Sea of Green Reality

[dank.frank]

Not really the point at all. I'm suggesting a hybrid that has the growth rates and stretch of a sativa with the flower qualities of an indica.

My FAM95 cut run 79 days to hit full maturity. GMO runs 12wks. Neither of those are what would generally be considered a "sativa", regardless of the flower time. ECSD runs 12wks and is considered more sativa dominant but still not a sativa as many view a sativa.

Just saying.



dank.Frank

 

[flylowgethigh]

I am running a sativa and made a sea of sativa with nets. That was the point. I can stuff a 4x4 with a full canopy using two plants in 10 gallon bags each. A ,LT less work than 4 pots per ft2. But I love the look of a good SOG.

This is the last time:

Diary - Run #6 Haze NL 87 under Mars 4800e - with control!

Looks good from here, getting there. :tiphat::good:

www.icmag.com

This is this time:

Diary - Run #7: ICMag O-Haze

That looks like a super efficient use of light over the most canopy.

www.icmag.com

 

[moose eater]

I stuck to super-cropping, as SOG meant unacceptable plant counts at a time that mattered a WHOLE lot.

I did pretty well with 9-16 larger plants in four 4'x4' boxes, and avoided the Fed threshhold all I could.

Self-preservation and knowing your opposition's rule book are good/healthy things to keep in mind.

Glad those days are pretty much gone for me. Too old for that sort of adrenaline..

At the most I run 20 at a time now (not counting mothers and clones). Often not that many.

 

[dank.frank]

I am running a sativa and made a sea of sativa with nets. That was the point. I can stuff a 4x4 with a full canopy using two plants in 10 gallon bags each. A ,LT less work than 4 pots per ft2. But I love the look of a good SOG.

This is the last time:

Diary - Run #6 Haze NL 87 under Mars 4800e - with control!

Looks good from here, getting there. :tiphat::good:

www.icmag.com

This is this time:

Diary - Run #7: ICMag O-Haze

That looks like a super efficient use of light over the most canopy.

www.icmag.com

Soooo, a SCROG.

I get it from a general stand point, but, when specifics are asked for - SOG - at one time, had a set of parameters to be followed or else it became some thing else.

Personally, I don't like all the clone work - however, I'm really impatient when it comes to vegging things in to properly fill a screen too, no matter what the genetics are.

Many ways to skin a cat. A true SOG without any veg time and flipping straight from clone is one of the best way to pull 5 crop cycles in a year vs only 4.

A lot of people stopped that method once various form of quasi-legal (REGULATION) allowed for a given number of plants and people decided growing a monster was easier than running the risk. This turned into people expanding their gardens and room numbers. Why run 1 space, when you now need 1k's to veg plants to get them to size fast enough. Then you needed another room of 1'ks to flower in. There are perks and disadvantages to every methodology of production.

For a lot of people, SOG allowed a perpetual harvest, were you could put a certain number of plants into flower once a week or every other week and keep a consistent supply. When plants were only short enough that light penetration wasn't affected by a taller canopy that prevented or blocked light reaching new clones getting put into flower next to plants already in cycle.



dank.Frank

 

[flylowgethigh]

Yeah, Scrog. Seems to work in taming the stretchy NLD plants.

Did FUCKEM die with legalization?

 

[dank.frank]

Nope. It's still a thing. Some of the best human beings I have ever had the honor of knowing.



dank.Frank

 

[kingape]

When I take a clone, it usally has at least 2-3 internodes on it. Once a clone is rooted, I like to place it in a 1 quart or .96l pot. I'll let roots fill out, then I place into a half gallon. From half gallon to 3 or 5 gallon or flower, depending on how long the plant will flower. If over 10 weeks I use a 5 gallon.

That not ideal for SOG, but for just growing regular bush style, top a couple times, etc.

For organic soil SOG, you have to use containers that are deep, yet narrow enough to pack 4 per square foot. The best container I ever found for such was called a "rose bucket". It was LITTLE BIT BIGGER than desired, "7.6 x 7.6" which resulted in a slightly lower plant density, but it was also 1.7 gallons - which was ideal for taking a clone, vegged into 1 quart and then placing in the rose bucket and flipped immediately. I would completely remove any secondary branches from bottom internodes that were were longer than 1.5". Secondary growth under 1" was allowed to remain for flower production and cola formation.

Keep in mind, I use water only organic soil, so soil volume was much more important to me. A standard 1/2 gallon or 6" pot was not enough media to sustain the plants through out flower properly without needed additional feedings at some point during the cycle. It's much harder playing catch up in an organic system than it is running salts.

