Hempybucket/bucquet test

[hempybucquet]

You're positive that roots didn't enter the perlite layer? That seems rather odd.

Not sure the answer, so to find out i pulled one of the dwarf plants and washed off the soil and perlite from its roots.



That is one sad and pathetic root mass. The perlite layer stank horribly, so perhaps in the smaller pots there is not enough room for aeration. The nutes rotted and the zone is loaded with anaerobic bugs that the roots did not thrive in. One idea anyway.

 

[bounty29]

I wondered if this would happen from the soil being constantly moist. In my experiences with soil, the wet-dry cycle is key in obtaining a healthy root mass. When kept constantly saturated it is what wet dirt is... mud. Too thick for aeration. With coco, no matter how moist it is it still has the consistency and texture of a sponge, which is why it works so well in dripper setups where it is always moist. The original hempy design, with perlite and vermiculite, was extremely airy. So I think this shows the limit for the hempy design is somewhere between soil and coco, in terms of how aerated a medium you need. Where exactly is the line? Only more experiments will tell.

In order to grow healthy plants, you need to grow healthy roots. If the roots aren't happy, the plant won't be happy. I've often seen rough estimates of "You can get 1 oz per gallon of soil" or something like that, I don't remember because I never put much faith in it. It's not how big the container is, it's how big the roots inside the container are. If you can fit a rootball that would normally go in a 1 gallon container in a 20oz container and keep it happy, why wouldn't you get the same yields?

Maybe it's just because I'm using coco and it has changed my view, but I want my plants to be rootbound. That means they've taken full advantage of the container they were given. If they can be kept at a consistent moisture, like the hempy design provides, why would there be any problem with being rootbound? As long as there isn't an accumulation of salts in the medium there shouldn't be a problem.

Since I've been having so much success with pure coco hempy buckets, I've really been thinking about putting together a somewhat heavily amended coco organic mix. Something like 70/30 coco/ewc with added guanos and misc additives. If I can make it similar enough to coco, I'm thinking that you could do a hempy bucket grow, with possibly as little as a single feeding throughout the plants life. I wasn't sure if this idea would work, but your plant there is exactly what will happen if the mixture is too dense.

I appreciate you doing this, and not being afraid to show the failure of a test system. This adds to the knowledge base, and helps as much as, if not more, than a successful test would have.

 

[hempybucquet]

I wondered if this would happen from the soil being constantly moist. In my experiences with soil, the wet-dry cycle is key in obtaining a healthy root mass.

I think you may have nailed it. In the micro pots the soil was always moist, and the plants did not flourish. Outside, the top of the soil is dry, and the water does not wick up through the coco barrier much at all.

I will try to let the two remaining pots dry out completely before watering and see if they perk up. (But I bet its too late far any meaningful change.)

It would be easy for me to go with coir, but I want to keep the nutes ghetto so I can get the ingredients from hardware stores or wall mart. Need to read more about the differences needed for coir growing I guess.

 

[bounty29]

I think you may have nailed it. In the micro pots the soil was always moist, and the plants did not flourish. Outside, the top of the soil is dry, and the water does not wick up through the coco barrier much at all.

I will try to let the two remaining pots dry out completely before watering and see if they perk up. (But I bet its too late far any meaningful change.)

It would be easy for me to go with coir, but I want to keep the nutes ghetto so I can get the ingredients from hardware stores or wall mart. Need to read more about the differences needed for coir growing I guess.

I've often wondered how a basic nute plan could be formed to be used with coco. I can't say enough about how much I like the coco bricks, you can fit TONS of coco in a discreet paper bag when it's in brick form. I hated carrying bags of soil into my apartment, I even feel sketchy when I have small bags of perlite or vermiculite. I've got nothing to do tonight, maybe I'll see what I can think of.

If you've seen my passive coco system thread (link in sig) it's basically a hempy bucket that maintains a constant water level. I wasn't sure if that would impede root growth but it doesn't seem to be slowing anything down.

 

[BigBlack81]

Bounty, could you run a hempy with just coir all the way up instead of soil and just use coco nutes in passive, as we've been talking about in other threads?

If so, to me this is STILL the best system because I've used coir before in psilocybin work and I know that it's fabulous as a medium all the way around. Balanced drainage, good retention and very consistent reacting no matter what you throw at it. If you can do a coco hempy with this style, I'm so down with doing it for my grows as it IS also much easier to get coir bricks home than soil. Getting the nutes is a challenge but a worthwhile one to not have to deal with the soil issue.

