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Bogglegum bubble hash, the large chunk is the 120 "sweet spot" micron
RMS
Very true. When I read a lot of the nostalgia posts here, I can only scratch my head. Maybe it was because I was a lot of borders away from the source countries but the early 70s weed that I smoked would be laughed at today - not coveted.
There were batches of killer imports that passed through. Most of the stuff that we coveted was what we made/grew from those killer imports.
I disagree, you will not have the typical Himalayan hash effects using American hybrids, you have to use nepalese/North Indian genetics which, by the way are still alive and as amazing as before. You have to go there, out of the touristic places. Do not underestimate poorer country folks because they don't have access to your facilities. Out of the international trade doesn't mean that it disappeared.
We can disagree. No clue where American hybrids come in. Those old genetics are gone !!!. Easy to get landrace genetics directly from those regions. The war on drugs had a major impact on those old genetic lines. It's only a sales tactic to get people to think its the same quality as it was 50 years ago, it's not lol. If your a native gotta get that tourist $$$. They are all still growing today's gene pool.
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I recently grew some Nepalese seeds that gave me the exact same type of effects as what I smoked in Himachal Pradesh in the 90's, which is an unmistakable type of high, typical of the Himalayan genetics.
Granted, I wasn't there in the 70's but there isn't any indications or stories that it was better than the Charas available today when you go the source, far from the tourists traps.
Do you really want us to believe that people in Nepal stopped growing the plants that they selected, tended and enjoyed for centuries for many uses (the nepalese strains are multi-uses: seeds, fibers and drug) because the hippies stopped coming and the laws changed ? Do you think that all the places in Nepal and even in the Himalayas has just one strain that mysteriously disappeared ?
As for the American hybrids, I was referring to what constitute the majority of the US, Canadian and Holland markets offering's genetic backbone (including your seeds): hybrids made in America. Haze, Skunk, NL, Mac, GG etc.
Granted, I wasn't there in the 70's but there isn't any indications or stories that it was better than the Charas available today when you go the source, far from the tourists traps.
Do you really want us to believe that people in Nepal stopped growing the plants that they selected, tended and enjoyed for centuries for many uses (the nepalese strains are multi-uses: seeds, fibers and drug) because the hippies stopped coming and the laws changed ? Do you think that all the places in Nepal and even in the Himalayas has just one strain that mysteriously disappeared ?
As for the American hybrids, I was referring to what constitute the majority of the US, Canadian and Holland markets offering's genetic backbone (including your seeds): hybrids made in America. Haze, Skunk, NL, Mac, GG etc.
romanoweed
Well-known member
yes! i want
I mean not like you said..
The people changed focus.. They still grew "something"..
I mean we talk about hypothesis, in my Hypothesis, first of all there is Eidence that today, multiple samples taken from Robert Clarke of Southindian and Northindian.. Compared it, he found: The Weed in North is much more similar to south genetically.
Much more than in the Samples from 50 Years agao.. Thats what he said..
So, he said himselve: probably thats cause Hybridisation..
Boom.. Big claims out of his mouth.
Wrong?
Ahhm.. For me it fits super into what my Viepoint is. And it is, that weed today is compromised all over the word.. THIS IS NO CLAIM, this is my oppinion
I am also saying this about my favored Region, wich i love to death, Vietnam.. Its no different at all,
IF there was still the same class of Vietnamese alive in Vietnam, i would long flight over to there.
(i mean , probably if very very lucky there is a grandpaa that mooved since 50 years, and found an old seed in Fridgestorage.. )
Thats what i assume.. Believe is not what i do when it comes to observing Nature.. The highest i do is assume, and im very firm.
Finding old Nepali, close to impossible i think. Same for any other Region
The way you write it, im pretty shure, hell , go researchthe disapperance of any Landrace..
I google those Food Landrace Seedbanks for a while, and they seemed to say something like: NOBODY in the Goverment will preserve Landraces.. Nobody will buy them, no farmers want them, close to no private persons..
The made it clear that Seedpreservation has to be funded privately, and nobody will be interested ..
I principially see alot such old, wellworking Systems to feed yourselve, your Town, theyre gone.. or dissapearing .. Everywhere..
Its possible you find a tiny village doing it the same. BUT hybridisation will endanger it. Again, in the case of Nepal, yes, i think prohibition was enough to disturb such old traditions, how to select a good plant, the people now had to hide if before the planted in garden. and the regions where more police around, there the tradition died stonger, so, this pollen very likely reaches the secluded hidden villages..
Well, thats what i assume, plus the evidence of hybridisation. Im assuming most is gone, yeah, and i mean the little villages too.. You may be lucky.
Anyway, there are 3 Old Indian Lines that im about to ask for them , thats the stuff i search, the rest is not as good i assume, i have zero hope, i have never heard its the same with justification, only as sentence.. Proove it, find hallucinogenic weed today, good luck, i wish you the best, but im on another way.. The hard hunt for ages for westeners old Seedstash with old Landraces.
