The Big L.E.D. Driver Discussion -

[indagroove]

1st I loved ur question thanks

Gotta dig deeper, I can't be arsed screen shotting the whole line up and making a spreadsheet to prove a point

Most ppl here are in the USA so at that voltage arnt even getting %90 efficiency with the hlg drivers
Xlg dims to off, hlg to %10
Cost is much less for the xlg and 3 year warranty vs 5 year warranty means nothing
If U didn't install it in a hot location it will run 10 years
If too hot only 5

Sure the HLG has slightly better specs I agree, if run on 230v

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2nd feels like a kick in the guts that this thread is a sticky even though it has no content and especially as those who decided it was worth a sticky have over looked the years of work ive put in here

That is great info there, and something that I hadn't yet looked at. That said, there are a few inconsistencies in that comparison. For one thing, you are comparing a 150watt XLG driver with a 240watt HLG driver; however if you were to compare a XLG-240-L driver with a HLG-240-H-48 driver, the XLG model would look even better for those numbers. Here's the graph for that driver:

However, now we're faced with a different inconsistency, which is that the drivers put out two very different voltages, with the XLG-240-L driver putting out 178~ 342V, while the HLG-240H-48A driver puts out 24 ~ 48V, so it seems to be an inequitable comparison. Typically the more common driver selection would be a HLG-240H-54A (27 ~ 54V) compared to a XLG-240-H (27 ~ 56V) driver, but I don't seem to find any graphs on those specific models.

Also, it's interesting to note that in the graphs you posted, that the XLG is based on a Tcase temp at 75?, while the HLG is Tcase at 80?.

The XLG definitely is good driver, but I'm not sure I'm convinced yet that it's superior to the HLG line, all things being equal. I do see what you're saying about the "hidden wattage" of the xlg line tho, with it being capable of putting out up to 6660mA compared to the hlg line topping out at 4450mA. I am curious about the efficiency of both drivers once you go past the 240watt rating of the driver. Both drivers can produce at least 20% more power than that rating, but the posted charts don't consider anything past 240watts in terms of power factor.

 

[Dion]

Great thread

 

[indagroove]

So when U don't fill up the HLG you get horrible efficiency refer to graphs

The xlg is designed to be full at all times and get that %100 of possible efficiency


Like I said I can't really be fuct doing a spreadsheet

The take away is most ppl using hlg drivers thinking they are getting high %90 efficiency are barely hitting %90

So if U use an xlg and fill it up it's cheaper and better efficiency

That doesn't address what happens to efficiency once you get past "100%", because both drivers will indeed push more wattage than their max rating, which is something that the documentation does not address. No one's asking you to do a spreadsheet here, it's a casual conversation.

Additionally your statement that "So when U don't fill up the HLG you get horrible efficiency refer to graphs" is really quite misleading. That is indeed true when dimmed down lower than 30%, but charts you posted do not support your assertion when run above 30% power. In fact if you look at the XLG240, it has the same issue below 30%, but the chart you posted only goes down to 50%, so you aren't seeing that data in the chart you posted for the XLG driver.

 

[indagroove]

Here's some better charts to compare, which show values below 50% for both driver types, each being a 240watt rated driver:

What I'm seeing is better efficiency at 50% from the HLG (around 90% efficient @ 115V AC) compared to the XLG (around 88% efficient @ 115V AC).

 

[Dion]

Great thread

 

[indagroove]

No that's incorrect
Dimming is a seperate conversation

I'm talking about when we use a constant current driver, run leds in series and have a few spare volts left on each string

This is the most common way ppl rig lights up

So think about what leds U would put on the hlg
If U go even 1 volt over it starts dropping current, worst case scenario starts flickering
If Ur voltage is under then U get the inefficiency




The xlg is designed to avoid this issue can't say for sure but when I tested the XLG 150 series running at 165w the draw from the walk was around 166w at 230v

Don't have 120v AC down here

Got it. Yes I guess it does depend on how you are wiring your LEDs and what lights you are using.

