSIDE-impex
We´ve got you covered
Links and references:
http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/DEHP-Infants-At-Risk.htm
http://www.teesvalley-jsu.gov.uk/old/dicidauk/keyissues/PVCEU/PVCEUindex2.htm
http://www.wecf.eu/english/articles/2004/09/pvc_ban_extended.php
http://www.pharosproject.net/wiki/index.php?title=Asthma_&_PVC_flooring
http://archive.greenpeace.org/toxics/pvcdatabase/bad.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PVC
NOTE: we found many more good links in German, but not so many in English. This was a bit odd for us, but that’s how it is. Just for your reference, we give them as well:
PVC: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinylchlorid
PE: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylen
http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemistry/kunststoffe/polyethylen.htm
PA: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamid http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemistry/kunststoffe/amid.htm
Info on softeners: http://www.umweltbundesamt.de/gesundheit/stoffe/weichmacher.htm
Info on DEHP: http://www.allum.de/index.php?mod=noxe&n_id=19
DFG research on PVC-Softeners: http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/studien/bericht...
Further info on Phtalates: http://www.arbeitsmedizin.uni-erlangen.de/Koch_Phthalate.htm
ps. Corrected Hydrohut tents are still having the exact same problem as before even after being corrected in the proprietary process that was supposed to cure it all.
Tex
Lately, we have had an increasing number of customers and retailers approaching us with questions and concerns about some problems they have heard of with grow boxes. Some were simple problems like the cover material becoming brittle with use or a strange smell to the boxes when they are new (due to outgasing); other problems ranged from weird, complex to some that were a bit frightening like plants yellowing and dying within the grow boxes. Everybody wanted to know if these things could happen with an Original Homebox as well. The answer is "No."
How can we be so sure? Let me explain.
Our Homeboxes were on the market for over 3 years before the first imitations appeared. In that time we have not received one single complaint. And, we can assure everyone, that all these problems will definitely not occur with any of our products which are of the highest quality.
When staring the inventing process of the portable grow box we named Homebox, finding the perfect material needed for the cover was a huge issue for us. The demands were set fast:
Durable and tough but not too heavy
Lightproof
Reflecting inside
Soon it was clear, that it had to be several materials, combined to one. Looking only at these perimeters, Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) seemed to be the best solution, followed by Polyurethane (PU), which has very similar properties. It is easy to laminate, tough and relatively cheap.
But we also had clear demands concerning the protection of:
The users and consumers health
The environment
Now, looking at these factors, both PVC and PU were instantly not a choice any more.
We researched a lot, and after long time and many investments into trials and tests, we found the perfect combination for our Material.
It consists of 3 layers:
on the outside we use webbed Polyamid (PA), for strength and durability and to make sowing possible
as a middle layer, we use black Polyethylene (PE) to guarantee that it is lightproof
the inner layer is white PE to ensure maximum reflection and perfect ability to clean
Why did we choose to use PA and PE instead of PVC or PU? And why is that so important in reference to the occurring problems?
To explain that, let us peek a bit into material science. What are the different characteristics of PVC, PU; PA and PE?
PVC:
Polyvinyl chloride is a thermoplastic polymer. Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) is unique in its high chlorine and additives (softeners) content, which makes it an environmental poison throughout its life cycle. Vinyl chloride is a known human carcinogen (BUA 1986, 1987, 1993; Gray et al. 2000, Foster 2000, Ema et al. 2001, Kavlock et al. 2002a, 2002b, 2002c). PVC releases dioxin and other persistent organic pollutants during its manufacture and disposal and cannot be readily recycled due to it chlorine and additive content.
Workers in PVC production were getting sick (lung and joint problems). This was soon known as the so called VC-disease.
Furthermore, additives are not bound to the plastic and leach out. To make PVC soft, a lot of softeners have to be added. One of the most commonly used softeners is di-ethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP). Flexible PVC products typically contain 30 to 40 percent DEHP by weight, but that figure can reach 80 percent in applications where flexibility is critical. DEHP is known to be hormone disrupting, and otherwise health damaging (Ema et al. 1993, 1994, 1998; Shiota et al. 1980; Shiota und Nishimura 1982; Kavlock et al. 2002). This is especially true for children and genital organs. It was abandoned by the USA and EU last years, but only for children toys, and only in these Countries. No one knows what softeners are used in the PVC that is produced and used in products imported from China, for example.
