Status of the Michigan Market

[stasis]

The boutique grower is in danger, just like it was in CA for Me. Yes, we need to always adapt - but there are limits. Now, the chorus is "I usually pay $____ for it.."

Unless selling ozs to patients, it is not worthwhile to even consider selling a P to most Dispos.

It is almost unfortunate that for a couple years I was able to get around 4-5K for my OG K in CA from Dispos. And 36 for the other strains.
Life was good for a couple years. If that never happened, I would never have it as a model..! haha

What do we care, about what they pay for crap...? if our hybrid plant, or Haze-derivative takes 74 or more days to REALLY finish....? MONEY...!!!!! BILLS, etc..

And what if it is High Times centerfold quality..? Where is the incentive to continue to grow anything but early pulled, high yielding commercial wannabe OG, or cookies crosses filled with Paclos...?

Talking to a silver-tongued Dispensary owner yesterday - I realize all figures are doctored in His favor - but what He claimed to pay for a P was worse than CA ever got, for the grower. "There are lots of desperate growers out there willing to sell for that price..." He said. Been there, seen that. Most people moved away from NorCal at that point. Or got big in order to compete. His words are the LAST thing I want to hear.

I asked of the quality of the cheapo buds, and He said "Beautiful." I take it with a grain of salt, cause He is a Pure BSer, and always trying to get me to lower my price, cause His 2k Pot is nowhere as good as Mine. He won;t admit it's worth the extra dollars, but see his eyes, when I give him some samples... WIDE EYED AND HAPPY, reaching for the pipe immediately..@).

MI MJ program sucks balls, & is going the way of the Dodo, regarding personal cannabis freedom. I do not want to be forced to NOT grow, and to smoke their Health Canada quality crap. Snyder signed a contract with those very people THREE YEARS AGO...

Here comes Big Business. I love how the Liquor distributors nationwide are bucking to be the SOLE distributors of cannabis for the small price of 300 a p to transport anywhere. (extraction lab, dispensary, wherever). Yet, for decades, they paid lobbyists and bribes to the tune of millions AGAINST CANNABIS>. It is titanically ironic and blatantly corrupt. PURE MICHIGAN. SNYDER AND SCHUTTE STILL LARGE AND IN CHARGE..

I've changed my model as of today. I will avoid as much as possible being squeezed by all sides from now on. Tired of this scene. THE GROWER TAKES MOST OF THE RISK, FINANCIALLY, LEGALLY AND OTHERWISE. Every state penalizes the grower, and rewards the Middleman.

Apparently, It is once again - BLACK MARKET or NO MARKET. And even that is not very profitable anymore.

My goal is to turn the tables a little bit. I don;t think I can overhaul the whole Supply & Demand paradigm in total...haha

 

[growingcrazy]

Why aren't we opening a caregiver owned collective based system in Michigan? I would love to have a pre-paid share based system for my patients. I think we have enough farms in the state to supply all the patients without the middleman. Basically like a farmer owned co-op market would operate. 20 or so markets across the state..

Also would like to hit on the pricing for conversations sake..

You mention getting 4-5k for a lb of OG. I can't justify requesting a donation with that kind of price tag. 280/oz puts you right at 4500/lb, the end user shouldn't pay that amount so how can we make that as growers? I am plenty happy getting 2400/lb if it is going directly to a patient and not a dispensary jar.

If you relate our system to how a normal farmer type situation would work, our system is flawed. If the farmer markets directly to the consumer, they get the largest returns but over a longer time span. If the farmer markets directly to a wholesaler, they get less return per unit but more potentially in one lump sum. At 5000/lb we are milking the wholesaler and the end consumer.

Not knocking you, just making conversation. I am happy you could knock out some 5k lbs to take care of you and your family while it lasted.

 

[stasis]

That was over a decade ago in NorCal. No of course, that;s changed. The OG I had was really coveted. A major seed company tried (and succeeded) in ripping off my mother room for 8 cuts of it. The only ripoff in 12 years, I invited them to my house. lEARNED LESSON.

My reason for consternation is this is exactly what happened in CA. And it became necessary to take drastic measures. Leave.

It is always necessary to adapt in any venture, especially Cannabizness. Now, is the time for brainstorming.

I always dream of a boutique market, then the Cheapskates prove me wrong.

