Temperature Controller (Thermostat) for Vents

[fonzee]

Hi there

In Europe they have Temperture Controlled vents, which I really liked, but they dont come on most models and companys.
Like this one

Ventilator PK160-TC Temperature Controlled - by primaklima

Highly efficient inline duct fan PK160-TC Temperature Controlled up to 800 m³/h, 160 mm flange, with backward curved blades and aerodynamically optimized housing.

primaklima.com

Big controllers like the one Prima Klima sells, are huge, and are costly, compared to a vent with the controller built-in.

How can I DIY such a 2 dial controller?
The digital thermostats I found cut off the power at the set temperature, I need the vent dimmed to 3% capacity.

Cheers,
Fonzee

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

I've used Lux programmable thermostat outlets for decades. inkbird and a few others are in the game now, but Lux are rock solid performers. They will turn the fan on and off according to the temp settings you input. Dimming would need to be done with another device.

Hoping someone has info on a dual controller of sorts.

 

[Raho]

Hi there

In Europe they have Temperture Controlled vents, which I really liked, but they dont come on most models and companys.
Like this one

Ventilator PK160-TC Temperature Controlled - by primaklima

Highly efficient inline duct fan PK160-TC Temperature Controlled up to 800 m³/h, 160 mm flange, with backward curved blades and aerodynamically optimized housing.

primaklima.com

Big controllers like the one Prima Klima sells, are huge, and are costly, compared to a vent with the controller built-in.

How can I DIY such a 2 dial controller?
The digital thermostats I found cut off the power at the set temperature, I need the vent dimmed to 3% capacity.

Cheers,
Fonzee

In the US?
Check out ACinfinity fans and controllers.

Hydroponics & Growers - VENTILATION - Inline Fan Systems - Page 1 - AC Infinity

www.acinfinity.com

Hydroponics & Growers - CONTROLLERS - Smart UIS™ Controllers - AC Infinity

www.acinfinity.com

 

[f-e]

A normal fan can't run at 3%. To get remotely close, it would have to be an EC fan. Then a controller specific to an EC fan. This perhaps https://www.tropicannahorticulture.com/ec2-controller
It's a $400 outlay.

Do you really want the temperature controlling your fan speed. Leaving RH control in the hands of dehumidifiers that only understand on and off (until we get the EC screw compressors we want but don't know it). If you use RH as the fan speed control, than temperature control with on/off poses much less of a problem. Heaters don't have any downtime requirement between cycles. Also a temperature controller to regulate them based on temperature offset from target is $20. Something aircon can't do (until we get them EC screw compressors, which are in large plants, so coming slowly)

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

You really do not want to put any decent sized grow in the hands of a $20 walmart electronic. The Lux is around $40-50, 15a, and dependable for 10+ years. (Edit: keep in mind the lux only does on/off at a specific temp setting.)

 

[f-e]

$20 gets you a 30 amp ssr thermostat. You set a temp, and tell it how fast to turn the heater up or down as it strays from that temperature. With time constraints so as not to react to drafts. The heaters you use, can have their own stats, so should the ssr fail, the heaters own stat will take over if the temp reaches it. It's belt and braces. The only real problem with it, is the feckin instruction manual

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Walmart electronics are a hazard and unreliable. At the very least, find the device at a non-walmart store so you can be sure you are getting the original product and not a hacked walmart version. Most people are not aware the same brand and model is often produced differently (cheaper parts/design) for walmart sales.

 

[exploziv]

A normal fan can't run at 3%. To get remotely close, it would have to be an EC fan. Then a controller specific to an EC fan. This perhaps https://www.tropicannahorticulture.com/ec2-controller
It's a $400 outlay.

Do you really want the temperature controlling your fan speed. Leaving RH control in the hands of dehumidifiers that only understand on and off (until we get the EC screw compressors we want but don't know it). If you use RH as the fan speed control, than temperature control with on/off poses much less of a problem. Heaters don't have any downtime requirement between cycles. Also a temperature controller to regulate them based on temperature offset from target is $20. Something aircon can't do (until we get them EC screw compressors, which are in large plants, so coming slowly)

Aren't inverter tech AC units same thing basically? since they regulate load based on demand?