PU:
Polyurethane (PU) is mainly used in insulation and soft/foamed products like carpet underlay. It uses several hazardous intermediates and creates numerous hazardous by-products. These include phosgene, isocyanates, toluene, diamines, and the ozone-depleting gases methylene chloride and CFCs, as well as halogenated flame retardants and pigments. The burning of PU releases numerous hazardous chemicals such as isocyanates, carbon dioxide, hydrogen cyanide, PAHs and dioxins.
PE:
Polyolefins such as Polyethylene (PE) are simpler polymer structures that do not need plasticizers, although they do use additives such as UV and heat stabilizers. The polyolefins pose fewer risks and have the highest potential for mechanical recycling. Both PE and PP are versatile, and can be designed to replace almost all PVC applications. PE can be made either hard, or very flexible, without the use of plasticizers.
In comparison with PVC, PE uses fewer problematic additives, has reduced leaching potential in landfills, reduced potential for dioxin formation during burning (PE burns completely into CO2 and H2O) and reduced technical problems and costs during recycling.
PA:
Polyamids can occur both naturally, examples being proteins, such as wool and silk, and can be made artificially, one example is Nylon. They have many characteristics that make them perfect for fabric production: lightweight, elastic, stainable, mothproof, tearproof, do not decay and are resistant against leach as well as creases.
After this short excursion into material science, it should be clear why the PVC used in the mock copies most likely is the reason for the occurring problems.
We from EASTSIDE-impex invested a lot of time and money to find the right partner in China, who is able to process PE and PA into the material we use. It was not easy, but we knew we could not go for the alternative (PVC).
Our philosophy is that the best way to earn money is through happy, healthy and safe customers, not through maximised profit.
R&D department EASTSIDE-impex
We´ve got you covered
Links and references:
http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/DEHP-Infants-At-Risk.htm
http://www.teesvalley-jsu.gov.uk/old/dicidauk/keyissues/PVCEU/PVCEUindex2.htm
http://www.wecf.eu/english/articles/2004/09/pvc_ban_extended.php
http://www.pharosproject.net/wiki/index.php?title=Asthma_&_PVC_flooring
http://archive.greenpeace.org/toxics/pvcdatabase/bad.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PVC
NOTE: we found many more good links in German, but not so many in English. This was a bit odd for us, but that’s how it is. Just for your reference, we give them as well:
PVC: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinylchlorid
PE: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylen
http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemistry/kunststoffe/polyethylen.htm
PA: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamid http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemistry/kunststoffe/amid.htm
Info on softeners: http://www.umweltbundesamt.de/gesundheit/stoffe/weichmacher.htm
Info on DEHP: http://www.allum.de/index.php?mod=noxe&n_id=19
DFG research on PVC-Softeners: http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/studien/bericht...
Further info on Phtalates: http://www.arbeitsmedizin.uni-erlangen.de/Koch_Phthalate.htm
ps. Corrected Hydrohut tents are still having the exact same problem as before even after being corrected in the proprietary process that was supposed to cure it all.
Tex
Black/White poly is fine. I've grown in rooms covered in it without any problems at all. It may be made of similar materials but it is not toxic. There are plenty of grow rooms here on ICmag with the walls covered in it and I don't see these people complaining about strange plant toxicities.
-Funk
-Funk
rr14 said:
Thanks for the tip. Called them up today... looks like they are only stocking the "Street" version.... I asked about the heavy duty version and the guy had no clue what I was talking about. He was nice enough though to look into it and call me back if he is able to get me one.
Raijin
Member
Here is your proof McCarthy
Here is your proof McCarthy
I disagree with your characterization of what I said and I disagree with your blanket approval for the Dark Room. Accusing me of lying is beyond the pale.
You posted all of the supposed attributes from the Dark Room straight from a seller's website as if to portray to the whole world that what they posted was the gospel. All of those posted attributes are not true and you should acknowledge as much. If you cannot do that, you are not being intellectually honest. This is what I was referring to about the IR.
The Dark Room is not light tight. It is full of holes from the sewing needle that made it. You accused me of not owning one. I own two different models now and I've been over the Dark Room quite a bit by now. The zipper is horrible and needs revamping. However, I do find MANY postive qualities about the Dark Room. It just wasn't built to a high standard of workmanship. The poles are aluminum and won't hold the kind of weight that I want to hang from a tent. My criticisms are valid.
You choose to call me a fool, so be it. You don't matter in my life. The reason that refinding posts on Euro boards is so hard is that I was with people in Europe that spoke many languages. They found the posts in their native tongues when we were all together and we sent the info to Homebox. They in turn put out the long-winded message about plastics. East Side Impex is comprised of two people and one is in jail right now in Germany. This is common knowledge with many people in the industry in Holland and Germany. They chose to pretend that there is no problem so they wouldn't fold. Dark Room sales in Europe are huge right now and biting into their market share something fierce. I'm not judging their actions I am simply stating that they did indeed lie to the public about what is in their tents and that they have no problem.