EDIT: 6 hours later, I am sitting here extremely disenchanted with the whole movement - With the fearful neighbors, who look thru their blinds surreptitiously. With the STIGMA - of something that 55%+ of the people consume..!!!! I simply am tired of Hydro Store owners and their BS promises, and lies. THe manipulation in an industry that is peopled by drug dealers, aka "Puppetmasters." who use people, while utilizing a silver tongue and lying left and right.

The grower is ALWAYS the one who pays the price, and puts out the most $ up front. Takes the most risk, all in all the most important person in the process. And it matters not at all.

I should change my name from Stasis to Disenchanted Boutique Grower (who produces good yields, but is forced to keep the circle sooooo tight so as to preclude normal human interaction, cause people are POS's in this Cannabizness.)


2400 or less a P....? For that genetic and quality..? ECSD x Chemdog x Strawberry Diesel (Strawberry Cough x ECSD).... I'll do anything rather than accept that. Because, as we all know, once ya accept 24, it ain;t ever going back to 28... Or even 25.

 

[stasis]

I love my home state for many reasons. THe MMJ shitstem is NOT one of them.


BILL SCHUTTE (Attorney Gen) IS B.S. And head of the Dow Corning cartel.

 

[Shmavis]

I love my home state for many reasons. THe MMJ shitstem is NOT one of them.

Did you happen to see this?

http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2015/11/michigan_cops_seek_changes_to.html

Regulations, regulations, and; did I mention: regulations. Goodbye caregiver. (Be sure to follow the “proposed legislation” link.)

And of course Schutte aspires to be the Governor. God help us.

... 280/oz puts you right at...

So $300 an oz is too much these days? Hmmm...

 

[growingcrazy]

So $300 an oz is too much these days? Hmmm...

When that $300 might be your entire weekly income, it is. We are trying to put cannabis on the same pedestal as crude oil and diamonds, and it is neither.

If we take away all the non-sense and worries related to growing cannabis, what makes us growing it so special? Anybody can grow it, maybe not to the extent of some here, but still very realistic for anyone. You always hear talk about how cannabis should be 100% legal like any other plant on the planet. That is great, I am all for it. Just don't complain when the price is comparable to your 99 cent per lb tomato.

When we signed up as caregivers we signed up to take on the same risks as any small start up business. We incur all risks, security,monetary, whatever it may be. Just like any other business.

When it comes down to it are you trying to run a legit medical cannabis supply center or are you selling extra veggies from the garden? You can't get the income potential of the supply center on regulations pertaining to a boutique garden. You can't have the cake and eat it too.

My goal with growing has always been to grow my own at a low enough cost that I never run out. Why shouldn't this be my business model for my patients?

I know that if I had to pay $300 for every oz I smoke, I couldn't afford it. Can you?

 

[usda101]

Am i wrong to think its hard to compete with the people making the rules ? Good points on both sides , and makes me question my reasons for doing what i do . I grew up in the Garden with my Mom (RIP) and under the Hood with my Old Man . When i started growing for cheap smoke and $ i was a natural and loved it , Mechanical skills helped a lot . Then did some Care giving for a few friends with cancer and seeing the relief they got i was Hooked . Then last year my wife was Diagnosed with Cancer which i wont go into at this moment . legalization being in its infancy here OZs still go $250-$300 Black market on Par with Dispo , im cool with $225 for mine Friends Pay nothing if i can afford it . That being said the Politicians , Big Biz and Law enforcement will take over as much as possible . I hate the direction things are moving but i don't rely on it for primary income so i Fear none of these Forces . But sooo many Trailblazers in the community and to have Big Biz screw it all up Rubs me the wrong way . Sorry for going Off Topic a tad .

 

[TerpeneTom]

I adore the structure of Diesel, so alluring.

Nice pictures Thanks for sharing.

 

[Shmavis]

This will come off as me being a dick, which is not my intention, but oh well here goes:

I know that if I had to pay $300 for every oz I smoke, I couldn't afford it. Can you?

Yes, I could. In fact, I did so for many years prior to growing my own; this very price in the early-to-mid-nineties. Product dictates price. Why should an influx of subpar product drive down the price of above-par product? The answer is that it doesn’t. As with most product, the consumer base will determine whether the product is worthy of the price.

We are trying to put cannabis on the same pedestal as crude oil and diamonds, and it is neither.

We are?

If we take away all the non-sense and worries related to growing cannabis, what makes us growing it so special? Anybody can grow it, maybe not to the extent of some here, but still very realistic for anyone. You always hear talk about how cannabis should be 100% legal like any other plant on the planet. That is great, I am all for it. Just don't complain when the price is comparable to your 99 cent per lb tomato.