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All of the genetics in the USA came from other countries long ago. We made our homegrown from those killer imposts. What seeds people buy is what drives most breeding projects. Many of us make them so we can keep the lights on. Some more than others. There are some of us that are working in "landrace genetics". I wouldn't call haze an American hybrid at all. The genetics today are all hybrids. If you talk to those growing seeds in Nepal today or any country they are all hybrids labeled landrace lol. This discussion is way off the topic for this thread.
Going back to your original comment that Temple ball hash made today is the same as it was 50 years ago is just false IMO.. Here's a link from Frenchy Cannoli how to make some Charas..
[URL unfurl="true"]https://static1.squarespace.com/static/59cd905351a5846569cfbbca/t/5b31585a6d2a73f2d1efce70/1529960544725/Charas+-+The+First+Concentrate%2C+Weed+World%2C+%23115.pdf[/URL]
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romanoweed
Well-known member
Vintage Mexican:
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Vintage Thai:
Vintage Thai:
Thank you for the interesting reply, Romano and Hammerhead ! I will try to answer both of you in the same post
I never said that "temple balls" are the same as today, I don't even know if this kind of hash is still made, I was reacting to the declaration that the genetics don't exist anymore.
I do agree that in some countries like Vietnam or Thailand there are strains that disappeared but in the case of Himalayan regions we have to take in consideration the fact that there is huge feral population that is always exchanging pollen with the cultivated plots, it's a permanent pollinisation system. If you have been there you know what I am talking about: it's everywhere, as ubiquitous as weeds, like a forest of cannabis growing in the ditches, it's amazing. At last it was when I visited in the 90s.
I have been beautifully higher smoking in a shillum some feral buds snatched from a ditch than with "Parvati hash" from Greenhouse Coffeeshop in Amsterdam and some Charas bought in the street in Manali (both did nothing and were total tourist trap/crap). I was lucky to sample some real Parvati from a modest farmer and it was one of my deepest cannabis experience.
What I mean is that the old school nepalese can't really be lost since it has a natural "feral reservoir" of high quality genetics. Himalayan strains aren't strong THC%wise, the quality is in the effects, not strength. Even with modern hybrids introduced in the region, it would not change that much given the strong selective pressures of the Himalayan terroir. The hallucinogenic/visionary properties famous in the 70s weren't from those regions, by the way (but maybe I'm mistaken on this), it was more from ganja producing region (not hash), like Thailand, Vietnam, South India.
As for the Robert Clarke observations, I will research it, it's interesting and logical that there has been exchanges of seeds from different regions.
But saying that "Those old genetics are gone !!!." is what I still respectfully disagree because 1: we don't and can't know what happened in all Nepal, it's a big country with secluded regions and valleys and 2: The plants haven't been eradicated like it is happening in Kerala, even in case of abandoning the old ways under pressure or disinterest, the Himalayan feral populations still retain the genetics, even if hybridized (it doesn't apply to other countries). I think that all is not lost, but maybe it's my optimistic nature ?
As for the American hybrids thing, hehe, it's another can of worms but for me Haze is a genuine American creation, whatever Colombian (or other imported genetics) were used to create it. Hell, even Colombian strains were the results of crossing imported genetics since there were no cannabis prior to it's introduction post Colombus. But it's just a point of view, a way to classify.
I never said that "temple balls" are the same as today, I don't even know if this kind of hash is still made, I was reacting to the declaration that the genetics don't exist anymore.
I do agree that in some countries like Vietnam or Thailand there are strains that disappeared but in the case of Himalayan regions we have to take in consideration the fact that there is huge feral population that is always exchanging pollen with the cultivated plots, it's a permanent pollinisation system. If you have been there you know what I am talking about: it's everywhere, as ubiquitous as weeds, like a forest of cannabis growing in the ditches, it's amazing. At last it was when I visited in the 90s.
I have been beautifully higher smoking in a shillum some feral buds snatched from a ditch than with "Parvati hash" from Greenhouse Coffeeshop in Amsterdam and some Charas bought in the street in Manali (both did nothing and were total tourist trap/crap). I was lucky to sample some real Parvati from a modest farmer and it was one of my deepest cannabis experience.
What I mean is that the old school nepalese can't really be lost since it has a natural "feral reservoir" of high quality genetics. Himalayan strains aren't strong THC%wise, the quality is in the effects, not strength. Even with modern hybrids introduced in the region, it would not change that much given the strong selective pressures of the Himalayan terroir. The hallucinogenic/visionary properties famous in the 70s weren't from those regions, by the way (but maybe I'm mistaken on this), it was more from ganja producing region (not hash), like Thailand, Vietnam, South India.
As for the Robert Clarke observations, I will research it, it's interesting and logical that there has been exchanges of seeds from different regions.