 

[fonzee]

I've used Lux programmable thermostat outlets for decades. inkbird and a few others are in the game now, but Lux are rock solid performers. They will turn the fan on and off according to the temp settings you input. Dimming would need to be done with another device.

Hoping someone has info on a dual controller of sorts.

I can get the thermostat for fridges from ali express
US $14.90 19%OFF | AC 220V/10A Mini Temperature Controller -40~120C Thermostat Regulator with Heating Cooling Control

17.64C$ 19% OFF|Ac 220v/10a Mini Temperature Controller -40~120c Thermostat Regulator With Heating Cooling Control - Thermometer Hygrometer - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

And duct tape it to the vent. Then add a dimmer.
Didnt found a slim and slick dimmer yet, and I tend to think adding a potentiometer to dim the vent shouldnt be that difficult.

I can get the ready made one, but I want the freedom to do it with any vent.

In the US?
Check out ACinfinity fans and controllers.

Hydroponics & Growers - VENTILATION - Inline Fan Systems - Page 1 - AC Infinity

www.acinfinity.com

Hydroponics & Growers - CONTROLLERS - Smart UIS™ Controllers - AC Infinity

www.acinfinity.com

Nope, not is the US.
I found several brands in Europe that have this feature.
But some places don't have them, and it doesnt seem like a big or expensive unit on the vents I used which had this feature.

A normal fan can't run at 3%. To get remotely close, it would have to be an EC fan. Then a controller specific to an EC fan. This perhaps https://www.tropicannahorticulture.com/ec2-controller
It's a $400 outlay.

Do you really want the temperature controlling your fan speed. Leaving RH control in the hands of dehumidifiers that only understand on and off (until we get the EC screw compressors we want but don't know it). If you use RH as the fan speed control, than temperature control with on/off poses much less of a problem. Heaters don't have any downtime requirement between cycles. Also a temperature controller to regulate them based on temperature offset from target is $20. Something aircon can't do (until we get them EC screw compressors, which are in large plants, so coming slowly)

3% speed, not voltage. I used to tune the knob to about that point by ear.
I dont really know why, but it worked for me very well in the past during winter time.
I use the fans for more than humidity control, I use it to shorten internodes. I want it constant.

$20 gets you a 30 amp ssr thermostat. You set a temp, and tell it how fast to turn the heater up or down as it strays from that temperature. With time constraints so as not to react to drafts. The heaters you use, can have their own stats, so should the ssr fail, the heaters own stat will take over if the temp reaches it. It's belt and braces. The only real problem with it, is the feckin instruction manual

I need it for cooling with air from the outside during winter. I rather heat with HPS lights than with electric heaters.

Aren't inverter tech AC units same thing basically? since they regulate load based on demand?

Inverter AC units works by levels. They have several (4 usually i believe) levels of power they can work in relation to temperature deficit.
It makes them more effecient than on/off motors, specially when working constantly.

I need the 3-5% power to keep CO2 coming in the room in case theres a few cold days and the thermostat doesnt open the vent at all.



Thanks a lot to all the contributors,
Fonzee

 

[f-e]

I bought a dehu with EC motor. Unfortunately the manufacturer was dumb and didn't know what they wee selling when I asked the right questions. So upon receiving it, I found it was the fan motor that was EC. Also a total waste of the tech as it just has two speeds. Installed for noise, not control.

Big aircon plants sometimes use screw compressors and offer control that will hunt the perfect speed. Though from 100% you can't drop as low as 50% I don't think. Winter demand may still see these big plants cycling on/off. Any refrigeration system that does cycle off, can't restart straight away. This latest dehu waits half an hour. A lot can happen in half hour.


A normal fan can't be reduced to 3% without a vvvf inverter drive. They use mains frequency to send them round at 3000/3600rpm if a two pole design. You can slow them, but that 50/60Hz rotation continues. You can't have such a wide gap between the magnetic and physical rotation speed. 3% is so slow you could count it. It wouldn't be synchronous.

These days we should be ditching the old AC fans and going EC. They have controls just like LED drivers. You can use the variable resistor or 0-10v or PWM.