The nonsense and worries exist. We are not in a position to take them away. You’re speaking of hypotheticals — current reality works better. And the current reality is that we’re not nearly to the point of wiping out the nonsense and worries (see, Schutte).

When we signed up as caregivers we signed up to take on the same risks as any small start up business. We incur all risks, security,monetary, whatever it may be. Just like any other business.

Do you really mean to make this claim? In logic this is referred to as false equivalence. It is a logical fallacy. This is not, “just like any other business.”

When it comes down to it are you trying to run a legit medical cannabis supply center or are you selling extra veggies from the garden? You can't get the income potential of the supply center on regulations pertaining to a boutique garden. You can't have the cake and eat it too.

My goal with growing has always been to grow my own at a low enough cost that I never run out. Why shouldn't this be my business model for my patients?

I think that you’ve conflated two separate points. Stasis is speaking specifically to the selling of overages to dispensaries. You are speaking of direct sales to the patient. Moreover, he is speaking of wares that are not of the normal fare.

It could be that what is asked of patients is not the same as what is asked of dispensaries. (some folks operate in this manner; I know of at least one for sure).

But the greater point (at least mine) is that you soon may no longer have the privilege of being a caregiver...


Edit:

Oh yeah, pretty flowers, stasis!

 

[DemonTrich]

Now adays all these "new" potential patients I meet and talk to the 1st damn thing out of their mouth is "how many ounces per month do I get for free"? I tell them nothing, free baggies is about it. I do give away certain medicinal items with every purchase. But wtf is wrong with this younger generation always wanting everyrhing for free? Fuck them, fuck the system, fuck michigan. Oregan, cali, Colorado are looking more and more promising every day.

 

[growingcrazy]

This will come off as me being a dick, which is not my intention, but oh well here goes:

Yes, I could. In fact, I did so for many years prior to growing my own; this very price in the early-to-mid-nineties. Product dictates price. Why should an influx of subpar product drive down the price of above-par product? The answer is that it doesn’t. As with most product, the consumer base will determine whether the product is worthy of the price.

I agree that product dictates the price. It just seems that the base price of our product has been inflated due to prohibition. What is the profit margin on selling at high-end prices? This isn't like the auto industry where "better" quality parts and gadgets dictate a higher price. One grower could have $7 per gram into production costs, and another have $2. If the end product was identical, the grower with the higher cost goes under. Shitty for them, better for all other parties.

We are?

I can't think of anything else that has a price as over inflated as those two to compare to, so it is what I used. Value is a consumer perception.

The nonsense and worries exist. We are not in a position to take them away. You’re speaking of hypotheticals — current reality works better. And the current reality is that we’re not nearly to the point of wiping out the nonsense and worries (see, Schutte).

I agree, that was hypothetical. I was coming from the side of after legalization, I shouldn't be. Although, if your operating within the law, those worries and non-sense shouldn't exist.
We all know how to stop the idiots in charge, I.e. Schutte.

Do you really mean to make this claim? In logic this is referred to as false equivalence. It is a logical fallacy. This is not, “just like any other business.”

Why isn't it? I have more risk of failure and loss in my "real" business than I do in being a caregiver. This again comes down to operating as a caregiver within the law or using the law to operate illegally by using dispensaries.

This is also the place where most caregivers can't make up ground.. most "real" business' repair and rebuild equipment. We in the grow industry just toss a new piece of equipment in. I can rebuild an 8" fan for $3.25, and this impacts the bottom dollar.


I think that you’ve conflated two separate points. Stasis is speaking specifically to the selling of overages to dispensaries. You are speaking of direct sales to the patient. Moreover, he is speaking of wares that are not of the normal fare.

Dispensaries are illegal, until further law changes. No further comment..

I agree, those buds look delicious. Depending on your circle, that may be what everything looks like. A lot has change in 10 years here, killer weed is everywhere.

It could be that what is asked of patients is not the same as what is asked of dispensaries. (some folks operate in this manner; I know of at least one for sure).

If you are in the situation where you are using a dispensary, I hope you are getting 5k a lb out of them. (I am friends with 2 Disp. owners so I am not knocking them, they have more balls than all of us...) They are marking up prices to cover the risks. I get it. What will they do with pricing once the risks diminish or outright goes away? My buddies always snicker and say "buy another house".

But the greater point (at least mine) is that you soon may no longer have the privilege of being a caregiver...

