Fucked up shit, didn't see this thread before. Has anybody pics which are a good representation of this poisoning?


Wow, thanks for providing the info to the community. If the company wishes to behave like that, I don't think any of us have a problem taking our business elsewhere.


Active member
Just in case, remove plants from containers and quickly look for root aphids scurrying. You have to be quick cuz they'll retreat into the medium right away. Good luck. -granger


i know this is an old thread, but i suspect i had or am having this problem in my new place. i don't think it is my tubing, it's the same i always use, i removed the pond liner i was using, but that has a stamp of pp50 or something on is, no no.3. have been using some shoe trays as clone trays recently, was wondering if they might be causing it. as i never had to deal with this before, it has to be something in the room. i just hope to good it isn't the linoleum floor that installed? how would i deal with that? carpet? check my testing thread if anyone has pertinent input on this subject for me.

peace out


Most of your plastics are doing this..you just aren't seeing damage.

Use HDPE, LDPE, or something similarly classed. I void my garden hose before every water and avoid otherwise using any plastic that has any odor- which includes some sandwich bags that I am pretty sure shouldn't be on the market.

So I have been experiencing a mysterious yellowing for about 10 months. Every thing that went into one of my 11 different rooms (some that had been going 5+ years) started to yellow and eventually die. My first instinct was my ph I checked my pens, they were not very far off but I calibrated and bought new probes anyways. That did nothing. Then we suspected the nutes, maybe we got a bad batch. I had bought 6 gallon jugs and filled all my 1 gal’s up off the same batch. Call the company run the batch numbers and they say they are 18 months old, So we went out bought new nutes and nothing changed. So after that I figured my favorite brand had fallen off and we decided to try another brand. We go buy $1000 worth of canna. And we thought possibly it could be something with our clones so we picked up a batch of clones from an LA club. Same thing new nutes new genetics same yellowing. So now I am scratching my head start making some calls visit a bunch of other rooms, and at least 20 in my immediate area have this same mystery problem. So I do some research find out we are all on the same water supply. I found 4 rooms on another water district doing bitching so I say BINGO, It must be the water. We go out and buy a 275 gallon tote and start buying water from this other district. A real pain in the ass I might add we had to do 2-3 trips a week to meet our demands. Same problem. We start doing testing 1st water test, 2nd tissues sample, I have a horticulturist come and look at things. He suggests an Iron def. We get our tests back everything looks good. We do a tissue sample off a room that is doing good compare our results and everything is fine. Except my plants still look like shit. So I emailed my test results to my original nute company they pass it around the office and let everyone take a look at it. I get a call a couple of days later from them and he asks me if I have ever considered off gassing. What is crazy is the night before I found a thread on the hydro huts and was showing my partner how Identical it looked. So now we go to our rooms and start looking around at what it could possibly be. Like I said some rooms had been going in the same location with nothing changed in about 5 years. There is only 1 new product that we had replaced the ½ tube that connects all the buckets. I started to call around and every room that was having the problem had replaced there tube with the new stuff. The 4 rooms that were doing good were using old hose and was just washing it out. So being lazy saved theses guys who would of thought. I have been talking to the company that made the offending tube for 4 months and they do not wish to resolve this problem even though I have proof that the toxic chemical is in the tube. We have done GC/MS testing, LC/MS, testing and FT IR testing that show conclusively that the chemical Diisobutyl phthalate is in the tube. This is the same chemical that caused the problems with the hydro huts. If you are having a mysterious yellowing and are using NGW tube replace it immediately and please respond to this thread. I am going to be working on a class action against these guys. I have some of the worlds top experts on the matter willing to testify and do any research needed to win this case. The idiots printed there names on the tube it has n-g-w.com printed every foot, so it is easy to identify.

Here is a brief description of what the phthalate does to the plants.