I'm not sure if the output from a C100 PID can be used for cooling. Perhaps the temp sensor signal could be inverted to trick it. The parts list would still be manageable, but it's becoming a project. I have one here to dim my lights if the extract can't cope, but as yet... it's one of them projects.

Edit: Yes, it will do cooling.
Ever heard the pitch of a bathroom extractor change, as the wind blow outside. When you set the speed of an EC fan, that is exactly what you are setting. Not power. It's tach. So if the wind tries to slow it, it will ramp up the power to keep at the same rpm. This can be very useful in a trickle situation.

 

[Three Berries]

The AC Infinity with the Controller 67 or others they make is the ticket. You need to beg borrow or steal one. Just get one bigger than what you think you need.

You can set temp or humidity to trigger their fan to come on and off or ramp up and down.

I'm running the humidifier this week in flower to drive the humidity up because the fan is running due to high temp. So it cycles for humidity instead of temp and the VDP is perfect. If it just cycled for temp the humidity drops like a rock.

 

[f-e]

The AC Infinity with the Controller 67 or others they make is the ticket. You need to beg borrow or steal one. Just get one bigger than what you think you need.

You can set temp or humidity to trigger their fan to come on and off or ramp up and down.

I'm running the humidifier this week in flower to drive the humidity up because the fan is running due to high temp. So it cycles for humidity instead of temp and the VDP is perfect. If it just cycled for temp the humidity drops like a rock.

That is pretty snazzy for $50. I'm surprised just how complex it seems. Too complex sounding for me, but it had me looking at the site index for something simpler. I'm feeling a bit simpler right now though. I couldn't even see the item I was looking at. I'm generally down on the brand as the fans are weak ass things that won't deal with my filtering. I could chop up that controller though, and put it on a centrifugal. If it were not trying so hard.

I'm really quite tempted for that easy RH based fan speed, with minimum speed setting

The $40 unc529 looks more the ticket for me (I'm getting through it quicker than me internet will post)

 

[exploziv]

Given the electronics to make said controller are like 5 to 10 usd when you mass produce it, not such a great price in my opinion.

 

[Ipotato]

That is pretty snazzy for $50. I'm surprised just how complex it seems. Too complex sounding for me, but it had me looking at the site index for something simpler. I'm feeling a bit simpler right now though. I couldn't even see the item I was looking at. I'm generally down on the brand as the fans are weak ass things that won't deal with my filtering. I could chop up that controller though, and put it on a centrifugal. If it were not trying so hard.

I'm really quite tempted for that easy RH based fan speed, with minimum speed setting

The $40 unc529 looks more the ticket for me (I'm getting through it quicker than me internet will post)

At what tent size do I need to start getting serious about fans?

 

[f-e]

Any size grow @Ipotato
Plants are more air than feed. Much more. So good air circulation and exchange is very important. The RH needs more care with LED also, and good temperature control is never a bad thing. One of my current struggles is having a good RH with LED, while still able to scrub the air for smell. I have 3 top tier filters in a row, and still I'm failing. Even drying the air the final stage gets. Though how clean your air must be is different for each of us.

I'm going to skip the controller, as my airflow is balanced for the filters. Any less and RH would be too high, and if I needed more I would have to increase my scrubbers. So It can't be changing speed from my manually dialed in speed.


I can't get near 5-10$ and will pay $40 to save myself a lot more than a day designing, ordering, building and ironing out such a thing. It has bluetooth modules and an app. It's way beyond what anyone could make in a week. Custom housings. It's endless.
I often look at things people have (cars mostly) and think it's way beyond their means. Something they couldn't make in 10 lifetimes. So all things considered, I will spend a day flipping burgers and go home with one. Feeling it's a good deal.

 

[fonzee]

I bought a dehu with EC motor. Unfortunately the manufacturer was dumb and didn't know what they wee selling when I asked the right questions. So upon receiving it, I found it was the fan motor that was EC. Also a total waste of the tech as it just has two speeds. Installed for noise, not control.

