What's new
  • Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

New Experimental Organic Hydro Technique!

Greetings one and all!

Horticultural Science student and general indoor gardening enthusiast here, and I come bearing the fruits of my experimental research into oxygen-assisted medium-based grows. It is a unique compromise between basic dutch pot style hydroponics and organic soil based mediums. My serious professional interest in horticulture did incidentally begin with cannabis way back in early high school, when so many of us discovered the sacred herb. I was a pretty huge computer nerd at the time and so easily discovered the then-thriving community of Overgrow.com. I quickly became an amateur gardener, doing mostly outdoor guerrilla-grows at first. Guided by the massive knowledge-base that was overgrow I quickly became proficient enough to begin experimenting.

A couple of years pass, I get out of my parents' house and begin toying with hydroponics. After a few iterations and one horrible salt-lock incident I had gotten pretty good, favoring an Irish & Webby style aeroponic tube setup. The results where fantastic but the whole process was woefully labor-intensive and expensive to boot. Also, I had discovered Christian Kung Fu's salt element table and had come to simply add ratios of the pure elements needed (nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, magnesium, so on and so fourth) in a stabalized salt form in the correct ratio by mass per litre of liquid added fresh to my resivoir. This got me a highly controlled environment with high-performance repeatable results, but it was difficult to experiment with different breeds of cannabis or whole different plants. On top of that, I felt that I was missing out on the benefits of organics and all associated micro-life. So, I began to work backwards.

The last bit of time I got with the Overgrow community before it was wiped away forever was spent figuring out what exactly caused the benefits of hydroponics over medium-based growing. Aside from a more precision control of the nutrients that the plant recieves (not so much a benefit in itself really, but to do this successfully you have to know what the fuck you are doing, which is directly related to growing awesome bud) all hydroponic rigs provide oxygen to the root zone in one way or another. High oxygen levels at the roots allows for more rapid nutrient uptake, etc, which leads to higher growth rates. I would eventually single this trait out as the only significant advantage that hydroponics has over medium growing at all. Then, midway through 2006 the Canadian Mounted Police Force, spurred on by the American CIA, siezed overgrow.com's physical assets and arrested most of its propriators for growing cannabis. As the cannabis knowlege giant died I was just discovering advanced micro-life. I experimented with organic mediums, finding out just how important Mycorrhizae fungus was to plant health and vigor. After a few iterations I would come across my most recent success:

Sadly, my personal and proffesional situation has made it a requirement for me to continue my research on plants which are legal to cultivate to maturity in the United States. I have worked primarily with tomato plants as they grow quite similarly to cannabis, reacting the same way to supercropping and ScrOG techniques which I had grown fond of over the years. Happily, the now-legal nature of my work means that I can publish information more freely. I have documented my newest organic hydro/medium hybrid technique in painstaking detail here:

http://my.gardenguides.com/members/.../27/Our_Innovative_Indoor_Tomato_Garden_Diary

This is a link to my first entry, click on the blog tab to see the whole thing, most recently updated about two weeks ago. I have had tremendous success growing tomatoes with this technique, although later on we faced problems with blossom-end-rot (BER) which is strictly a tomato issue related to insufficient calcium levels in the fruit. This is usually caused by low calcium or low magnisium (facilitates calcium uptake) in the soil. I had neither such problem and have heard from the tomato gurus on the GardenWeb forums that extreemly high growth rates can cause BER as calcium cannot be moved through the plant tissues quickly enough. My own expirience points towards this as in the past week they have been getting over this problem. I believe that my bubble-tub technique has yeilded growth rates similar to those possible with hydroponics at a fraction of the cost and complexity. By using forced-oxygen injection I have achived very rapid nutrient uptake, but all with the safetey net of a very active Mychorrizae fungus and pro-biotic cingle celled organisms. My primarily organic nutrient regime makes my micro-life thrive, and the huge oxygen levels ensures that only aerobacteria thrive, with pesky anaerobactirial pathogens being killed off by the default conditions. PH buffering and drout protection is build right into the soil. However, due to the valve system in the tubs and the arragement of the water bath the system is still fully capable of a starve-feed-and-flush hydroponic nutrient regime that has such dramatic positive effects on cannabis potency during flower. Even better, because each plant has its own container, there is no common nutrient bath. You may grow many different breeds of plants, with much longer or shorter flowering periods than eachother even, without having to compriamise on starve timing or nutrient content. In short, I believe my technique is the ultimate grow method.

