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Tons of information on Humic and Fulvic acid and their sources.

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Fulvic acid is able to penetrate the leaf and even the mitochondria of a cell because of its small molecular size, which makes it great for foliar sprays and root drenches. By comparison humic acid is a fantastic soil conditioner and better for dry broad cast and soil/soil-less application.

Humic substances are a broad class of organic compounds operationally defined by their solubility at different pHs and retention on hydrophobic resins (Aiken, 1988; Thurman, 1985).

From blackearth.com:

The Differences Between Leonardite and Humalite:

Leonardite Ranges Considerably In Humic And Fulvic Acid Content. Leonardite deposits can have as low as 10% humic acid content and as high as 78%. It’s derived from Lignite based coal and was formed in salt water deposits. The other 20-90% of the product that isn't the active ingredient is made up of ash and heavy metals.

Humalite is a name given to the humate material deposited in Alberta, Canada. It is singled out because the material has a different composition and is not derived from Lignite. It is derived from weathered sub-bituminous coal, and opposite of leonardite, it was formed in a fresh water environment, not a salt water one. When humalite is harvested, the resulting final product averages 87% humic acid. Each batch is individually tested to ensure that it maintains the quality and guaranteed 80% humic acid content that it is known for. This means more humic and fulvic acid content, and considerably less of the undesired ash and heavy metals that are found in Leonardite.

The main benefits of Humic Acids are that they stimulate microbiology, enhance the uptake of nutrients, and condition the soils paramaters such as Carbon, pH, CEC.


Link to article:
https://www.blackearth.com/blog/bid/363896/the-relationship-between-humalite-leonardite-and-fertilizers

From the BioAg site:

BioAg starts with high quality humate material, rich in humic & fulvic!

Leonardite refers to slack (oxidized) lignite; typically found in North Dakota, Wyoming and other locations around the world [the term was first coined by Dr. Leonard at the University of ND]. This exact material has a good amount of humic, but is lower in fulvic. However, now this term has spread and many people refer to humates in general as Leonardite.

BioAg uses a carbonaceous shale or mudstone. Even in this formation the quality varies according to geological time of deposit or depth. A couple hundred feet this way or that and you probably have a different quality of material. Our raw material contains imprints of plants. In basic terms, our humate is fossilized peat from broad-leaved freshwater plants.

Leonardite is salt water reed/sledge based.

Why Is This Important To Distinguish?


Bottom line is the bioactivity of the final product (humic and fulvic acid products). Analysis of various forms of humates from different sources have been conducted. Results show that BioAg's material contains 12% bioactive fulvic acid based ore. Leonardite contains approximately 8% fulvic acid and high humic (up to 80%). However, unlike many claim, bioactivity is low...this form of humate material is great for drilling mud, not for bioactive products.

Form, Molecular Weight And Biological Activity:

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The best humate is one that is high in biological activity, fulvic/humic acids, silicic acids and also high in oxygen in the phenolic and quinoid groups. Humic acids function best in the low weight fulvic fraction on the cellular level. Molecular weight is very important with the high oxygen types usually falling into the low weight (smaller sized molecules) category and thus more biologically active since only low weight molecules are utilized by beneficial organisims, enter cell membranes more efficiently, create greater permeability for the flow of nutrition into the cell and adsorption of excess heavy metals for removal from the cell.

In agriculture, stimulation of each cell produces more energy from the plant and higher yield. The process starts with soil microbes, then plant root cells and eventually the entire plant. We can also do this by foliar spraying soluble fulvic acids and adding a humic solution to the soil at planting, Cellular stimulation at all levels is achieved.

The Bottom Line & Results?

This is an economic issue, boiled down to how much humic acid is one getting per dollar and what is the cellular stimulation level? Consider the fact that the more concentrated a humate product the cheaper it is to transport and apply. Therefore, the most concentrated source is the best buy due to transportation costs alone.

Consider the standard source of humic acid provided by many suppliers and their distributors-Leonardite, which *can* contain over 80% humic acids. On the surface, this would seem to be the highest. However, this is not the most effective unless it is made into a soluble form where it becomes effective at low rate and the humic acids of the soluble powder can be over 80%. It is also low in the fulvic portion, the bioactive portion. These claims are often misleading, and not the fault of any one company, but a result of lack of testing standardization in our industry. Humates are valuable products, and until our industry can agree on some forms of standardization, only deal with companies with a track record and a proven high-grade product.

Link to article:
https://www.bioag.com/educationandresources.html
 
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Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Some humic/fulvic acid products ive been looking at:

from The Andersons inc:

Humic DG and Black Gypsum DG

Featuring the same dual carbon sources that make Humic DG unique, Black Gypsum DG is a unique bio-amendment that combines natural gypsum and humic substances in one, homogenous prill.

Containing a combination of gypsum, humate and humic acid precursor, Black Gypsum DG delivers calcium, sulfur and humate (a rich source of carbon) directly to the soil utilizing our dispersing granule (DG) technology.