Big aircon plants sometimes use screw compressors and offer control that will hunt the perfect speed. Though from 100% you can't drop as low as 50% I don't think. Winter demand may still see these big plants cycling on/off. Any refrigeration system that does cycle off, can't restart straight away. This latest dehu waits half an hour. A lot can happen in half hour.


A normal fan can't be reduced to 3% without a vvvf inverter drive. They use mains frequency to send them round at 3000/3600rpm if a two pole design. You can slow them, but that 50/60Hz rotation continues. You can't have such a wide gap between the magnetic and physical rotation speed. 3% is so slow you could count it. It wouldn't be synchronous.

These days we should be ditching the old AC fans and going EC. They have controls just like LED drivers. You can use the variable resistor or 0-10v or PWM.

I'm not sure if the output from a C100 PID can be used for cooling. Perhaps the temp sensor signal could be inverted to trick it. The parts list would still be manageable, but it's becoming a project. I have one here to dim my lights if the extract can't cope, but as yet... it's one of them projects.

Edit: Yes, it will do cooling.
Ever heard the pitch of a bathroom extractor change, as the wind blow outside. When you set the speed of an EC fan, that is exactly what you are setting. Not power. It's tach. So if the wind tries to slow it, it will ramp up the power to keep at the same rpm. This can be very useful in a trickle situation.

To be honest, I'm looking for the cheaper options, and a DC motor isn't usually cheaper. I get the options it comes with, but I don't really dig into this level of complexity.
RH as a way to control the vent instead of Temperature is interesting, I will need to try it.

The AC Infinity with the Controller 67 or others they make is the ticket. You need to beg borrow or steal one. Just get one bigger than what you think you need.

You can set temp or humidity to trigger their fan to come on and off or ramp up and down.

I'm running the humidifier this week in flower to drive the humidity up because the fan is running due to high temp. So it cycles for humidity instead of temp and the VDP is perfect. If it just cycled for temp the humidity drops like a rock.

Looks very cool, their 76 controller looks nicer to me, but I rather use machines as analog as possible. I don't want to use my smartphone to control grow gear.
At the end, the balance in my rooms is achieved by getting the right equipment to work at almost full capacity which will get the best climate I can in the room. I don't like oversized equipment and computers where a simple dimmer and thermostat \ hygrostat will do.

That is pretty snazzy for $50. I'm surprised just how complex it seems. Too complex sounding for me, but it had me looking at the site index for something simpler. I'm feeling a bit simpler right now though. I couldn't even see the item I was looking at. I'm generally down on the brand as the fans are weak ass things that won't deal with my filtering. I could chop up that controller though, and put it on a centrifugal. If it were not trying so hard.

I'm really quite tempted for that easy RH based fan speed, with minimum speed setting

The $40 unc529 looks more the ticket for me (I'm getting through it quicker than me internet will post)

Yeh, seems like a great deal. I would have ordered it if it wasn't in the US...

Still, I think that having the thermostat right inside the vent should give better accuracy than a computer with a thermostat outside the vent.
And all those cables annoy me. For the price to save the research and crafty work - its a grab.

Given the electronics to make said controller are like 5 to 10 usd when you mass produce it, not such a great price in my opinion.

A 1000 usd cell phone also cost a few dollars when mass produced.
Vent dimmers with a dial cost more than that.

At what tent size do I need to start getting serious about fans?

At the size you care about enough to look for steady climate. The smaller the grow size, the harder it is to maintain steady.
It seemed to me like an easy, cheap fix that could help. It also saves electricity.

 

[fonzee]

The insides of a Prima Klima PK125-TC

Could help myself but open it haha

 

[exploziv]

Looks like good design!

 

[fonzee]

Looks like good design!

Yes, but judging by the soldering of the wires to the circuit, my guess is that it wasnt made in the same factory. Maybe this circuit could be bought as a stock circuit for something from china?

 

[exploziv]

I am sure it could be, but not at that quality unless you ready to invest into teaching them and ironing out the kinks untill you get your product. Itwould be basically a copy of this or something similar. With cheaper parts, less features and half ass quality. Like all knockoffs are. They have the cheap manufacturing, but not the bright minds or practice to get to quality products on their own most times.