I have only had the chance to prove it out on a pair of tomato plants, and my current situation does not afford me the opportunity to safely try it on cannabis. In short; I am making a plea to the Cannagraphic community. I will share my expirience and full instruction, answering any and all questions about the technique, if someone would care to try it out on cannabis and be so kind as to post the results. I promise low matinence yet high-performance yields. Don't take my word for it, have a browse through that blog, my records are meticulous. See the results for yourself, I even had a control tomato plant that was sprouted at the same time as the others but planted in conventional dirt. The rate at which the control plant is outgrown by the bubble-tub plants beggars belief. I have outlined the process in detail on the blog but not given a super-complete construction guide. ANYONE interested in giving this technique a try can count on me for full tech support and advice on how to knock the system together. It is VERY EASY. All matirials can be aquired from Lowe's, ACE hardware and any local garden center. No special or exotic ingredients required, just a basic medium, some lava rocks and organic nutes. The specifics are outlined in the above posted link. Have a look, please respond if you are interested.

-DM
 
Drunk, what you're doing is extremely close to my own method. The biggest difference is that you run an air stone in your container whereas I don't. It would be an interesting experiment to see how that affects output. I do have an air pump set up from my DWC days, too. Well, I'll get into that later.

Putting that aside, here is how I set things up. Basically, it its a hempy bucket with special attention paid to keepng a thriving microbial zone. Instead of the traditional bucket I use a tub/basin that comes from Lowes. (I think I might see it in your photos, actually.) I place the 1/2" drain about 1.5" from the bottom. Water (poured in from the top) fills the tub until it reaches the drain level. The medium sits on top and passively wicks water upwards.

Speaking of that medium, I pour in a layer of perlite until the drain is covered a little bit. On top of that I create my important organic layer. This is 75% coco fiber and 25% earthworm castings. A bit of mycorhizzae and various bacterias is added. This mix is applied about 1" thick. It's followed by the main grow mix which is a combo of 75% perlite/25% vermiculite.

The last bit that matters is the nutrients. I do a base of FloraNova Bloom plus additives. Most of that is geared towards feeding the microherd. I blend Mother Earth Tea (compost tea), FloraNectar (sweetener), Diamond Nector (humic acid), and Floralicious+ (fulvic acid). Btw, I just picked up some Scorpion Juice from Advanced Nutrients. I'm curious to see what it does.

So, with all that said, this system *rocks*. Output is impressive with the sativa dom hybrid that I grow. What I really appreciate, though, is the clean/fragrant and "organic tasty" buds.

True, the plant gets a good measure salt-based feed, but it's consistently supplemented by the premium nutrients that only a "living" grow medium can provide. Btw, it's interesting to gauge the organic/micro layer's metabolism by fluctuations in the pH. Feed more organic nutes and the pH raises as the colony eats. Let it die off and the runoff shows more acid.
 

Advanced

Member
Scorpion Juice is most effective as a foliar spray, apply it to the leaves every two weeks during flowering up to week five right before your lights go out. You will see an increase in resin production.
 

Advanced

Member
I think there is more of a benefit using it during flowering but that said, there are benefits to using it during veg. It helps boost the immune system response in the plant and can help protect against tobacco mosaic virus. Some of the Dutch seed breeders have used it on mother plants to protect them against that. You can read more about Scorpion Juice on the Advancedapedia on the advancednutrients site.
 
Drunk, what you're doing is extremely close to my own method. The biggest difference is that you run an air stone in your container whereas I don't. It would be an interesting experiment to see how that affects output. I do have an air pump set up from my DWC days, too. Well, I'll get into that later.

Putting that aside, here is how I set things up. Basically, it its a hempy bucket with special attention paid to keepng a thriving microbial zone. Instead of the traditional bucket I use a tub/basin that comes from Lowes. (I think I might see it in your photos, actually.) I place the 1/2" drain about 1.5" from the bottom. Water (poured in from the top) fills the tub until it reaches the drain level. The medium sits on top and passively wicks water upwards.

Speaking of that medium, I pour in a layer of perlite until the drain is covered a little bit. On top of that I create my important organic layer. This is 75% coco fiber and 25% earthworm castings. A bit of mycorhizzae and various bacterias is added. This mix is applied about 1" thick. It's followed by the main grow mix which is a combo of 75% perlite/25% vermiculite.