This is why we all need to come together over the cause and not the profits.

Edit:

Oh yeah, pretty flowers, stasis!

+1!

Really enjoy talking about this stuff, thanks Shmavis! You don't sound like a dick at all, I hope I didn't come across as one either!

(I have a shit load going on at the moment so if something doesn't quite make sense, I am sorry! Satori is trying to straighten me out.)

Peace
GC

 

[growingcrazy]

Now adays all these "new" potential patients I meet and talk to the 1st damn thing out of their mouth is "how many ounces per month do I get for free"? I tell them nothing, free baggies is about it. I do give away certain medicinal items with every purchase. But wtf is wrong with this younger generation always wanting everyrhing for free? Fuck them, fuck the system, fuck michigan. Oregan, cali, Colorado are looking more and more promising every day.

Yes, it is ridiculous. It literally is the first thing stated by many would be patients. What is the root cause? Caregivers that give "patients" free meds so they can grow out 72 plants and dump overages on dispensaries. Fact.

Michigan is not the place to be if you want to make a living on cannabis.

Unless the old saying stands true "make more or spend less".

 

[MileHighGlass]

It's kind of funny watching people in other States staring regulations right in the face. "Legal" cannabis does not have room for caregivers. They would suck away the money that the dispensaries could make.

If you've ever grown "illegally" then you will be prepared for what's on the horizon. We will all be criminals once again, unless you want to grow for a dispensary.

Welcome to "legal" cannabis.

 

[TheMan13]

I love my home state for many reasons. THe MMJ shitstem is NOT one of them.


BILL SCHUTTE (Attorney Gen) IS B.S. And head of the Dow Corning cartel.

I think you're misdirecting your anger brother, regardless that Schuette and Snyder are complicit state level tools atm. The problem is the political pull, both left and right, of the LEO, Prosecutor and Corrections Associations/Unions across this nation as they've built and defended their empire for the past half century under the guise of the "Drug War". Then again, as their tools like Obama, Holder and now Lynch uphold mmj as a Schedule I Controlled Substance today; that's the linchpin I believe the People need to concern themselves with ...

2017 and beyond will bring plenty of new politicians, but no change will come with the same old establishment monikers (D or R) IMHO, state nor federal. The term for this two party corruption is regulatory capture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

 

[TheMan13]

45th year protesting prohibition here in Michigan.

 

[stasis]

thanks guys for chiming in.

 

[TheMan13]

[YOUTUBEIF]mwKDWNYOTW0[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[stasis]

BS is the enemy for sure. He told Local authorities that ALL dispensaries are Illegal, because it is not allowed to sell to anyone who is not one of your 5 patients.

Gave Carte Blanche to raid any and all of them with the AGs office's backing. And so, RAID they did, all over the state in the last month.

He is not the only enemy. But .....


Fact is, I have never NOT been black market. Patients are too absurd to supply enough dependable income. They demand more for less, as time passes, With little or no understanding of the process of growing, and its; pitfalls.
If the Caregiver doesn;t comply in total, sometimes become informal informers out of spite.

This is Michigan, the anger capital of the USA> (at least the bottom half of the LP)
after all.

Road Rage land, and gun culture hotspot (millions of carried handguns, in the hands of uptight, untrained potential assailants). Institutionalized Racism deeply ingrained - North Texas basically.

Screw Schutte. King of Dow Corning Poisoner of millions. I;d pay dearly to be allowed to be alone in a room (or an alley) with Him. You;d not recognize the pulp that I would leave behind.

 

[TheMan13]

Sorry about that brother, I didn't mean to yank your chain here. We agree it's all about discretion (Gov't Exec, LEO, Prosecutor and Judge) in the end. I obviously believe Schuette and all involved (local to federal) should hang for whatever occurred last month here statewide leaving thousands of patients without access to medicine. My point was it's about the wrongful actions (or inaction) of the man (or woman), not their identity, beliefs or politics that should be of concern to us. The means simply do not justify the ends in this criminal prohibition and they never have ...

 

[tleaf jr.]

I would be in favor for a grower regulated pricing system, we really should regulate our prices before the govt steps the second foot in to this thing. I would hate to see cannanbis go the way of other crops being sold for dirt cheap and cheap quality, but as with anything if the bulk demand is there the bulk product will be sold and not always quality considered. Dispesaries aren't in charge of the prices and the sooner we realize this the better. we can't look at eachother as compitetion anymore because they're trying to play the usual monopoly stategy.