The gypsum found in Black Gypsum DG is naturally chelated, supplying calcium without changing soil pH, and adding sulfur where needed. Acting as a soil conditioner, gypsum loosens hard packed soils and enhances the flushing of harmful salts and excess sodium.

Like Humic DG, Black Gypsum DG contains dual carbon sources: humic acid precursor (plant based carbon) and humate (bio-organic based carbon). Humic acid precursor is transformed into humic and fulvic acids, helping to chelate nutrients in the soil. Humates works to prolong humic acid soil activity and to help stimulate soil microbes and biologic activity within the plant. Humates also act as a chelating agent for micronutrients, enhancing the utilization and efficiency of applied and existing nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorus.

Upon contact with water, DG technology breaks down each Black Gypsum DG granule into thousands of micro particles. These micro particles self-incorporate into the soil, moving gypsum and humic acid directly into the plant root zone and providing immediate benefits to both the soil and plant.

Black Gypsum DG provides the following benefits:

Increases calcium and sulfur without changing soil pH
Enhances efficiency of applied and existing nutrients
Increases soil CEC and tilth
Reduces soil salinity
Reduces thatch and stalk residue

Why Black Gypsum DG Over Other Types of Standard Gypsum?
Our gypsum source is calcium sulfate di-hydrate (CaSO4·2H2O), which, with two extra water molecules, is more water soluble than the anhydrite form (CaSO4). These extra molecules make calcium and sulfur more quickly available to the plant – as soon as Black Gypsum DG enters the soil solution.

While a plant receiving the anhydrite form of calcium would be forced to wait days or weeks to take advantage of the applied nutrients, a plant receiving a Black Gypsum DG application begins to utilize the nutrients in hours, thanks to the di-hydrate calcium and our dispersing granule (DG) technology.


Black Gypsum DG delivers 21% humic acid delivered in every application. This humate is quick acting, and provides further chelation of applied and existing nutrients, increasing their availability to the plant.

Link to site:
https://andersonshumates.com/products/
 
Thanks for putting that info together ... I've just been starting to dig deeper into the fulvics and humates over the past few months, and so this gives me a couple of extra sources of reference material to research.
 
Great stuff! I used humic in my drip system on my commercial tomato/pepper grows. It's great for flavor and a bit of production as far as I can tell. Seems to help with nutrient absorption in heavy clay soils also. According to wiki it helps with clay plasticity. Thanks for the work.
 

mexweed

Well-known member
I use dirt m.d. at the recommended dose of 1tsp per gallon of water every 2 weeks, I aerate it for 48 hours with worm castings and buffaloam loose tea
 

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Recharge is another one that the captain and Growmau5 use/recommend.

Recharge Guaranteed Analysis:

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Glomis aggregatum 6.4 CFU/g

Glomis mosseae 6.4 CFU/g

Glomis intraradices 6.4 CFU/g

Glomis etunicatum 6.4 CFU/g

Bacticillus licheniformis 100,000,000 CFU/g

Bacticillus pumilus 100,000,000 CFU/g

Bacticillus subtilus 100,000,000 CFU/g

Bacticillus megaterium 100,000,000 CFU/g

Tricoderma reesei 250,000 CFU/g

Tricoderma harzianum 250,000 CFU/g

Kelp 12%
Molasses 6%
Humic Acid 5%
Fulvic Acid 3%
Amino Acid 3%
 
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Avenger

Well-known member
Fulvic Fraction – the extracted portion of humic substances that are soluble in both alkali and acid aqueous
solutions.

Hydrophobic Fulvic Acids - are the portions of humic substances that are soluble in both alkali and acidic
aqueous solutions that are separated from non-humic aqueous substances in the fulvic fraction by selective
adsorption onto a nonionic macroporous acrylic ester resin of moderate polarity i.e. DAX-8 resin, at low pH.

The Hydrophillic substances in the Fulvic Acid Fraction are not humic/fulvic acid, but rather amino acids polysachrides lignosulfonates ect.

A New Standardized Method for Quantification of Humic and Fulvic Acids in Humic Ores and Commercial Products said:
This
stricter definition of FA facilitates the distinction of hydrophobic
FA from the more hydrophilic components in the classical fulvic
fraction, i.e., polysaccharides, amino sugars, amino acids,
proteins, fatty acids, carbohydrates, lipids, etc., that may be
extracted by strong base along with humic substances

see your first post,
[QUOTEIbechillin]Fulvic Acids:, which are hydrophilic acids soluble under all pH conditions (isolated using XAD-4 resin), [/QUOTE]
 
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Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
The method proposed by Lamar et al in May 2014 recently became the international standard for the analysis of humic acids and hydrophobic fulvic acids in commercial humic products on July, 17, 2018.

Link:

www.humictrade.org/news-and-events/
(remove the https:// from beginning of site address to load)
 
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CannaRed

Cannabinerd
Ibechillin, what are your thoughts on shilajit? Ever used it?
Or the product Willard's Water?
Supposedly they did a green house test on cannabis and it showed higher yield.