The last bit that matters is the nutrients. I do a base of FloraNova Bloom plus additives. Most of that is geared towards feeding the microherd. I blend Mother Earth Tea (compost tea), FloraNectar (sweetener), Diamond Nector (humic acid), and Floralicious+ (fulvic acid). Btw, I just picked up some Scorpion Juice from Advanced Nutrients. I'm curious to see what it does.

So, with all that said, this system *rocks*. Output is impressive with the sativa dom hybrid that I grow. What I really appreciate, though, is the clean/fragrant and "organic tasty" buds.

True, the plant gets a good measure salt-based feed, but it's consistently supplemented by the premium nutrients that only a "living" grow medium can provide. Btw, it's interesting to gauge the organic/micro layer's metabolism by fluctuations in the pH. Feed more organic nutes and the pH raises as the colony eats. Let it die off and the runoff shows more acid.


Dude! You HAVE to add a couple of 12 inch bubble wands to the very bottom of those tubs next time around. You will be AMAZED. The oxygen levels drive the microbes ballistic and speed the rate of active osmosis to a dizzying height. You may want to raise your drain though, a 1.5 inch "bath" isn't really deep enough. (its perfect for what you are using it for, too deep of a bath without oxygen injection could lead to root rot of doom!) The bubble bath technique likes to have at least 3 inches of depth down in the water zone. Also, if you try using bubblers I think you should skip the pearlite/vermiculite layer and run it entirely with the coco moss/worm castings stuff. Cut down the coco moss to about 50% by adding in a little vermiculite and pearlite. I would love to see some other people employing the bubble bath technique, I really think it could catch on! Tanks for the support, good luck, and happy gardening!

-DM
 
Dude! You HAVE to add a couple of 12 inch bubble wands to the very bottom of those tubs next time around. You will be AMAZED. The oxygen levels drive the microbes ballistic and speed the rate of active osmosis to a dizzying height.

I can certainly give it a whirl. At harvest I pull my plants out and there's a always a dense matte of healthy roots on top of the water. However, there's very little to none below that. So, the addition of a bubbler makes total sense. If the roots drop, that'll prove the concept completely. I'd hope to see some extra foliage and bud development, too.

You may want to raise your drain though, a 1.5 inch "bath" isn't really deep enough.

Hmm... why do you figure that it needs to be any deeper?

Also, if you try using bubblers I think you should skip the pearlite/vermiculite layer and run it entirely with the coco moss/worm castings stuff.

Once again, I ask why you'd advise this move? I do know that coco can be used in a hempy bucket (since I've used it already). However, it's far more expensive than perlite/vermiculite. I believe that the mineral mix holds more oxygen, too. That water doesn't change its consistency at all (as it does with coco) is another bonus. What advantage do you believe coco provides?

Cut down the coco moss to about 50% by adding in a little vermiculite and pearlite.

Mmm... now aren't we going in the other direction? Anywho, I'll add some bubblers when I build a new pan this Sunday. Let's see what happens!
 
I can certainly give it a whirl. At harvest I pull my plants out and there's a always a dense matte of healthy roots on top of the water. However, there's very little to none below that.

This is exactly right. Your lack of a bubbler means that the roots cannot live in the water layer. With a bubbler, they will invade the bath rapidly, just like a DWC hydro rig!

Hmm... why do you figure that it needs to be any deeper?

Because the bath layer is actually where the majority of your root mass will end up! I use red lava rock at the bottom of my bath while you use pearlite. I would recommend using the lava rock instead. It makes for a much, much larger available surface area for the roots to cram themselves into. This is why you want a deeper bath, it makes more room for roots. My bubble bath tubs might not be very different from what you do, but the root mass it develops is boarderline out of control. You need lots of room down there for the roots to expand into, otherwise it will start to strangle itself.

Once again, I ask why you'd advise this move? I do know that coco can be used in a hempy bucket (since I've used it already). However, it's far more expensive than perlite/vermiculite.

Exactly the same reason I reccomend lava rock and a deeper bath. Coco moss has a much, much lower density than pearlite and vermiculite, leaving more room for roots.

I believe that the mineral mix holds more oxygen, too.

It doesn't, period, not even close. Ask any of the coir growers on this forum. Now, with the bubble bath approach oxygen 'holding' capacity is no longer an issue so it doesnt really matter either way. The O2 in the medium is being constantly replaced at a very rapid rate. As I said, the coco is much less dense than pearlite/vermiculite. This is what we want.