Look for 12-14 wk sativa mothers, crossed to 8-9wk indica fathers. You want a plant that will stretch at least 2.5-3x it's original height when flipped. Meaning, if you clone is 8" in flower, you want her to be at least 20-24" when done stretching. That means, you are looking for a plant with sativa vigor - that isn't going to only give whispy flowers, but will benefit for the indica infusion and want to make larger central coals.

Check out TopDawg Seeds and look at their haze lines crossed to some chem or hash plant lines.

MOST OF THE PLANTS - you are looking for in a SOG type setting, will actually flower 11-12 wks. It's not going to be your early 8-9wk plants that perform with this type of sativa infused vigor.

A 12wk plant is really sort of ideal, as it allows you to rotate on a 3wk or 4wk metric to keep a perpetual harvest system.

Keep in mind, one of the key components of running a SOG system, was the idea you didn't have to veg...at all. It was intended to take a rooted clone, directly into flower, without veg. The concept was based around quicker turn around and saving expenses by not having to maintain a secondary spot to veg plants before flower.

You STILL need a proper veg room though, and actually, when you grasp the full concept, to take 16-32-64 cuts to fill a table with clones, you need LARGE mothers or multiple smaller mothers of the same plant.

2' x 2' = 16 plants
3' x 3' = 32 plants
4' x 4' = 64 plants

Keep in mind, you should maintain a 6" perimeter between the container and the wall, to allow for air flow. So the sizes above are for plant space only...actual planting areas. The 4' x 4' would be the footprint for a 5' x 5' tent / room, or 25 square foot.

Hope this helps you out a bit more.



dank.Frank

Thanks Frank.

That's a sea of good information right there

I am growing them in coco with DTW so the pot container size won't be much of an issue.
The plan is to take clones at around 5-6 inches and then flower them in a 6x6 square pot.

Regarding the mother plants, cloning IMO is the key to success of a SOG op.

I have 8 mother plants in a 4x4 that I have topped extensively and created a beautiful manifold which give me around 16 clones per plant every 2-3 weeks
I am looking at TopDawg or Karma for the project, thank you for pointing in the direction!

I don't understand the 6 inch gap on the table for airflow.

I'll be growing on the 8x4 ebb and flow tables and there's sufficient ventilation from the wall fans and the overhead ceiling fan

 

[dank.frank]

Generally, you leave a slight gap between the container and the walls. If you are running a table - the lip on the table is usually sufficient to create that gap. Plants that end up resting on the wall tend to be the first place that dew or moisture gets trapped and that will be a vector for powdery mildew. If you have enough airflow and if your air intakes are all filtered and if you keep a proper IPM pre-flower and your SOP ensures you only wear fresh, clean clothing into the garden, you should be okay.

Increased plant density in SOG creates other potential problems when super dense single cola indicas are used and the plants end up always touching each other, again, trapping moisture.

It's just a precautionary measure, so when growing traditional bush style you don't end up with full colas, resting in direct contact with a wall surface.



dank.Frank

 

[alpo]

i just tried 36 plants per 4x4 so you can veg properly. i was gonna flip after 3 nodes so I would get a good 5-7 colas per plant was the plan.

 

[kingape]

Generally, you leave a slight gap between the container and the walls. If you are running a table - the lip on the table is usually sufficient to create that gap. Plants that end up resting on the wall tend to be the first place that dew or moisture gets trapped and that will be a vector for powdery mildew. If you have enough airflow and if your air intakes are all filtered and if you keep a proper IPM pre-flower and your SOP ensures you only wear fresh, clean clothing into the garden, you should be okay.

Increased plant density in SOG creates other potential problems when super dense single cola indicas are used and the plants end up always touching each other, again, trapping moisture.

It's just a precautionary measure, so when growing traditional bush style you don't end up with full colas, resting in direct contact with a wall surface.



dank.Frank

Thanks!

That does make sense

 

[kingape]

i just tried 36 plants per 4x4 so you can veg properly. i was gonna flip after 3 nodes so I would get a good 5-7 colas per plant was the plan.

How did it go?

 

[alpo]

i think i put too many watts in my bedroom, i threw them away after 2 weeks.

