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Running coco in ebb & flow using lucas formula ?

MarquisBlack

MarquisBlack

St. Elsewhere
Veteran
Here's what I'm trying this round-

Coco ebb and flow with Lucas formula (1:2 ratio Micro:Bloom). I'm starting at 5.1 this round, but I'll probably start a tad higher next time. Probably 5.2. I have a 50 gallon reservoir per 3x4 table under 1000w, so I am going to slowly work the pH up over the course of the first 3 weeks, by adding a bit of diluted ph up when necessary, peaking at 6.1 toward the end of week 4. At this point I'm probably going to dump the reservoirs and cut the micro. I should be feeding at a lower ppm at this point, but it's yet to be seen. The last month might be tricky. Swinging the ph back down might involve adding acid to a reservoir with ph up in it already, which will cause salt precipitation in the solution. So what I might do is upon filling the reservoir, after dropping micro, simply put the ph around 5.8 and let it drift how it will for the last few weeks, within reason of course. I'm not entirely sure that swinging back down as far as you started is completely necessary. Can anyone elaborate on that?
 
1

10k

burnt out og'er
Veteran
Marquis black,
I am going to move your post over to the coco forum as it's own thread and title it "running coco in ebb & flow with lucas formula ?" as coco is really an animal all to itself, and running it in e&f may present some special problems associated with it's special characteristics. I suggest maybe running canna coco nutes instead.

I'd like the hydro forum thread to stay specific to running it in recirculating hydroponics like it was designed. yea yea I know you're recirculating too, but in coco medium which tends to swing things alot pH wise. Hence the move to it's own thread here in the coco forum.

But anyway, I'll leave a redirect in the previous thread for the others to follow and hopefully you will see some help from our resident coco experts.

Bonecarver_OG comes to mind for coco guidance :joint:
 
Last edited:
Lazyman

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
Hi, I am new to ICMag (former OG member) but I just set up a new grow with 4X4 tables using coco chips/croutons with no amendments in 2 gallon smartpots, but I'm using PuraVida organics not lucas. I did have to add 5ml/gallon of Epsom salts to correct a Magnesium deficiency, and dose it pretty regularly with Hygrozyme, mycorrhizae and Inoculaid (and more Cal/mag boosters.) Coco really seems to eat it up! My PH usually climbs pretty fast in the res, I have to add acid every couple days to knock it down from 6.1 to 5.3, then let it climb again. I do like giving the babies a range of PH instead of locking on one, makes different nutes available easier. Hope that helps!
 
D

dongle69

There should be no need to add ph up.
Normally, the ph will rise naturally on its own.
The coco and plants that you use will dictate the ideal ph range.
If you decide to use ph up, by the next time you add ph down, it won't have a negative reaction as the ph up in the reservoir will have dissipated.
Problems arise from people using ph up/down together in the same mixing session.
Woops, too much ph up, add a little ph down, woops, too much, go up again, and so on.
If and when ph gets hard to manage, it is time for a reservoir change.
Larger reservoirs are more stable as well.
I have had great results and I only change my reservoirs after harvest.
I have been running ebb and flow coco for the last 6 months and I haven't had to do anything special as far as ph goes (or as far as anything goes really).
If you have time, take a look at the 6000 watt room link in my sig...
 
B

bonecarver_OG

MarquisBlack said:
Here's what I'm trying this round-

Coco ebb and flow with Lucas formula (1:2 ratio Micro:Bloom). I'm starting at 5.1 this round, but I'll probably start a tad higher next time. Probably 5.2. I have a 50 gallon reservoir per 3x4 table under 1000w, so I am going to slowly work the pH up over the course of the first 3 weeks, by adding a bit of diluted ph up when necessary, peaking at 6.1 toward the end of week 4. At this point I'm probably going to dump the reservoirs and cut the micro. I should be feeding at a lower ppm at this point, but it's yet to be seen. The last month might be tricky. Swinging the ph back down might involve adding acid to a reservoir with ph up in it already, which will cause salt precipitation in the solution. So what I might do is upon filling the reservoir, after dropping micro, simply put the ph around 5.8 and let it drift how it will for the last few weeks, within reason of course. I'm not entirely sure that swinging back down as far as you started is completely necessary. Can anyone elaborate on that?
Click to expand...


i bet trying that you will have an interesting experiment, and maybe by time you will find a ballance of additives and extras that might solve all the problems it really creates in the same moment

OR

you can use coco only nutes. CANNA coco nutes gives allround good results and are designed by the leading coco cultivation company in the world. also the fact these guys been fiddling about with these things for 30 years.. makes me hand over ALL my trust to them.. since i done so i have NOT have had any problems what so ever.

in coco the NATURAL ph - its stabilized within the medium, at around 6.0
having this in mind, growing in coco a lot of ph trouble will be solved in advance.

thats all i can say. coco nutes for coco growing. :D

coco cultivation is still hydro, but its got its own quirks, and buffers some nutrients more than others.