Mmm... now aren't we going in the other direction?

Yes, this is because I reccomended a fundemental change in the way you use layers. You described a three-layered system. A pearlite 'bath' at the bottom, a 1 inch organic layer in the middle and then a very thick inert vermiculite/pearlite layer on top. I am telling you to ditch the top layer and run only 2. A deeper, lava-rock-filled bath at the bottom and a fully organic medium on top consisting of 50% coco, 25% compost/worm castings and 25% pearlite/vermiculite. This is the optimum mix for an organic bubble bath tub. Your vermiculite/pearlite mixture will work, but you will expirience bubbling and frothing at the surface of the medium. The mix you currently use is just too dense. Instead of the oxygen diffusing evenly throughout the medium (like mine does) the air is going to carve out channels or 'pipes' for it to bubble to the surface. This is an uneven distrobution of O2 and is undesirable. Trust me, I experimented with mediums for months to get it right, the very first version did not feature any coco at all! I then went to a 75% coco mix which was too much. 50/50 is perfect.

Despite all of this though, I think that even if you ignored all of my reccomendations you will still see a hugely apparant difference by simply adding bubblers. I'm just trying to help you get it right the first time; you will notice all of the problems I described first-hand if you do not take my advice and you will learn the hard way. There's certainly nothing wrong with this, I've never been one to take advice easily and usually end up learning the hard way myself! I'm just trying to pass the results of my experimentation on to you so that you don't have to go through the irritation of tweaking your current setup to best suit the bubblers. (and you WILL want to tweak it for the bubblers once you see what a difference they make!) Can't wait to see your results, I have total confidence that you will be pleased. The difference between sticking with what you have as opposed to going with my reccomended tweaks is the difference between being completely amazing and being fucking blown away. You're gonna be one happy camper either way. As always, good luck and happy gardening!

-DM
 
With a bubbler, they will invade the bath rapidly, just like a DWC hydro rig!

I'm on the same page with ya. Adding the bubblers will effectively increase the volume of the root growth zone.

You need lots of room down there for the roots to expand into, otherwise it will start to strangle itself.

Well... if that was true then wouldn't my plants be even more strangled right now? They don't show any evidence of stress... I was concerned that my very small root area would be a problem, but it has proven not to be so.

I'm just trying to pass the results of my experimentation on to you so that you don't have to go through the irritation of tweaking your current setup to best suit the bubblers.

Sure thing. Tomorrow I'm going to give this a whirl. How many bubbler wands would you add for a space that's about 24" x 20"? Or, how many inches/cm of wands would you use? I've got the type that folks use in fish tanks.

The difference between sticking with what you have as opposed to going with my reccomended tweaks is the difference between being completely amazing and being fucking blown away.
-DM

Ha! That sounds good to me. :) By the way, I hand water right now. On top of that, I drain each tub into individual basins and test the run off every morning for pH and salt concentration. This is a time-intensive (but rewarding/worthwhile) pain in the arse. Have you devised an automated drip set up for your tubs? If so, how do you account for different life cycle stages (e.g. as found in a perpetual grow). Have you got anything devised for the drain water analysis?

This is gonna get damned interesting... :smoker:
 
Well... if that was true then wouldn't my plants be even more strangled right now? They don't show any evidence of stress... I was concerned that my very small root area would be a problem, but it has proven not to be so.

Oh heavens no. When I call vermiculite and pearlite 'too dense' it is a little funny. Compared to soil mixes that successful dankyness has been coming out of for generations now are many times denser than your upper medium. Root growth will taper off given its available space. The plant is fine, but this is what I call 'strangling'. Keep in mind that I'm probably the most fanatical supercropper on this forum, or indeed the interwebs. My plants always wind up with thick bark over a gnarled 1 inch+ main stem (where it meets the ground, they tapered off to 3/4-5/8 pretty quickly). Thats with a long veg and being run in ScrOG under small [150w] HIDs and all other sorts of weirdness. Added upper plant mass means the plant wants to add an equivalent ratio of root mass. This was my aforementioned foray into bubble baths under coco. I had used a mix VERY similar to your organic layer; right around 70/30 coco/organic.

I mentioned that I found this mix undesirable, this is why:

By the way, I hand water right now. On top of that, I drain each tub into individual basins and test the run off every morning for pH and salt concentration.

