CAUTION when using dutchmaster zone and penatrator.

[canadiancracker]

i recently bought dirty clones that had powerdy mildew and i found on these forums a dutchmaster mix that supposedly cured pm. sysmatically it enters the plant with the help of penatrator and alters the ph with the zone to make the leaves inhospitalble for the pm. anyways. i made my mix and i have dipped my clones twice, they seemed a little slower and less vigourous than healthy plants but they are also pm free for now, anyways this thread is not about wheter it works.

this thread is too warn people that the mixes purposed the to raise the ph on the leaves so the pm dont grow. well it turns out that the ph of the dip solution is also caustic. after dipping and washing my plants i started with tiny little bubbles on my knuckles that dipped the plants. this morning i woke up with bubbles next to my eye, on my cheek and the side of my neck. i think that the alkaline solution cause exzema, (which means to boil over) i went to the pharmacy and bought a corazone cream and it seems to be helping but i was told up too 2 weeks before its gone.

i wanted to warn people that gloves and glasses should be worn during treatements with these products and to wash throughly afterwards. even when you rinse the plants 2 days after each dip to wear gloves.

i do no want anyone to end up loosing time out having fun in public because your face or whatever is covered in bubbles. its gonna be a boring friday night..

anyways be safe people and happy gardening..
CC

 

[canadiancracker]

up

up

be careful even rinsing... i do not have sensitive skin and this shit fucked me up

 

[blueberryfarmer]

I recently used the DM Zone/Penetrator dunk for some plants and didn't notice any adverse skin reaction, but i was wearing gloves and rinsed my skin and stuff. There was some skin contact with the solution, but i dont remember any problems because of it.

I'm not trying to discredit your report, as what you said is totally believable to me, just wanted to throw it out there that for whatever reason it didn't seem to be a problem for me (yet). I've only done 2 dunks so far though.

 

[ureapwhatusow]

using more than dutchmasters recommended amount (the amount recommended by in these forums elsewhere) does that to the plants in high enough concentration

 

[canadiancracker]

i mixed the zone at 10ml per liter and 60ml per liter of penatrator. the same recipe i found on here not stronger or weaker.

my first dipping i dipped each plant 3 times at 2 hour intervals. swirling and shaking plants even scubbing the pm off using my fingers n shit. no gloves.
i dipped like 150plants.
i also cut 150 clones the same afternoon, my jiffies expanding mix is 2ml/l zone, 30ml/l penatrator, rhizatonic 4ml/l, and no damp at 20ml/l. i squeeze the excess water out of the jiffies and sealing the stem and medium, also causing my hands to be exposed the the dutchmaster stuff.

3 days later dip everything all over again, dip drip, dip shake, dip drip. and since then which was the 30th of october.

i noticed 2 tiny bubble blisters on one of my knuckles and didnt think about it too much.

i washed my plants with RO water to clean off any residues. and using my left hand i moved the plants around and sprayed with the right. i had turned off fans and vents to not have mist floating around towards bulbs. it was hot and i was a little sweaty. with my open pores and fulla chemicals on my skin, not on gloves, i had alot of absorbtion and its pretty nasty shit. i work with paint and thinners and those chemicals dont even bother my skin.

unless its the strain whiteberry that im allergic too which i doubt its just a chemically induced eczema.

just dont want anyone missing out on friday or saturday nights cause they are fulla blisters and bumps...

i didnt think anyone wanted to see pics so look it up if you want.. or just wear gloves and then wash after. be careful stay safe. CC

 

[blueberryfarmer]

Well actually the rate posted was 10ml Zone per GALLON of water, and 60mL Penetrator per LITRE (quart) of water. And the guy that posted that formula later refined it to 2-5mL Zone per gallon. This is his whole post (I copied it into my notes because i was having PM problems - not since using this though):

dudes and dudettes- i live in a climate where its 80% humidity and 40-60F -perfect pm conditions and i've eraticated it completely. You are all barking up the wrong tree. That hydro guy that told you that you were crazy is crazy. I got this info from the dutch master people themselves through my local hydro store.

I've reduced the rates on the zone to 2-5ml/gallon. Still use the penetrater at full strength. THe penetrater is the KEY to the combo cause it makes it SYSTEMIC. THat white shit is the spores or babies. You aren't trying to kill that. You need to kill the HYPHAE that penetrate the cells and suck the life out of the plant. Best time to spray or dip is when you DON'T see white spores. Break the life cycly just like with fleas for cats/dogs.

Zone Penetrator is the ONLY thing i've seen work. And it works great. Messing around with ph water and humidity you might as well be spinning your wheels meanwhile you are losing your medicine.

Google up pm life cycle and see what i'm talking about with the hyphae.
And yes the copper sulfate helps in it- but the other ingredients are key cataylsts and the penetrater makes it systemic....

Its the only way i've found folks.
And yes unrooted cuttings are fine at 1-2ml/gallon zone and fulll strength penetrater. It also kills stem rot for unroooted cuts. The cuts love it. I reguluary spray mist my cuts as a preventitive and esp. if i EVER take in a new cut from someone else i quaraanteene it and zone the fuck out of it.
Most of all clubs in cali have pm infected cuts. You won't see it without a super strong microscope or until the spores fruit (the white powder). And this is a shame casue sick people can die from smoking pm infested meds.

M

Anyway, i guess the reason you're getting burned is you used that shit waay to strong.. Good luck next time. How are those clones? How's your hand by now?