Lazyman said:
Hi, I am new to ICMag (former OG member) but I just set up a new grow with 4X4 tables using coco chips/croutons with no amendments in 2 gallon smartpots, but I'm using PuraVida organics not lucas. I did have to add 5ml/gallon of Epsom salts to correct a Magnesium deficiency, and dose it pretty regularly with Hygrozyme, mycorrhizae and Inoculaid (and more Cal/mag boosters.) Coco really seems to eat it up! My PH usually climbs pretty fast in the res, I have to add acid every couple days to knock it down from 6.1 to 5.3, then let it climb again. I do like giving the babies a range of PH instead of locking on one, makes different nutes available easier. Hope that helps!
Click to expand...

this method above could work more or less ok, but its defiently not necesary to drop PH that low for growing in coco . you notice your PH is going up to 6.1 - thats for a reason....

adding huge amounts of ph down will affect nutrient balance..

coco buffers Cal. normal tapwater with EC 0.4 most likelly has enough Cal in it to be enough for cannabis. using hardwater nutes like canna - there is no extra Cal added to the coco, the tap water is enough. using CANNA nutes there is no need for cal mag boosters.
 
MarquisBlack

MarquisBlack

St. Elsewhere
Veteran
dongle69 said:
There should be no need to add ph up.
Normally, the ph will rise naturally on its own.
The coco and plants that you use will dictate the ideal ph range.
If you decide to use ph up, by the next time you add ph down, it won't have a negative reaction as the ph up in the reservoir will have dissipated.
Problems arise from people using ph up/down together in the same mixing session.
Woops, too much ph up, add a little ph down, woops, too much, go up again, and so on.
If and when ph gets hard to manage, it is time for a reservoir change.
Larger reservoirs are more stable as well.
I have had great results and I only change my reservoirs after harvest.
I have been running ebb and flow coco for the last 6 months and I haven't had to do anything special as far as ph goes (or as far as anything goes really).
If you have time, take a look at the 6000 watt room link in my sig...
Click to expand...

Well, my problem seems to be that I started a tad low (on purpose, wanted to give it a try) and my plants are showing a bit of a mag def (2 weeks into 12/12). I started the res at 5.1 (admittedly low) and as of last night it's at 5.5. Honestly next time I think I'll start around 5.4-5.5 so I won't have to worry about the ph up. Where do you start, Dongle?

I'm hoping that magnesium will become more available (as it should) by the time it hits 5.7 or so. If not, I might add a bit of epsom.

I'm using R/O water with 1:2 Lucas. I apologize for this thread, really. This was initially an offhanded question in a Lucas thread that got relocated here as it's own thread.. :abduct:
 
B

bonecarver_OG

looks like dongle 69's nute regime works quite fine also. couldnt find info in his thread about ph etc but looks all good in there :D
 
MarquisBlack

MarquisBlack

St. Elsewhere
Veteran
Sorry, didn't see your post Bonecarver, you must have submitted while I was typing. But yea, apparently regular (non-cocofied) Lucas will work with ebb and flow and coco. I'm hesitant myself, but Dongle's the shit and I take what she says seriously. I'm gonna play it by ear and see what happens, and if nothing else, I'll default to Canna nutes, which I'm completely prepared to do mid-cycle if possible. K+ guys!
 
D

dongle69

MarquisBlack said:
Where do you start, Dongle?
Click to expand...

My bags of coco say ph 6.3 on them.
Recently I started my reservoirs at ph 5.5, so at the first watering the coco raises the ph of my water a little bit, to around 5.8.
After the initial couple of floods, things stabilize and I just add water and nutrients.
Ph seems to adjust itself to be 5.8-6.2 without me having to add ph adjusters, as long as I keep feeding full strength.
Initially I would add ph down when the water got to 6.1/6.2 but now I just add nutrients and it hasn't creeped up over that amount.
I use good quality tap water.
 
D

dongle69

I should also add that the GH Flora series has no humic/fulvic acid in it like the Nova series.
If you add some, it may help nutrient availability and uptake in veg and in early flower.
 
W

Wait...What?