I've hand-watered every iteration of my bubble bath tubs. The 70/30 mix was more hydro-ey. It went dry quicker and its PH fluctuated MUCH more than a 50/50 mix. 50/50 handled a lot more like soil. I had mixed it up, doped it with quite high doses of Mychorrhizal spores, and let it sit in the bubble tubs without planting or running the lights. Within a week a light white fuzz began to creep over the surface of the medium. By the time I planted (tomatoes mind you :wallbash:), the thick and gamey-smelling organic medium had been converted into a mildly wet-smelling, fuzzy, moist-but-not-wet, hyper-oxygenated, self-wicking mass of goodness. The micro-life had CLEARLY taken off, their numbers multiplied exponentially over the weeks, driven on by the oxygenation. The whole arrangement ended up looking a lot like this:

MagicCocoCoirBubbler.jpg

ZeGoggles

(one thing note on here, at the very top I use a 1 inch layer of pearlite to lock in residual moisture and protect the surface from the HID lights. This lets roots grow all the way to the very top of the organic medium.)

As you can see there are two drains. An always open overflow (with perhaps-unnecessary U-bend) and then a dump valve. This allows me to hand-water with nutrient teas specific for each individual plant (this is why I don't go drip). Long-flowering and short-flowering plants can live in harmony as you feed and starve them based on their own needs. I run a flush-starve-and feed cycle not unlike many high-po hydro enthusiasts. Up through veg, strech, sexing and the first half of flower I just hand water letting the over-flow valve do its work. Then in the second half of flower I will crack open the dump valve and run quite a bit (5 gallons, prolly more) of water through the medium. This is the flush, it rinses off any residual salts and other build-up from fertilizing. Close the dump valve, fill the reservoir with clean water (no nutes yet) and wait. With hydro it is similar. After the flush the roots are left to sit in nutrient-free water. They get sad VERY rapidly, the grower must respond by draining the nutrint-less water and then nailing the plants with strong flowering nutes within around 48 hours.

It takes a little longer with organic bubble tubs. I rinse the medium heavily and then let them sit in the clean water until they've 'drank' all of the moisture from the reservoir (takes about a week for me). Over the course of that week signs of very mild nutrient deficiency tend to show and I let them go dry for a little while so that they get a bit sad like with hydro starvation. Then, nail them with happy flowering nutes. Wash, rinse, repeat. This works out amazingly for harvest. You put them into a final flush and starve cycle, but you never snap them out of it. The Medium goes dry and the mycylem network clings to a final percentage of moisture, slowly feeding a life-line to the plants as they linger on for a week or more. The stems wither up, all fan leaves and even large lower bud leaves shrink up and drop off, the chlorophyll starts to break down and the buds enter the beginning stages of drying/curing. This takes weeks out of drying time and reduces the amount of time it takes to get the buds to be happy (not sweat) in the curing jars while eliminating starches and other not-THC that would otherwise never come out until you smoked the bud.

As you can see, I wring everything I can out of feeding and watering cycles. The bubble-bath tubs allow for this kind of aggressiveness while maintaining super-active micro life. I swear that the mycylium network of the beneficial fungus actually helps the flush-starve-feed regime. The 50/50 mix is incredibly low maintenance, PH of the runoff never wavered further than between 6.6 and 6.9 without any adjustment on my part. I was so paranoid about these results that I got a PH soil testing kit and took samples of my medium from various locations. I got identical results. This was actually a bit irritating because for tomatoes you want closer to a Ph of 5.5, whereas 6.8 is bang-on for cannabis. I had used a mix of Mychorrhizae spores from a specialty grow store (worm's way) that was tuned to buff the Ph for cannabis. It worked. I added Epsom salts and then in desperation some garden sulfur. I burned the plants from too much S before I could get the Ph to budge. :mad:

I couldn't be too pissed though because I knew that this meant super-low Ph maintenance for growing cannabis even if I fuck it up a bit.

As for bubblers, I like to use the cheap 12 inch triangular aquarium bubblers hooked up to a high-output (500-1500 gallon rated, this will run several tubs though) air pump. I would use at least 2 of such elements in your space for a nice, even air distribution.