One thing though: I've not used soil much but why not amend the soil mix with hydroton balls to allow spaces and air pockets in the soil? It might make the root mass a little more tangly when trimming but to me, if more drainage is what we need, let's augment the soil with things that WILL drain well or use a passive system that will let the plants take as they need without fear of over watering.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Great test.
I am doing something very similar, although it may not appear so at first look.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=95338&page=3&pp=15

I recommend looking into the Smart Valve. It will take care of your res level just like you want it to by letting the nute solution deplete before auto refilling the tray to a 1" level. It works, and works well. ($20)

My first attempt at a swc like this I have 7 pots with differing mixtures of coco and perlite. (100% coco to 10% coco)
So far I had trouble right off with my main res being on the outside of the temp control area and was too warm. When the res would recharge, it was with solution that had already started to stagnate and grow nasties. Keeping the water at the correct temp is going to be key to keeping roots healthy no matter what. Now that I have addressed that issue, and now keep all the solution at 65-68degF, there are no more nasties to be found. Roots are all nice and healthy in all mixtures.


I have read many, many threads here and other places discussing these so called "hempy buckets"....and I have to ask a question here...
I am in no way in for an argument, or a fight with words of any kind...
But I have to say this..I have been around the block a few times, and although I am not a real old guy, I remember the day JFK was shot, if that tells you anything.
I am certain that I have known about this style of growing since at least the early to mid 70's. It was even in one of the old mary janes gardens flyers.
This was NOT thought up by anyone here, unless of course they published their idea earlier than 1975.
And like I said, I do NOT want to fight...but Mr DHempy, that is NOT your original idea. And I don't care what medium is used to distinguish it from others. And the guy who first presented it to the MJ community, probably learned it from a tomato grower in the first place. This method is old hat, and is before our time folks. Nobody here can claim credit for it, no way, no how.
Unless of course maybe Sam steps up to take credit for the original sketches of such a method.

So, IMO, why you want to talk about the reasons you get pissed off is beyond me. Why do you get mad about something that isn't your idea to begin with?

 

[KingDub]

Hey bounty i really like that style. I was thinking of some kinda soil grow like that to maybe still get that good soil taste and at the same time be 1/2 DWC yanno. I think i saw a pic of that in the Mary Jane grow bible... Might just have to try that out side by side with straight soil and DWC since im running some of both. Once i have enough post i cant wait to start my own thread. I'm from the Reeferman Seeds forums witch recently were taken down and hope to make this place my new home. i was Dubsta at RMS.

 

[Dalaihempy]

Great test.
I am doing something very similar, although it may not appear so at first look.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=95338&page=3&pp=15

I recommend looking into the Smart Valve. It will take care of your res level just like you want it to by letting the nute solution deplete before auto refilling the tray to a 1" level. It works, and works well. ($20)

My first attempt at a swc like this I have 7 pots with differing mixtures of coco and perlite. (100% coco to 10% coco)
So far I had trouble right off with my main res being on the outside of the temp control area and was too warm. When the res would recharge, it was with solution that had already started to stagnate and grow nasties. Keeping the water at the correct temp is going to be key to keeping roots healthy no matter what. Now that I have addressed that issue, and now keep all the solution at 65-68degF, there are no more nasties to be found. Roots are all nice and healthy in all mixtures.


I have read many, many threads here and other places discussing these so called "hempy buckets"....and I have to ask a question here...
I am in no way in for an argument, or a fight with words of any kind...
But I have to say this..I have been around the block a few times, and although I am not a real old guy, I remember the day JFK was shot, if that tells you anything.
I am certain that I have known about this style of growing since at least the early to mid 70's. It was even in one of the old mary janes gardens flyers.
This was NOT thought up by anyone here, unless of course they published their idea earlier than 1975.
And like I said, I do NOT want to fight...but Mr DHempy, that is NOT your original idea. And I don't care what medium is used to distinguish it from others. And the guy who first presented it to the MJ community, probably learned it from a tomato grower in the first place. This method is old hat, and is before our time folks. Nobody here can claim credit for it, no way, no how.
Unless of course maybe Sam steps up to take credit for the original sketches of such a method.

So, IMO, why you want to talk about the reasons you get pissed off is beyond me. Why do you get mad about something that isn't your idea to begin with?

Your calling me a lier hoosierdaddy yet you have nothing to back your claim with but wards the trubble with these boards are to many have the need for self importence i dont all i did was shear a method of growing with any that wanted to use it and i never named the method the hempy bucket others did and i get shit for thanks yep i expect no less from some in this community.

You can get sam in or who ever you like to try and prove your claim facts are these .....the method i use till this day i came up with and i experemented with diffrent size buckets tubs and internal rez sizes.

I first posted my idear in 2002 in cw and all laft at the idear sed it would couse root rot and so on the larfing stoped when i posted pics of my plants and people then started to use my method and my basic formula these people were not kids cw had some of the best growers from all over the world.

I was also laft at by people in the hydro industry told it would not work told it would couse root rot and the rest and yes they were wrong.

I know what your claiming is bull shit why well you see hoosierdaddy i got my idear from a hydro kit i got in the erly 80s from a guy who has run a hydro company since 1969 and was established in July 1969 as a hydroponic research and development company.

In 1972 it started offering hydroponic nutrients and technical hydroponic advice to the hobbyist and started working with the few hydroponic commercial growers that were just starting to become established here.

The guy has majors in Agriculture, Biology, Chemistry, and Physics and has published five books on hydroponics.