Personally in my case I don't run my LEDs in series, I run two boards in parallel off one HLG-240-H-54A, which can be set for either cc or cv mode; at least that's how it's explained by LED Gardner in one of his videos, which I assumed was true, but perhaps that's a mistake? I guess I assumed that the XLG series with the "A" type dimming options also could be set for either cc or cv mode, but perhaps somethings different, or I was given false information. I'll have to find that video and check again. Perhaps I've made a false presumption of how those models operate. It does seem like with the "A" version of either driver, if they have two pots for dimming, one is for voltage and the other is for current, right? It would seem that with the two dimming options, it would follow that there would also be two modes of operation. Forgive my ignorance here, if I'm mistaken; I have no hands on experience with the XLG line, and my presumptions are admittedly based on speculation (tho I'm a decent speculator, lol).

The lights I run are HLG QB96's, which have a higher voltage tolerance (up to at least 56v) compared to the more common QB288, which has a voltage range of 50v to 54v, so they match very well with the HLG-240H-54A. I can basically crank both pots to max on the driver, and pull 300 watts from the wall, no flicker. I've honestly never measured current or voltage at the board, mainly because it just hasn't seemed to matter to me yet. Maybe I should take some measurements at board level tho. I'm assuming that when I pull 300watts form the wall, it's really closer to 270watts at the boards (135watts per board in parallel). All I really care about tho is what I pull from the wall, and how that compares to my final yield. My lights aren't the most efficient QB's but they use high-powered diodes, so there's a tradeoff. I did just order a couple more QB96's tho to add in parallel to the existing strings (3lights in parallel per driver), and will run each driver at the same wattage as between for lower wattage per board with better spread).

 

[Klompen]

Great thread

It really isn't yet, but your attitude isn't helping a lot honestly. I just want a sticky devoted to drivers and only drivers. Why have such a bad attitude about it? You clearly know LED drivers and could actually contribute, but instead you keep doing this. Why reply to this thread at all if you hate it so much?

 

[Koondense]

I think it's because there are already tons of dion's posts about the subject in his own thread which never was put in the right place. Maybe it was a different time back then but the attitude is still the same

 

[Klompen]

I'm all for his info getting merged and getting stickied. I didn't make this thread because I am a driver expert, but rather because I'd like to get people like him to help centralize all we need to know. I am working on formatting this sticky, but I need a little more substance to it before I start posting the draft.

 

[Dion]

It really isn't yet, but your attitude isn't helping a lot honestly. I just want a sticky devoted to drivers and only drivers. Why have such a bad attitude about it? You clearly know LED drivers and could actually contribute, but instead you keep doing this. Why reply to this thread at all if you hate it so much?

Because ppl like you make this thread a sticky when there isn't anything of value in it
When U know nothing of the Subject matter you wish to discuss
Even don't know the name of the thing the thread is about

How will u edit it when U don't know what is bullshit and what is true?
How will u be sure the final info is correct? U won't

You could have simply asked those who know to contribute and we can make a great thread with good content and value

BUT instead we have the start of a looooooong thread that will be filled with discussion mostly subjective from ppl who are regurgitating misinformation and I don't wish to add value to it for you lot to monotise

The reason I replied was to help that grower out

He got the info already so no point in leaving my posts there


I would suggest U delete this thread and start one with a bit more thoghht, like get the name of the device U wanna talk about right
Figure out what exactly U want to discuss here
Maybe we could start with a chart showing the most common drivers?
Discuss the A vs B vs AB meanwell dimming options
Wiring dimmers
Dimming multiple drivers ect


But this is just going to turn into a cluster fuck of bad info and nuggets of wisdom scattered in that the noob won't be able to tell the dif

Also because led drivers are the most simple and easy to understand part of building an led so really there is nothing BIG to discuss here