 

[bs0]

So, I have been at this for some time now and have grown all sorts of different styles. NExt on the list is a true sea of green - 64 plants per 4x4 table, hydroton ebb and flow. I will be running a Shipwreck cutting from Oregon that is great for large fat top colas. Is it really realistic to get a 14 gram plant in this style? Do I skirt the plants before putting them in or let them go a week or so and then skirt them? I hear lots of he said she said, but I am curious if anyone has any personal experience.

Cheers

Personal perspective - Sea of Green is not good for most plants.
Downsides -

• Small veg plants = small flowered plants
• Pathogens spread like wildfire through these
• Must run mono-crops or faster/stretchier strains take over and kill off the slower
• Small clones can be shocked by the transplant/light intensity change, see point 3
• Time savings from neglecting veg time are insignificant
• Indica dom plants in this style will underproduce

Upsides -

• Save 1-2 weeks of veg time
• Works amazing with super-stretchy sativa dominants

I speak from experience with this, I tried to do sea of green a number of times because I didn't want to spend the time vegging the plants... and every single time it was underwhelming. Two big plants will outproduce 64 baby plants almost every single time. And making 64 clones per rack truly sucks balls...

Remember: big roots = big plants. big plants = big buds. Big buds = happiness. When we grow a plant we aren't growing leaves, we are growing root systems. Small plants have small roots. You won't ever average 14 grams like this unless you perfect it with the perfect clone, and even then you could be outproducing that with 4 good sized plants.

Addendum - you can get all the benefits of SOG with bigger plants and a screen. Train the plants as they stretch along the screen and run branches horizontal. Eventually all the side branches will orient upwards and make the canopy. I think I have a picture from a recent harvest in my profile where that's exactly what I did and the yields have been consistently good for me this way.

 

[kuku32]

i prefer soil for sea of green cause at dwc plants dont make a single cola even a week of veg will create bushy plants unless you flip it 12/12 from the first day of sprout or rooted clone and train

 

[rustlessbiscuit]

Seriously? No one does SOG anymore?

Hey

 

[rustlessbiscuit]

Personal perspective - Sea of Green is not good for most plants.
Downsides -

• Small veg plants = small flowered plants
• Pathogens spread like wildfire through these
• Must run mono-crops or faster/stretchier strains take over and kill off the slower
• Small clones can be shocked by the transplant/light intensity change, see point 3
• Time savings from neglecting veg time are insignificant
• Indica dom plants in this style will underproduce

Upsides -

• Save 1-2 weeks of veg time
• Works amazing with super-stretchy sativa dominants

I speak from experience with this, I tried to do sea of green a number of times because I didn't want to spend the time vegging the plants... and every single time it was underwhelming. Two big plants will outproduce 64 baby plants almost every single time. And making 64 clones per rack truly sucks balls...

Remember: big roots = big plants. big plants = big buds. Big buds = happiness. When we grow a plant we aren't growing leaves, we are growing root systems. Small plants have small roots. You won't ever average 14 grams like this unless you perfect it with the perfect clone, and even then you could be outproducing that with 4 good sized plants.

Addendum - you can get all the benefits of SOG with bigger plants and a screen. Train the plants as they stretch along the screen and run branches horizontal. Eventually all the side branches will orient upwards and make the canopy. I think I have a picture from a recent harvest in my profile where that's exactly what I did and the yields have been consistently good for me this way.

420*7 in 25sqft = 2940grams ÷ 25sqft = 117.6g/SqFt

Sativa's are the worse
Whole point of a sog is a high-density compact grow, and you are suggesting sativa's that grow taller? Lmao

Seeds are better for apical dominance.

You run short dense colas, vertical.


Indica doms/hybrid mono

Blue leaning spectrums

Adequate airflow on canopy, between colas.


Addendum - looks cool as fuck when executed properly.


Proper environment and root zone management
10-30day veg
70 flower

 

[kingape]

Hey

Wow!

That looks beautiful!

Any more details? How do you water it? Strain? Density?

 

[rustlessbiscuit]

Wow!

That looks beautiful!

Any more details? How do you water it? Strain? Density?

Hand, my strain, 3-14gs each, first attempt, listed above what will make a possible killer run.

210 regs > 105 females

85f 75rh till last week of Flower.

Then drop temps/rh

 

[collacolla]

Hey

Wow, that's astounding
How do you manually water the plants on the back? or do you manually flood the whole "tray"?

 

[Hiddenjems]

Also when people realized a little veg and a screen do the same thing withou worrin about fed time then it's popularity went down.

Plant count was never a thing legally where I grow. When cannabis was illegal here everything was computed by weight. The legal fight was getting the stalks and rootballs thrown out.