This link is in Spanish
http://www.cannabiscafe.net/foros/showthread.php?t=96498&highlight=homebox
This link has a nice description and pics -- in English
http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=111775
I am not going to refind everything that my friends were able to during a work session together. Furthermore, I have no time for this folly. You seem to want to fight about something that is rather clear to many people. As was said by HydroHuts, the different tent's material is being made by one machine in China and the problem is logically and physically world-wide.
Now a large company like Hydrofarm puts its Habitat back onto the market as if nothing was wrong with it last month when they put it on stop sale nationwide.
Forgive me Mr. Bongjangles if I didn't rush to post some links for you, I was travelling for my work. Now that I have posted what you claimed that I couldn't, you stand corrected.
What you need to understand Bongjangles is that people in the US, in England and those who have a decent grasp of English in many foreign countries can all get together here or on a few other sites and discuss a problem in a very thorough manner. Those who do not speak English or more importantly cannot write English so well, are SOL. They have smaller groups on more insignificant sites. The power of the people on this site to collectively figure out a problem and help to make change is enormous. Due to this one reason, a common language, there is more info about the tent problem here than anywhere. People in many foreign countries still haven't put the plant death problem to the tent they own yet! They have no clue and aren't getting any help on the matter! Those smaller sites in those less used languages have people with actual plant death problems caused by their tents. They don't have the power of this very group to which you not only belong but also contribute greatly.
Here is your proof McCarthy
Mr. Bongjangles said:
I disagree with your characterization of what I said and I disagree with your blanket approval for the Dark Room. Accusing me of lying is beyond the pale.
You posted all of the supposed attributes from the Dark Room straight from a seller's website as if to portray to the whole world that what they posted was the gospel. All of those posted attributes are not true and you should acknowledge as much. If you cannot do that, you are not being intellectually honest. This is what I was referring to about the IR.
The Dark Room is not light tight. It is full of holes from the sewing needle that made it. You accused me of not owning one. I own two different models now and I've been over the Dark Room quite a bit by now. The zipper is horrible and needs revamping. However, I do find MANY postive qualities about the Dark Room. It just wasn't built to a high standard of workmanship. The poles are aluminum and won't hold the kind of weight that I want to hang from a tent. My criticisms are valid.
You choose to call me a fool, so be it. You don't matter in my life. The reason that refinding posts on Euro boards is so hard is that I was with people in Europe that spoke many languages. They found the posts in their native tongues when we were all together and we sent the info to Homebox. They in turn put out the long-winded message about plastics. East Side Impex is comprised of two people and one is in jail right now in Germany. This is common knowledge with many people in the industry in Holland and Germany. They chose to pretend that there is no problem so they wouldn't fold. Dark Room sales in Europe are huge right now and biting into their market share something fierce. I'm not judging their actions I am simply stating that they did indeed lie to the public about what is in their tents and that they have no problem.
This link is in Spanish
http://www.cannabiscafe.net/foros/showthread.php?t=96498&highlight=homebox
This link has a nice description and pics -- in English
http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=111775
I am not going to refind everything that my friends were able to during a work session together. Furthermore, I have no time for this folly. You seem to want to fight about something that is rather clear to many people. As was said by HydroHuts, the different tent's material is being made by one machine in China and the problem is logically and physically world-wide.
Now a large company like Hydrofarm puts its Habitat back onto the market as if nothing was wrong with it last month when they put it on stop sale nationwide.
Forgive me Mr. Bongjangles if I didn't rush to post some links for you, I was travelling for my work. Now that I have posted what you claimed that I couldn't, you stand corrected.
What you need to understand Bongjangles is that people in the US, in England and those who have a decent grasp of English in many foreign countries can all get together here or on a few other sites and discuss a problem in a very thorough manner. Those who do not speak English or more importantly cannot write English so well, are SOL. They have smaller groups on more insignificant sites. The power of the people on this site to collectively figure out a problem and help to make change is enormous. Due to this one reason, a common language, there is more info about the tent problem here than anywhere. People in many foreign countries still haven't put the plant death problem to the tent they own yet! They have no clue and aren't getting any help on the matter! Those smaller sites in those less used languages have people with actual plant death problems caused by their tents. They don't have the power of this very group to which you not only belong but also contribute greatly.
Hi All! Nice Info!! Go to the Hydrofarm website and they have a pdf