I use Recharge just about every other watering or so. I really noticed a burst in both growth and health, after they very first use, so I use it often. Not sure if I need to use it as often as I do, but it can't hurt.
 

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
A few weeks ago I saw a thread about shilajit here on icmag and read into it. Honestly seems essentially the same to me as leonardite/humates. When I looked into williards water it seemed like total bullshit lol.
 

CannaRed

Cannabinerd
A few weeks ago I saw a thread about shilajit here on icmag and read into it. Honestly seems essentially the same to me as leonardite/humates. When I looked into williards water it seemed like total bullshit lol.

That's what I thought when I first heard of Willard's Water. Someone from their company was on Adam Dunn show, I think Willard's son or grandson. Sounded like bs. I remember someone in studio asked if it was shilajit in the water, rep said "no".
My guess is it is.
 

frostqueen

Member
I've been using RAW's fulvic and humic products for years now. They are bare bones and very affordable IMO.

I especially like the formula Harley gives for adding humic and kelp together at a 5:2 ratio. He says this is the method Dutch growers use for optimum results. You use 5 parts fulvic and 2 parts kelp extract for a foliar spray, or 5 parts humic and 2 parts kelp extract for a root drench. He says every 10 days in veg for best effect.

I know that my mother plants definitely produce better clones when I hit them with the foliar spray 7 days before taking cuttings.
 

Lyfespan

Active member
I've been using RAW's fulvic and humic products for years now. They are bare bones and very affordable IMO.

I especially like the formula Harley gives for adding humic and kelp together at a 5:2 ratio. He says this is the method Dutch growers use for optimum results. You use 5 parts fulvic and 2 parts kelp extract for a foliar spray, or 5 parts humic and 2 parts kelp extract for a root drench. He says every 10 days in veg for best effect.

I know that my mother plants definitely produce better clones when I hit them with the foliar spray 7 days before taking cuttings.

same here, i use the RAW line as additives, as needed, and love their water solubility, and Harleys hints. Kelp foliars will always be used for better clone rooting. key to life nutrients also has a 5:2 foliar
 

Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Ive learned alot from Harley Smith, he is an awesome dude! Thanks frostqueen for the info on the 5:2 humic/fulvic ratio, more good research to dig into! Speaking of kelp products Ive been sharing this around whenever I get the chance, similar to how fulvic is recommended for foliar and humic is ideal for root drench auxin and cytokinin need applied separately.

Be careful when buying seaweeds. There are good ones and ones that have little value. Also, where to apply them and when is an issue.

For example, applying a cytokinin to the roots will actually tend to stall the plants. Roots get lazy. Always apply cytokinin seaweeds foliarly. Small quantities constantly and mixed with other foliars. The best cytokinin source on the market is North American Kelp, Seacrop 16. It has the highest guaranteed cytokinin level on the planet, 400ppms. This should be used from veg up through week 3 of flower.

For root applications, you really want to use an auxin seaweed source. So far, the only one that I have been able to find in the US is Kelpak. This applied to roots and foliage, forces more roots. Don't use it after week 1 of flower. All through veg is great.

We did side by side tests. Been through the bunch, Acadian, Maxi, SM6 (UK) and a few I can't remember. many folk won't get a lot of response from a good seaweed product if they really don't have their nutrition dialed in. That means having enough Ca and P most times. Most folk don't. All the seaweed in the world can't get you past the big problems. This is why many say, oh, tried it and I didn't see much. But that can also come from low hormone content. Many seaweed products aren't actually made for fertilizer use

eric2028 shared a formula he tryed in his turbokloner recently I cant wait to try! Pics are day 14 in turbokloner:

Ro water, 10 mls of clonex, 3-4 mls of hormex, 6 mls of clear Rez all per gallon. Change out at day 7 to 12-15 mls clonex and 6 mls of clear Rez per gallon no hormex. Your ph should be around 6 and your temps should be low 70’s( you already know).

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Ibechillin

Masochist Educator
Ibechillin, what are your thoughts on shilajit? Ever used it?
Or the product Willard's Water?
Supposedly they did a green house test on cannabis and it showed higher yield.

I use Recharge just about every other watering or so. I really noticed a burst in both growth and health, after they very first use, so I use it often. Not sure if I need to use it as often as I do, but it can't hurt.

A few weeks ago I saw a thread about shilajit here on icmag and read into it. Honestly seems essentially the same to me as leonardite/humates. When I looked into williards water it seemed like total bullshit lol.

Ive been researching medicine extensively lately and came across an article explaining the health benefits of fulvic acid for people as well. it also verified my initial assumption above that shilajit is the same/similar as leonardite/humates.

Link to article: The Little Known Miracle Of Life: Fulvic Acid

https://www.greenmedinfo.health/blog/little-known-miracle-life-fulvic-acid
 
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