 

[canadiancracker]

lol the rates i took for the mix where from Chimera, its possible that it was mixed to concentrated, which caused my burns but either way, my hand is slowly getting bette i was told about 2 weeks before i see a big difference. i keep putting the cream every 12 hours. my neck and face have been getting alot better but that was like secondary contact.

my plants stunted for 2-3 days of slow growing after each dip but have now taken off and are vigourously growing and they seem to be clean, i havent found any pm, eggs, or bugs., even with burning my hands n shit if the pm doesnt come back it will have been worth it. ill be switching into flower soon i just have to build my last row of shelfs and then ill be flipping the switch.

 

[djam]

can you post any pics of the skin burns ?

 

[opt1c]

chloramine or whatever it is called is the active ingredient in zone; almost like chlorine; sorta like a chemical chlorine burn; not nice stuff... wasn't chlorine gas used in world war I? always wear gloves when dunking anything or playing with any pesticide; organic or not; just a good habit to be in.

but i've used the 1-2ml zone/60ml penetrator as a foliar spray on my clones no prob... they really like it too; perk right up if drooping... haven't had pm for a minute though

 

[grobart]

Why the fuck would you want to continue growing/smoking a natural plant that has been treated with a product that will burn your face off?

I just bought some penetrator and reverse. The receipt is taped to the cap and they're going back immediately.

 

[opt1c]

i suggest u never drink tap water then grobart

 

[StrictlyGateway]

i did the 10ml per GALLON zone, with NO adverse effects to myself...the PM, however, was wiped out. i'm a firm believer in zone/penetrator. i def. think you are suffering from too much of a good thing. try 10ml/gal next time.

 

[whadeezlrg]

has anyone used the cocktail in flower?

 

[opt1c]

yeah; thats where it originally came from whadeezlrg... powdery mildew rx for flowering plants... u can spray with good results if plants are too big to dunk... seems to work better than most other types of controls that can be used during flowering; from what i've read it doesn't burn off the pistils or anything... you'll need to keep applying every week for a few weeks though... the best time to spray for pm is after you don't see any pm... that means you're close to winning

 

[lilmiss]

The penetrator (now called Reverse) is only a wetting agent, and not the culprit here. Zone contains Chloramine which I just found out contains Chlorine and Ammonia. (The ammonia neutralizes the Chlorine so its not toxic to humans, animals or plants. That is what may have caused the rash imo.

 

[opt1c]

actually penetrator is now called saturator; reverse is a different product entirely

zone also contains a bit of sulfur as well

 

[Tr33]

sounds like an allergic reaction.

Zone/Pen fries your plants.
Do not use it.

I used to be a pro for this BS mix, now I say stay away unless you want to lose you grow.

Botaniguard in Flower and Eagle20 in Veg.

Fuck that Zone/Pen plant frying crap.
use it and watch your plants go crisp in a week.

 

[HydroJen]

Why the fuck would you want to continue growing/smoking a natural plant that has been treated with a product that will burn your face off?

I just bought some penetrator and reverse. The receipt is taped to the cap and they're going back immediately.

As a grower, you will be working with lots of dangerous and caustic chemicals. If you don't understand this, then you should return all your chemicals, while your at it

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

eagle 20 for powdery mildew

 

[bilbohicks]

I'd like to (politely) clear up some misinformation in the posts above.

canadiancracker started this thread with a warning re: DM Zone and Penetrator, in short s/he got eczema from (likely) over-use of DM Zone, which is quite possible.

opt1c followed up by stating that Zone's active ingredient is chloramine, which I believe is incorrect.

grobart then added "Why the fuck would you want to continue growing/smoking a natural plant that has been treated with a product that will burn your face off?" which is just silly.

and finally lilmiss stated "The penetrator (now called Reverse) is only a wetting agent, and not the culprit here. Zone contains Chloramine which I just found out contains Chlorine and Ammonia.", which is wrong.

I'm going to respectfully point out some errors in the above.

DM Zone contains Copper Sulfate, a known skin irritant, that causes eczema, boils and rash. This is in all likely hood what caused canadiancracker's concern. Zone contains about 5g per liter of Copper Sulfate (at least based on the label, color and strength) and is as far as I can tell the ONLY active ingredient (the other listed ingredient seems to be just filler or possibly included to assist in PH buffering), and since it works exactly the same as adding dilute copper sulfate to the res (or your ponds or swimming pool) there is no reason to think that it also contains any chloramine. Chloramine is what a lot of city water companies are using to treat water as a replacement for Chlorine because it is more stable than Chlorine - this causes some issues for people on city water who are not using RO filtered water, as in high doses it can stunt, injure or kill your ladies.

grobark - again, with utmost respect - a huge amount of what you give your plants, when broken down to the key elements will burn you or cause other (hopefully temporary) health issues, you can even get some serious nitrogen burns playing around with compost, so I would argue that the fear-mongering re: burning your face off, with, what is an organic substance is misplaced at best. Copper Sulfate is one of the better ways to deal with root issues - though your pocketbook is better off if you just mix it yourself (wearing gloves and goggles and all that), with DM Zone you are paying $25 for about 5 grams worth, you can pick up a 5 lb bag for less of cool-looking copper sulfate, and make over 2000 liters of a DM Zone equivalent. That's enough to do somewhere around 40-80,000 res treatments.

lilmiss - as Opt1c pointed out already - DM's Penetrator is _not_ now called Reverse, Penetrator is now called Saturator - both little more than a (IMHO overpriced) surfactant, possibly derived from Yucca extract. Reverse is still Reverse and is most likely NAA (Naphthalene Acetic Acid) - a well known and researched Plant Growth Regulator and can be used by itself to ensure female expression.

Hope this helps, please let me know if I got any of this wrong.
BHicks