The aquponic kit as it was called at the time was a tub that was basicly 6 inch tall around 2 1/2 fet long and 1 ft wide it had a drain hole 1 cm from the bottom.

I made diffrent types of buckets tubs and tryed diffrent internal rez hights over time experemented and once i got the basics worked out and started to achive very good resolts i went to this guy and told him about my idear.

Now heres a guy thats had a hydro company since 1969 that did hydroponic research and development telling me it wont work and i told him it did and that i got the idear from his aquaponic kit.

So like i sed put up or shut up becouse im so fucken tierd of being called a lier and in short that is what your doing you types think im some kid seeking glory well your wrong.

I have been growing for 30 years rember watching the moon landing and moon walks and much more to it dont make me any better than the younger growers in here or does it you amigo rember that.

I also had a friend send me a pic from an erly hydro book from the states basicly a pasive hydro method what it was in short was a pot siting in a saucer with perlite/ vermic / styrofoam as a medium big diffrence to a bucket with an internal rez.

 

[Yeti1]

Im growing what I hope to be a mother plant (waiting for enough nodes to clone and check) in a mid tower PC case. Would these growing mediums be good for a bonsai mother plant? Nice grow sir

 

[hempybucquet]

Im growing what I hope to be a mother plant (waiting for enough nodes to clone and check) in a mid tower PC case. Would these growing mediums be good for a bonsai mother plant? Nice grow sir

I don't see any reason why not. For a mother plant you might want to use a 1ltr bottle. I find they produce more cuttings and are easier to take care of if you give them a bit more space to grow in.

 

[Yeti1]

I don't see any reason why not. For a mother plant you might want to use a 1ltr bottle. I find they produce more cuttings and are easier to take care of if you give them a bit more space to grow in.

Have you kept any plants in the bucquets long enough that you had to change the perlite? Im only worried with a mother that there might be some rot issues after so long.

 

[hempybucquet]

Have you kept any plants in the bucquets long enough that you had to change the perlite? Im only worried with a mother that there might be some rot issues after so long.

No, I haven't ever changed the perlite. I have grown in theses outdoors and the plants lived in the pots Spring to Fall. I have not had any root rotting in any of the pots.

 

[mushuthewhale]

I've recently started a small micro-grow, and I decided to use a hempy-style design, with soil in pop-bottles as well. The bottom of the bottles are filled with perlite, then a small seperation layer of coco, and finally the soil the plants grow in. My reason for trying this, was to see if I could push the watering frequency towards more seldom watering, allowing for less care (lazy bastard, i know) and less panic when on holidays, taking weekend trips etc.
Regarding the roots: I have experienced that the roots grow into the perlite layer without any complications, though I think it is imperative to veg. the plants for a littel longer, than in the usual clone-to-SOG setup. So far, my plants are doing really fine, and I can leave the plants for around 3 days in between waterings, even though the container are only about 0.5 -0,75 Litres each.

 

[Cannabisaurus]

From my understanding the coco is used simply as a separation layer between the soil and the perlite, correct? Would it be possible to use another medium instead of coco as a separator, like vermiculite?

I currently have a few plants growing using the Doc's method and this looks like an interesting twist that I would like to experiment with.

 

[hempybucquet]

Regarding the roots: I have experienced that the roots grow into the perlite layer without any complications, though I think it is imperative to veg. the plants for a littel longer, than in the usual clone-to-SOG setup. So far, my plants are doing really fine, and I can leave the plants for around 3 days in between waterings, even though the container are only about 0.5 -0,75 Litres each.

That was my conclusion as well. Got to let the veg cycle go a bit longer before going into 12/12.

3 days is great, makes it a lot less work.

 

[hempybucquet]

From my understanding the coco is used simply as a separation layer between the soil and the perlite, correct? Would it be possible to use another medium instead of coco as a separator, like vermiculite?

Correct, it is just a filter to help keep the organic particles up in the soil where they belong. Old rock wool, polyester batting, anything that will wick through should be fine.

 

[hempybucquet]

Here is the vegged clone ready to be chopped at 9 weeks. Not a huge cola, but pretty much what I would expect from this strain (HGS Superbud) when flowered at 2". It would be a great choice for PC grows as you can really keep the height down if you flower it early.

​

 

[killa12345]

I like the log.....Heres a pic of my 32 oz Gatorade/pedalite/cd cover hempy bucket SOG using 6 cfls in a cardbox....hope u enjoy the pics......the gatorade bottles are cut down to about 24 oz.

Pic at 35 days bloom....63 day strain!

 

[hempybucquet]

Those look fantastic Killa. Nice job!

Here is the dried and trimmed yield from that one Hempy clone. Loads of crystals and very tasty, but light and airy bud. Not at all like the bud I get from my soil pots. Will try another round of bucquets next chance I get, but this time will use 1 liter bottles. Think the clones need a little more veg and a little more room.

 

[hempybucquet]

Soil Nug. Grown with same nutes in same cab.