Active member
Veteran
anyone who says 'you don't need pH up' is using tap water so take what they post with a grain of salt.

on edit: the poster in question apparently has substantial credibility, but the results might not be repeatable with your own local water.

on edit again: coco is not hydro. coco is not hydro. coco is not hydro. starting at 5.2 is totally normal for a hydro res change, but you'll find the cation exchange with coco doesn't like the pH that low. I'd say start at 5.8 and let it go up to 6.4 or so. I find the best nutrient uptake between 6 and 6.4 with coco, but my experience with it is admittedly limited.
 
B

bonecarver_OG

three quotes from dongle + coments :D

Ph seems to adjust itself to be 5.8-6.2 without me having to add ph adjusters, as long as I keep feeding full strength.
Click to expand...

that rigth there is the BEST ph range for coco :D

I use good quality tap water
Click to expand...

the key to success :D its got the CAL necesary...

worse tap water - with high ec - can be washed down with adding ro or distilled water.


humic/fulvic acid
Click to expand...

id almsot say its necesities when growing in coco :D nutes without it should definetly get it added in some way. it also lowers PH.

fulvic acid helps cell growth and root development as far as i know, and the humic acid helps horizontal root growth and increases the substrates water retencion capacity.

CANNA COCO nutes have it allready in them...
 
J

Jamerican63

Member
bonecarver_OG said:
i bet trying that you will have an interesting experiment, and maybe by time you will find a ballance of additives and extras that might solve all the problems it really creates in the same moment

OR

you can use coco only nutes. CANNA coco nutes gives allround good results and are designed by the leading coco cultivation company in the world. also the fact these guys been fiddling about with these things for 30 years.. makes me hand over ALL my trust to them.. since i done so i have NOT have had any problems what so ever.

in coco the NATURAL ph - its stabilized within the medium, at around 6.0
having this in mind, growing in coco a lot of ph trouble will be solved in advance.

thats all i can say. coco nutes for coco growing. :D

coco cultivation is still hydro, but its got its own quirks, and buffers some nutrients more than others.




this method above could work more or less ok, but its defiently not necesary to drop PH that low for growing in coco . you notice your PH is going up to 6.1 - thats for a reason....

adding huge amounts of ph down will affect nutrient balance..

coco buffers Cal. normal tapwater with EC 0.4 most likelly has enough Cal in it to be enough for cannabis. using hardwater nutes like canna - there is no extra Cal added to the coco, the tap water is enough. using CANNA nutes there is no need for cal mag boosters.
Click to expand...


How would PBP fair in COCO I would like to use it have not $$ to waste... any suggestions?
 
C

Citizen024

Member
PBP is great, you may need to boost it with CalMag type product as well. It serves as a good backbone you can add other products for boosters/additives.

A proven worker that PBP. If you want a locked in path- then Canna or House and Garden.

I run a recirc coco ebb and flow veg. I use 1:1.5 and it seems to work. 400ppm Micro: 150ppm Bloom. I up it 450-200 as they get going more. Been add EJ Catalyst, and plan on adding teas too. I sometimes add more Micro if I want more N.

I have 3- 2x3.5's tray on one 50 gallon res, I can fill it to 70gal if I want too. I barely have to adjust when i mix it, a little up usually. If I have used EJ Catalyst it will be lower, and I can bubble it higher as well as raise it. Whatever I mix in it stays put wherever I put it. I shoot for higher 5's, low 6's.

I keep it topped off w/RO and after 3 days it will have dropped ppms. I do allow the water level to drop some as well as nutrients are used up. At 3-4 days I add in 70-100ppm CalMag and bring it back to its starting place ppm wise. Change at day 7-9. Haven't noticed deficientcies. But I am not blooming.
 
B

bender420

dongle69 said:
There should be no need to add ph up.
Normally, the ph will rise naturally on its own.
The coco and plants that you use will dictate the ideal ph range.
If you decide to use ph up, by the next time you add ph down, it won't have a negative reaction as the ph up in the reservoir will have dissipated.
Problems arise from people using ph up/down together in the same mixing session.
Woops, too much ph up, add a little ph down, woops, too much, go up again, and so on.
If and when ph gets hard to manage, it is time for a reservoir change.
Larger reservoirs are more stable as well.
I have had great results and I only change my reservoirs after harvest.
I have been running ebb and flow coco for the last 6 months and I haven't had to do anything special as far as ph goes (or as far as anything goes really).
If you have time, take a look at the 6000 watt room link in my sig...
Click to expand...


quick question bro, i just posted this in another thread i am just gonna copy and paste I think u might be able to help.

I just transplanted to 10 in sq pots, and they are in the ebb n flow tray, however i can only flood maximum to 3 inches. I notice that in these big pots the top layer of coco stays dry, as i dip my finger in it get more and more moist gradually. Since this is my first time I am not sure how often to flood or how wet the coco needs to be or how good is its wicking capability.
 
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