The maintenance of a bubble bath tub sounds extremely similar to what you do now. The presence of a dump valve like I use is not 100% necessary. You could do normal veg/flower and forget about a starve cycle. That said, I think the flush-feed-starve regime is directly related to increased potency (plant mass vs THC). The bubble bath tubs are very flexible, they could be low-maintenance cruisers that behave 90% like soil; or you can turn them into hydro-like super tweaking machines. You can take it as far as you want. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM
 

foo_bird

Member
how does the air from the air stone work with ventilation
in a sealed small cab it would be a non-passive intake right
how would you figure it into your ventilation plan?
the idea of more air to the roots is great
roots need O2 air coming threw the root mass will have
some O2 used so more CO2 in air coming out root mass
just not sure how to figure my ventilation the little airpumps
are 3cu.ft.min.and up and I'm lost lol
 
how does the air from the air stone work with ventilation
in a sealed small cab it would be a non-passive intake right
how would you figure it into your ventilation plan?
the idea of more air to the roots is great
roots need O2 air coming threw the root mass will have
some O2 used so more CO2 in air coming out root mass
just not sure how to figure my ventilation the little airpumps
are 3cu.ft.min.and up and I'm lost lol

There are a few issues with bubble tubs and ventilation. Bubble bath tubs will effectively up the humidity of the cab (this is drastically reduced by laying a 1 inch thick or more layer of pure pearlite on top of the medium) so you have to watch out on re-circulated rigs. I would personally try to put the air pumps outside of the grow-space if possible. You want them drawing in the coolest air you can get. Placing the air pump(s) in a crawl-space or basement and running the tube up into the cab would be ideal. Drawing in from the grow-space is surely easier though. This is not a deal-breaker as far as I know. I'm sure in a small cab it wouldn't hurt to set the pumps in the cab itself and have them inject the ambient air into the medium (as long as cab temps are reasonable). Air pumps can make a lot of pressure but even the high output ones aren't making much CFM, or actual air flow. A very high-output air pump will move fewer CFMs than a very small output fan. A small grow would do fine with an air pump rated for 100-250 gallon aquariums. A pump this small will have negligible effect on your air flow and ventilation, no matter where you put it. I hope this helps. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM
 

foo_bird

Member
thanks for the response DM the pump will be out of the cab
I,m just having trouble figuring my ventilation with an
active intake I'll be using a 55gal. open top drum
with a 16" deep tub upside down on top to house exhaust
fan and reflector I'm just tring to work out the best way
to set up my intakes air pumped thought the roots sounds
good to me much thanks
 
Well, I was a week behind schedule. However, yesterday I put together a new 20x26x7" tub with 2x 12" + 1x 6" air stones included. There's even a digital water temperature gauge stuck onto the rim to convince me that I'm a mad scientist or something. (Temps range from 70 - 80degF.) I used hydroton on the bottom with the Drunk's coco/worm poo/perlite/vermiculite recipe. The only difference is is that the top 1.5" is covered in my typical 3:1 perlite/vermiculite. I had to do it simply because I ran out of coco! I don't suppose it'll matter much, though, because the root balls are already buried below this level.

I'll let y'all know when I see anything interesting! The pH is shooting upwards now that the air is bubbling through. So, perhaps that'll be my first area of discovery.
 
Excellent to hear that you are under way, I am glad you took heed of my advice. That top 1.5 inch mostly pearlite layer you added was actually a very good idea. I top my tubs with at least 1 inch of pure pearlite as it reduces moisture loss from the bubblers and keeps the HID lamps from drying out the top couple inches of the light airy medium.

I'll let y'all know when I see anything interesting! The pH is shooting upwards now that the air is bubbling through. So, perhaps that'll be my first area of discovery.

Uh oh! Sounds like you didn't give your microbes and Mychorrhizae enough time to colonize the medium. Mixing high oxygen levels with volatile organic nutrients can do very wacky things to your soil chemistry! I have never used my bubble bath tubs without very strong accompanying micro-life that was allowed to work on the medium for a couple of weeks before the plants are placed in. The mycylium network of the beneficial fungus stabilizes the medium and gets PH fluctuations under control. If you have started a bubble bath grow without giving the microbes adequate time to take over the medium you may see some very unpredictable results! I cannot comment on what might happen to your medium or the plants placed in it when in this state as it is outside the realm of my own experience. I dearly hope that your micro-life is able to stabilize 'on-the-fly' and that the resulting grow behaves in a predictable manner. Good luck with your grow, I am still convinced that the results will please you so long as your soil chemistry stays under control. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM
 