The toxicity caused by a volatile constituent from certain samples of flexible polyvinyl chloride (PVC)
was due to dibutyl or diisobutyl phthalate (DBP or DIBP) plasticisers. It has caused serious financial
losses in the horticultural industry. The two phthalate esters have low volatilities, so any toxicity lasts
for many years. Radish (Raphanus sativus L. cv. Cherry Belle) seedlings, exposed to an air stream
containing 160-180 ng dm~3 of butyl phthalates developed chlorotic leaves within 3-4 d and died
within 12 d. Neither dioctyl nor diisodecyl phthalate (DOP nor DIDP) produced damage in the test
plants. Measurements of photosynthetic and respiratory gas exchange in intact shoots of affected
radishes showed that photosynthesis was severely inhibited whilst respiration was virtually
unaffected. Electron micrographs of sections from young leaves showed disruption of thylakoid
formation and granal stacking. In mature leaves, thylakoids and grana were well formed but
chloroplasts were swollen and the thylakoids were pushed towards the vacuolar side of the
chloroplast. Sensitivity to toxic phthalates varies between species; all members of the Crucifcrae tested
were susceptible, tomato less so, and lettuce and ryegrass were resistant. Toxicity of DIBP, from PVC
glazing strip, caused a reduction in crop value of £20000 per acre per year in commercially grown,
monocrop tomatoes.

The effects of phthalate esters on chlorophyll a2 fluorescence in radish plants (Raphanus sativus L. cv.
Cherry Belle) were examined Fluorescence yield was increased in those plants exposed to an aerial
concentration of 120 ng dm"3 dibutyl phthalate (DBP) at a rate of 3-0 dm3 min"1 for 13 d.
Comparison of fluorescence enhancement ratios and Fr^/F01 suggests that DBP inhibits photosynthesis
in radish plants at a site after QA. Both DBP and diisobutyl phthalate (DIBP) strongly
inhibited uncoupled (PS2 + PS1) electron transport rates in thylakoids isolated from spinach. At a
chlorophyll concentration of 10 /ig cm"3 the concentrations of DBP and DIBP exhibiting 50%
inhibition were 44 mmol m " 3 and 42 mmol m " 3 respectively. Basal electron transport rates were also
inhibited, with 87 mmol m"3 of DBP or DIBP producing 50% inhibition. Measurement of
photosystem 1 activity suggested that the main site of action of these phthalates was localized at a site
near the reducing side of photosystem 2.

ECA #10281

The analysis of the samples has been completed and the results are given below. The sample information is:
______________________________ ____________________ ________________
Customer Identification: PVT Tube
Sample #: 10281a
Date Received: 7-12-10
Test Requested: Identification and Quantification of Phthalate(s)
USP <851> FTIR with quantitative extraction.

Sample Results
PVT Tube
15.95% diisobutylphthalate
FTIR spectrum matches well with diisobutylphthalate library spectra and reference standard.




What's the outcome of this issue? Has anyone taken this to court?

I stopped doing DWC because I've got the blue tubing from sunlight supply for my level tubes.

Fortunately I only grow for myself so I can do coco in an eight gallon bucket without any problems. The buckets are from a home brewing company so they can't have toxic materials in their products.


Can we unsticky this already?? This is 8 years old and honestly probably irrelevant to almost anybody here and even wrong section if it ever was.
Last edited:


not sure why it should be unstickied, it's a problem that can crop up in rare cases. in my case a few years back i sourced the issue to the floor. once i sealed the grow area off and added active intake to stop any air getting sucked in from that room, the issue went away.

basically if it happens to you it's good to have information available.


not sure why it should be unstickied, it's a problem that can crop up in rare cases. in my case a few years back i sourced the issue to the floor. once i sealed the grow area off and added active intake to stop any air getting sucked in from that room, the issue went away.

basically if it happens to you it's good to have information available.

