What is the Technical Term for 'Puffy Leaf Syndrome' from excess calcium in flower?

[f-e]

Is the brain an extremity? The technical term is fluffy, not puffy.

Oh, how very dare you. Changing the threads direction to make yourself fluffy.

 

[Sampas92]

Is anything similar to this? Along with a bit of clawing without a the dark green?

Peace

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

What do you mean by puffy leaves? Is that like when you get those thick/heavy leaves, like succulent plants, rather than the light/paper thin kind of leaf? e.g. more water retention in the leaf than it can use?

If that's what you're speaking of, it's called Oedema, I've not come across it's causation being high calcium levels though, but I've also not researched too much into it.

Oedema is the buildup of fluid in animal tissue, and unfortunately is unrelated to this phenomena in plants. (Or is it? lol)

The end result is similar, where the cells are extended in size/thickness. You ultimately have more flower/leaf, yet the same number of trichomes to cover it so the potency is lower. Let me see if I can find some photos to link to on here. It is not boron deficiency, sorry. I'm stuck on low bandwidth and working 10hr days, so I've been extremely limited in 'online' time. lol

 

[Tom Hill]

A healthy leaf?

This is correct haha

 

[Tom Hill]

It always kinda made me mad placing potassium above calcium as a macro nutrient. I believe calcium wants to occupy about 82% exchange sites in a soil and potassium 3%. It's like saying humans are carbon based when we are 98% water it makes my eye twitch

 

[SuperBadGrower]

Gotta get that shine shine for Real dawg

 

[SuperBadGrower]

Shiniest shiner I got, (pic removed)

is this, and above, what is being discussed? edit: Apparently not, I have no idea what to say without a picture of what is being talked about

 

[Cerathule]

Hey all,

I am hoping the term is something well known and I simply missed it. When using excess calcium in flower, I get plants with thicker/puffier leaves. While this looks awesome, the end result is excess plant material under the same number of trichomes. Since terpenes and cannabinoids are not formed within the leaves and flowers, I have zero desire to increase their size by just cell size.

Is there a technical/scientific term for this 'enlarged plant cells' condition?

Thanks so much!

Hi Doug,

don't think there is and these terms are all news to me. But Ca is used by the roots as an exchange cation which means high Ca levels enable a high N absorption which is one major factor to enlarge growing cells and contribute to leaf greeness and harsh smoke.
One rule of thumb most farmers know is when fertilizing N in the form of urea to also add the same in Ca.

Ca is very important in bloom as plants have physiological problems to deliver it into the non-photosynthetic floral parts. So even with available Ca in the substrate its levels may be low leading to typical known problems like end blossom rot and others.

I also don't think that Ca makes a cell larger because the Ca is actually separated apoplastically & symplastically right at the root with cytosolic Ca levels being several orders of magnitude lower. It also isn't phloem-mobile so too high amounts may crystallize at the end of the xylemic pathways in leaves.
In this it behaves kind of similar to boron, both which are important to feed the plant a steady supply of it.

That said, I don't believe in the global calcium-conspiracy

 

[Tom Hill]

Hi Cerathule. You do not believe Ca strengthens cellular walls and brings halting of polygalacturonase enzyme in cannabis to stopping splitting of ripening tomato please do tell these conspiracies. Just feed worm poo and everything will be fine lol?

 

[Cerathule]

You do not believe Ca strengthens cellular walls

oh yes that's exactly what it does but that is not what I would associate with

enlarged plant cells' condition?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Nah... it's the puffy leaf edge look, not the 'almost nitrogen poisoning dark green.' I dislike excess nitrogen in flower. Great in veg, awful end quality during flower.

Check Tom Hill's media page... (Tom, would you mind linking the image here please?) partway down the first page is an outdoor flower shot with puffy leaves...

 

[Cerathule]

please do tell these conspiracies. Just feed worm poo and everything will be fine lol?

Lol well from what I could gather so far they say it's the Ca responsible for Boron & Potassium deficiencies due to ion antagonism.
But I've yet to see a B-def plant in veg that would be fairly easy to spot

 

[SuperBadGrower]

https://www.icmag.com/media/20180626-083104.17664680/

This? nice photo

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Yep, that's the one. Ty so much.

Beautiful, but non-optimal for my taste. In that photo, the support structure holding the trichomes is built much thicker and more solid than I care to smoke. I grow for trichomes, and work to minimize the production of excess plant material. Hash? Yeah, all day with puffy leaf plants, just not my ideal choice to smoke flowers of for optimal flavor and exhale aroma.

Edit: especially the last few hits in the doobie or bowl. I prefer they have as little 'burnt support structure' flavor as possible, and even the smallest amounts tend to accumulate rapidly with each toke. The exhale of the last toke in the bowl should taste gooood.

 

[Tom Hill]

Calcium wants to occupy about 82% of sites in the soil. Cannabis like tomato is a calcium hog. Take you pick, protect the resin with calcium or chemical spray. If you think there are other options you are flat out wrong but lay it on me.

 

[Tom Hill]

Give me a turgid healthy plant any day, I will get what I want off of it.

 

[Cerathule]

Silicic acid has also been found to be deposited in trichomes. But the word is that cannabis won't uptake much of it, but I'm not sure. I've yet to see a detailed study with it. It's undoubtedly beneficial but how high should one go? Esp. considering there are so many different products, using different sources....

 

[exploziv]

There are some studies online for other plants that suggest around 100 mg a liter is beneficial, while more does not necesary help.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

My thanks to those who made educated and insightful contributions to the thread.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

I find sweet spot for silica is 20-50ppm silica ions, in the feed water constantly till flushing time...20ppm is enough to get the benefit..