But saying that "Those old genetics are gone !!!." is what I still respectfully disagree because 1: we don't and can't know what happened in all Nepal, it's a big country with secluded regions and valleys and 2: The plants haven't been eradicated like it is happening in Kerala, even in case of abandoning the old ways under pressure or disinterest, the Himalayan feral populations still retain the genetics, even if hybridized (it doesn't apply to other countries). I think that all is not lost, but maybe it's my optimistic nature ?
As for the American hybrids thing, hehe, it's another can of worms
but for me Haze is a genuine American creation, whatever Colombian (or other imported genetics) were used to create it. Hell, even Colombian strains were the results of crossing imported genetics since there were no cannabis prior to it's introduction post Colombus. But it's just a point of view, a way to classify.
I want those seeds lol.
I found it very disheartening the locals from weed mountain India do not dispose of the garbage properly. There's a huge generational gap affecting the quality produced today. Modern hybrids were introduced to this region at least as early as the 1980s. So-called landraces in the Malana region are increasingly affected by introduced modern hybrids. Collectors are advised that purity cannot be guaranteed. The same thing has happened all over the world.
xet
Active member
Really excellent info, thx for sharing!Love this thread guys! the only thing that has changed in cannabis now to back then is the compounds within the genetics.
Back then you had mixed spectrum of compounds over 20 to 60 that give a different feeling. smell, taste, effect complexity etc etc because those compounds are also monoterps that effect everything including potency smell, taste etc.
Today we have lots of strains that have 1 or 2 main compounds which is usually THC-A (which is actually a conversion of real THC which in my opinion is the biggest problem with our polyhybirds 1 trick ponies i call them) & CDB maybe CBN and few others at very low scales 00.2% and a few monoterps usually high in 1 2 or 3 and low in the rest. 00.2%
Example an old landrace could have 15 monoterps and 20+ active compounds in the genes with many phenos giving different results, so what you end up with is a wide array of compounds including monoterps which enhances your experience
Compare that to a bottleneck F1 Feminized strain... where a person ran through 100s of phenos of a strain and choose the 1 displaying the most THC and strongest smell.
Lets use Chem D..They choose the best chem D and cloned it. 1 pheno from 1000s of expressions in that strain.
What your left with is a plant that's high in only THC-a low CBD and maybe 2 monoterps so everybody is experiencing the same plant every single time, same compounds, that would be very different if they had 5 or 10 added compounds.
So maybe newer cannabis is stronger due to selection but only stronger on the THC-A side like a 1 trick pony but the best pony you seen!!.. but lacks complexity in the high which will lead to tripper effects.
Like as i mentioned when you choose 1 pheno that has the most THC-a and loudest smell mycerne you normally end up with non complexity but a lot of strength in 1 area.
Its like a cake... some people love a cake with lots of flavours and textures and complex tastes which in turns satisfies them, where maybe the next guy like a triple chocolate cake and he is happy and full after it.
The only difference was the ingredients (compounds).
Another personal thing i would like to add is The Dea were into a lot of countries cannabis they literally went into peoples countries destroyed there landrace and left, why? well look at the dates 80's 90s most good landrace was ruined by this type of stuff... then you look at legalisation in america then you look at who is the mecca of cannabis and sells it the world over? America does. And that's what america and Cananda want!! they want you from (insert country) to source your cannabis from them and not be able to source the real genes and compounds available in cannabis they want you on the generic THC-A THC-V the fake stuff that science recently claimed thc converts to THC-A... yeah just after legalization that happened
Here's an example of what im talking about. CHEM D. Notice all the non detections of compounds and the compounds it does display are very low almost non existing to.
0.58 real THC.. The conversion to A in my opinion is the generic THC.. you can link scientific articles all day proving the conversion happens yet you fail to realise the source of the info is probably Agenda driven and im talking real agenda not some guy in his basement messing with phenos. World agenda.
This is 1 pheno, 1 small example of the strains we get. 1 reversed female on itself or crossed to another f1 chemical Feminized 1 pheno of 1000s. you end up with blandness. no complexity which for me is the main effect of great cannabis.
Not to mention people constantly reversing the same clones and strains over and over, Mutating the genes before you even pop them.
Anyway my 2 cent i could literally keep going on this subject but i wont get to deep.
Cheers for all the photos and articles and good vibes to the ole heads here and the newer and in between guys.
We all love cannabis doesn't matter if it came from the 70s 80s 90s till 2020. The plant rules over time. PEACE to all.
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xet
Active member
Much of that is probably to due with the hard drug addiction sweeping majority youths...
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jessethestoner
Active member
I think its odd we would tell others what they should be into and blaming a deviation from landraces to modern strains could be blamed on factors like drug addictions
xet
Active member
I am blaming the crushing drug addictions for littering the forest with tens of thousands of pounds of trash.
I don't remember anyone getting locked up for weed until Regan got elected. I think his smile says it all..
TAÏNY
Active member
Regan
Ronald Reagan? Coz if it's who you are referring to... He was elected as the president of the United States in 1981...