Their's a million problems "that can crop up in rare cases". What exactly does this one have to do with nutrients?



didn't even check the sub it's in. i guess ill move it to a more appropriate sub.

in the end it's the rare problems that will stump ya, any idiot can look up how to get rid of mites, the web is full of this info. it's the rare problems that tend to be hard to solve, so i see no harm having such a thread stickied for those rare cases.



didn't even check the sub it's in. i guess ill move it to a more appropriate sub.

in the end it's the rare problems that will stump ya, any idiot can look up how to get rid of mites, the web is full of this info. it's the rare problems that tend to be hard to solve, so i see no harm having such a thread stickied for those rare cases.

Sounds fair. No one is coming to this section to get rid of mites and for sure not for off gassing hoses.

Edit: Just seen you changed it. Thx bro, you're a good mod.


New member
How do I identify phthalates in products?

There is no easy way to tell if a product has added phthalates.

Phthalates can be identified on labels by a three or four letter acronym that defines their chemical structures. Labels rarely state “contains phthalates”.

There are a multitude of phthalate compounds.

Which phthalate compound is added to a product depends in part on their molecular weight (MW).

Phthalates with a higher molecular weight (HMW) are very slightly soluble in water;
phthalates with a lower molecular weight (LMW) are reasonably soluble in water.

The 8 most widely used phthalate compounds and their metabolites are:
• BBP: butyl benzyl phthalate (LMW) *, **, ***
MBzP: mono benzyl phthalate
• DBP: di-n-butyl phthalate (LMW) *, **, ***
MBP: mono-n-butyl phthalate
MiBP: mono-isobutyl phthalate
Most common phthalate added to nail polish.
• DEHP: di-(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate (HMW) *, **, ***
MEHP: mono-(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate
Most widely-added phthalate to polyvinyl
chloride (PVC) to make products flexible.
• DEP: diethyl phthalate (LMW)
MEP: monoethyl phthalate
Most common phthalate added to personal
care products to enhance fragrance.
• DiDP: di-isodecyl phthalate (HMW) *, **, ***
• DiNP: di-isononyll phthalate (HMW) *, **, ***
Most common phthalate added as a softener
in the manufacture of toys and childcare products, such as bath toys, drinking straws,
and rubber ducks.
• DnHP: di-n- hexyl phthalate *
• DnOP: di-n-octyl phthalate (LMW) **, ***
* Listed in California’s Proposition 65 as a reproductive and developmental toxicant.
** Listed in California’s AB1108 (Ma and Huffman). The bill, if passed, will ban use in the manufacture of any toy or childcare article intended for use by a child under three years of age.
*** European Union banned as a phthalate softener in the manufacture of toys and childcare articles.

Read Labels to avoid phthalates.

The most common products using phthalate compounds are:
PVC Products
Phthalates are frequently added to PVC (vinyl) products to soften and make more flexible. If a plastic product is flexible, it probably contains phthalates unless the label specifically says it does not.
Personal Care Products
Phthalates are often added to personal care products, such as nail polish, perfumes, deodorants, hair gels, shampoos, soaps, hair sprays, and body lotions, to help lubricate other substances in the formula and to carry fragrances.

Phthalates must be listed among the ingredients on product labels, unless they are added as a part of the “fragrance.” Under current law, they can then simply be labeled “fragrance,” even though they may make up 20% or more of the product.

Many companies have voluntarily removed phthalates from their products. A company will usually label its product “phthalate-free.” If unsure, call the company.

If you can’t get information from the manufacturer, look for alternatives.

How can I recognize plastic toys and containers containing phthalates?

All plastics are not the same. One easy way to recognize plastic toys, clothing, bottles, food and beverage storage containers, and/or food wrap that may contain phthalate compounds is to look for the number 3 inside the universal recycling symbol usually molded into the plastic on the bottom of the product.

Avoid products with the number 3 within the arrows and the letters “V” or “PVC” below the arrows.

Choose products with the numbers 1,2, 4 and 5 within the arrows. Many companies use phthalate-free substances such as polypropylene (PP), recycling code 5, to manufacture plastic products.

St. Phatty

Well-known member
How do you say "phthalates" ?

Is this one of those words that discriminates against people who don't have a Lisp ?