Sorry, I'll clarify that my tub's drain off pH is stable at about 5.8 (+/-2). What I didn't mention was that I have another water stash that I keep "perculating" with an air stone. The water is 50/50 tap (typically 125ppm) and what comes out of my dehumidifier. I mix up all my organic nutes (including extra bacteria & mycorhizzae fungus), set to 5.8 pH, and then brew for a couple of days. It is during this process the pH continuously rises. Anybody that's done DWC will see this occur. It's totally normal. It stabilizes in the grow tub and the plants dig it. :)

Btw, my clones were flipped to 12/12 just five days ago. They're definitely growing fast and I'm super cropping a little bit to keep them from getting lanky on me. Water temps fluctuate between 75 and 83degF. I'd prefer to drop it down a touch. However, that'll happen on its own as I lower the tub away from the lights as the plants grow. (They're raised to be even with taller plants beside them.) Air temps peak at about 85degF. We'll drop that down 5deg once I get my window AC rigged up.
 
Ahh, ok, that makes much more sense! I have read a lot on this forum about organic 'teas' and everyone seems to agree that adding a bubbler to them and giving them an incubation period has a seriously positive effect on micro-life. It baffles me that a community could know enough about beneficial microbes to know that you should add a bubbler to organic teas and yet not make the mental leap to adding a bubbler straight to an organic grow! It has always seemed like basic logic to me, but the technique continues to appear to people as 'exotic'.

Your tub runoff sounds perfect, and I think you will be amazed at how stable it remains with the bubbler. I tried everything I could do to lower my PH (tomatoes love around 5.5) from a perfect-for-cannabis rating of 6.5 to no avail. The microbes will constantly tweak the soil chemistry to maintain balance and the added oxygen allows them to do this much faster due to their ramped-up metabolism.

I'm very happy to hear that you've taken a stab at supercropping. The technique has many levels and you have only just now entered the first one. It can be used in its very basic form as you are right now to control plant height and general stretch without having to trim the plants (an unnecessary source of stress I've always thought). It works wonders for stretchy clones and lanky sativas as they enter flower. Supercropping goes much deeper than this however. At the highest level a gardener supercrops from day one, beginning when the plants are but tiny sprouts with only their very first set of serrated leaves. Diligent supercropping from the very beginning makes a dramatic difference; it actually makes fundamental changes to the plant's chemistry. Drastically increased auxin production and a HUGE stem cross-section are direct results of early supercropping. Plants develop multiple leaf nodes per INCH of main stem section, rapidly compounding into massive bushy growth without the need for trimming. It is like a totally different plant, the vascular system of completely supercropped cannabis barely resembles that of its un-cropped brethren. I have seen supercropped cannabis yeild in excess of 1/4 pound per plant in under 24 inches of total headroom. I think you will see the benefits of the technique even in your very basic application.

I challenge you to choose a single plant this next time around and be very aggressive with supercropping it. Start when it has its first set of serrated leaves and don't stop until the stem is so thick and hard that you literally cannot compress it with your fingers. I think the yield of this plant compared to others that are genetically and environmentally identical would greatly surprise you. Give it a try, you will be pleased with the results. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM
 

Tarbosh

Member
I plan on running some heirlooms tomatoes in a biobucket setup this summer..... however, need to determine a way to be able to cool the rez cheaply..... since I will be running this outside I definitely need to make sure temps dont get too high or Ima have issues!

also.... anyone think ill have issues with running 5 gals and root space for a whole season?

I figure its best to run a determinate strain.... simply because it will get out of control if I dont.....


so not sure if theres much diff between the two systems....... maybe in terms of fungi development?
 
I have seen the biobucket and it is very cool. However, its just a modified DWC system, nothing very special. It still uses an inert medium and a separate recirculating nutrient reservoir just like normal hydro. It contains no organic medium and would be incapable of supporting strong micro-life. On top of that, it is far more complex and less compact than my organic bubble bath tubs. So there is actually a very large difference between the biobucket and my technique. I will warn you, I had a little trouble growing good tomatoes in my bubble bath tubs. Tomatoes love a pH of 5.5, but because my super-bad microbial population automatically buffed the pH I could never get it to move from 6.5 Now, I used a special microbe mix from a hydro shop that was meant specifically to condition the soil for cannabis (6.5 is PERFECT for ganja). Something less specialized might be easier for you. Once again, I'm pretty sure my bubble bath tubs are unique to the internets. I have yet to find or be shown anything like them. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM
 
Top