Of course there is also the point that my thread should have been sticked years ago and I needed help with formatting, the info I laid down there was years ahead of the curve , things like environmental temp, the spectrum scam ect only now we are getting proper research papers that support that info

And all the while I get verbal spankings for calling out led sellers spouting lies with claims that I'm trolling your sponsors

Yeah I'm hurt, when I got out of jail and saw that koondense was the only one here still trying to make the led section good after all these years it broke my heart

Icmag could have been the place to go for led Info

We have so many growers from all over the world we can help


The led market is %99 bullshit anyways so threads like this don't help


I only ever had 1 goal when I joined this forum, to help growers get good lights and not fall for scams yet your mods make that too hard to bother anymore

so that it can be a valuable resource for growers,

I'm more than happy to help

But I do not want to contribute to this thread as it is now so I will respect you and refrain from posting here

Infact almost every sticky in the led section is outdated and not useful/incorrect

Icmag led section looks like the special needs class

And that is the reason no serious led company would ever advertise on icmag

It would be a discredit to Thier reputation

 

[Klompen]

I did not make it a sticky. You really have yourself worked up over nothing. Why is this place so fucking negative lately?

 

[indagroove]

Well, golly gee.. This thread went downhill fast.

 

[Klompen]

Yeah, I am not sure how asking for submissions for a sticky got so negative.

 

[Mr. J]

Well I can see what he's saying.

 

[Dion]

I did not make it a sticky. You really have yourself worked up over nothing. Why is this place so fucking negative lately?

U asked why I deleted my post I answered

U asked why I have a bad attitude I answered


You skipped over the part where I offered to collaborate and made suggestions on what content could be valuable in this thread


When U focus only on the negative it's gonna feel like a negative place mate, that however is your doing not mine

 

[Klompen]

I wish you well but you very specifically said you would not be contributing to this thread, and then proceeded to insult everyone here by calling this section "special needs". The entire purpose of this was to get experts to submit information about drivers, but you're so super angry that its not really contributing anything. You're angry about something that you seem to think you're in a really good position to fix. I find that confusing is all. I wish you well though. Take it easy.

U asked why I deleted my post I answered

U asked why I have a bad attitude I answered


You skipped over the part where I offered to collaborate and made suggestions on what content could be valuable in this thread


When U focus only on the negative it's gonna feel like a negative place mate, that however is your doing not mine

 

[chilliwilli]

Hi folks
i'm running 2 240w kingbrite sets with hlg-240h-48ab driver. The boards are connected parallel.
Can i get a third board for each set and connect it parallel too? So the 3 boards share the 5A and imo run at better efficiency. The boards should run on 48v 900mA-2700mA
thx chilliwilli

 

[lamer00]

Hello Ladies and Gentelmens.

I`m building new flower room atm and need advice
I have 2x1,3m (7x4,3ft) vertical wall to light up. I would like to use Bridgelux EB2 strips (BXEB-L0560Z-35E2000-C-B3) because they are pretty cheap and efficient.
From what i could find for grow you have to have about 40W@sqft (in flower period) that gives ~1120W of LEDs (~28sqft).
So i think of doing 6 panels of 10 strips each with HLG-240H-24B and dimm it a little (so I don`t drive strips and PSU in max range).
Room dimensions are 2x2m (7x7ft) x 1,7m (5,7ft) height, but i need to go vert cause i have broken spine and cant hang over plants like i used to.
This room is only for flower and I think I have everything except light figured out. Can someone be so kind and please verify is my idea correct?
Thank You very much
Cheers.

 

[Klompen]

Is your plan to just go vertical on it? I am discovering that side-lighting does not add the same watts as overhead lighting but only up to a point. For example whereas you might normally not benefit from more than 40watts per square foot, you are also growing more buds on the sides and therefor the plants need more light to a point. So maybe more like 60wpsf might be called for. Just keep in mind that efficiency varies a lot so wpsf from one led won't be the same as another...