The black haze was definitely not from some seeds being sold in '07 i know that much... By that time a lot of the guys had started switching over to the sour down here.
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~PIFF~ A.K.A. Uptown Haze/Frankies/Church. Preserving a Heritage...
- Thread starter ARTofMAKINGfire
- Start date
The black haze was definitely not from some seeds being sold in '07 i know that much... By that time a lot of the guys had started switching over to the sour down here.
How's the high? Everyone seems caught up on the smells?
Frankincense has two different smells as well. One scent raw and one scent when burnt.
The scent from a catholic church is Frankincense and Myrrh together...
Anyways. I'm more interested in the high and not the way a room smells after a smoke?
Does it have that tragic come-down at the end?
Frankincense has two different smells as well. One scent raw and one scent when burnt.
The scent from a catholic church is Frankincense and Myrrh together...
Anyways. I'm more interested in the high and not the way a room smells after a smoke?
Does it have that tragic come-down at the end?
I guess thats dependant on what or whos cut you have? It seems that over the years folks have been finding the black haze to be more of a couch lock type high and dirty persay if that even makes sense?
The cut i know is more of a racy high with a clean come down so i guess ymmv
Very interesting hypothesis keep me informed pls
Nobody's Nursery
Active member
"Phenotype-A (a personal favourite) displays strong Sativa characteristics in its growth and a sublime mix of running Sativa and fat-calyxed Skunk in its bud formation.
The buds of pheno-A take the form of long strings of inflated, highly resinous calyxes, very much like the Jack Herer pictured in the Sensi catalogue.
The strings of calyxes wrap around each other, snaking upwards, usually covering the top 50% of stem and branches by the end of flowering. Buds have a chunky, irregular form, with top colas ending in multi-crowned peaks.
Measure for measure, this is arguably the most potent of Jack Herer’s phenotypes, imparting an extremely powerful stone and high with immediate effect. The thick resin coating often gives it a sharp, almost menthol flavour.
If potency is the main aim, growers should select this phenotype, which can be reliably identified by its oversized calyxes.
Pheno-A requires the full 70 days to finish and can multiply its height by a factor of five or more - so it should be flowered very small (10-15cm), unless a large plant is desired.
Indoors, this pheno produces limited outward branching and can be a very efficient producer at a final height of 80-180cm.
Phenotype-B is the most Indica-influenced. It is very compact when compared to other Jack Herer phenotypes, though significantly taller than a pure Indica.
It adds about 100-200% to its vegetated height in flowering and finishes in under 60 days.
Growers who have a particular interest in speed, weight and compact growth pattern should select Jack Herer’s pheno-B as a mother.
Buds mainly cluster around nodes, but ‘run’ enough to cover a large portion of the (shorter) stem and branches. Flower formation is dense and regular, forming angular knots with blunt peaks.
Upper branches often combine with the main stem to forma large central cola. Calyxes are large, but not oversized, pistils are relatively short;.
Indoors, this pheno produces most efficiently at a height of 50-100cm.
Pheno-B has a strong Indica effect, which may be the first noticeable result of consumption , but it does not overpower the cerebral Sativa effect which should creep up soon afterwards.
Pheno-B usually has a distinct aroma – citrus-sweet with piney undertones.
Phenotype-C is also heavily Sativa-influenced, and some growers might consider it to be the same as pheno-A, with which it shares many growing characteristics such as flowering time (70 days) and height gain (300%+ of vegetated height).
There are a few differences that allow C to be considered a separate phenotype. It produces swollen calyxes, but they are significantly smaller than those of pheno-A.
These calyxes also grow in strings –outwards as well as upwards – and produce long pairs of pistils, which give the buds of pheno-C a spiky appearance.
The budding pattern of pheno-C has plenty of Sativa ‘run’ to it, and the fact that the buds also develop outwards means that C will generally produce the largest buds the four phenotypes. This extra size may not greatly increase the overall yield, as these flower clusters are a little less dense than the others.
All in all, pheno-C most resembles NL#5xHaze in formation, flavour and effect. It has voluminous, fuzzy buds with a sparkling coat of resin, a delicate aroma that’s spicy-sweet, acerbic yet almost creamy, and the most energetic ‘up’ high of Jack Herer’s variations.
Phenotype-D (another personal favourite) might be regarded by commercial growers as the least desirable in terms of its growth pattern. Like an Indica it produces dense knots of bud of at each node and like a Sativa it gains quite a lot of height during flowering. This often results in gaps between nodes below the top colas.
The main advantage of this phenotype is that it produces truly spectacular amounts of resin – enough to give the buds an obvious silver colouring after the mid-point of flowering. In terms of weight of bud/plant matter vs weight of resin (as extracted with the water-hash method), examples of pheno-D are some of the most resinous plants we’ve ever seen.
Despite its lower yield, many growers will choose to reserve a corner of their space for the growing of Jack Herer’s pheno-D purely for its resin content.
Pheno-D tends to produce very limited branching and clones can be grown close together without interfering with each other. Indoors, it is most efficient when kept to a size of 30-80cm. Flowering time is comparatively fast - usually 60 days or less.
Jack Herer’s phenotype-D has a sharp, rich flavour, similar to fresh hashish. It’s generally the pheno with the most obvious physical ‘stone’ effect."
The buds of pheno-A take the form of long strings of inflated, highly resinous calyxes, very much like the Jack Herer pictured in the Sensi catalogue.
The strings of calyxes wrap around each other, snaking upwards, usually covering the top 50% of stem and branches by the end of flowering. Buds have a chunky, irregular form, with top colas ending in multi-crowned peaks.
Measure for measure, this is arguably the most potent of Jack Herer’s phenotypes, imparting an extremely powerful stone and high with immediate effect. The thick resin coating often gives it a sharp, almost menthol flavour.
If potency is the main aim, growers should select this phenotype, which can be reliably identified by its oversized calyxes.
Pheno-A requires the full 70 days to finish and can multiply its height by a factor of five or more - so it should be flowered very small (10-15cm), unless a large plant is desired.
Indoors, this pheno produces limited outward branching and can be a very efficient producer at a final height of 80-180cm.
Phenotype-B is the most Indica-influenced. It is very compact when compared to other Jack Herer phenotypes, though significantly taller than a pure Indica.
It adds about 100-200% to its vegetated height in flowering and finishes in under 60 days.
Growers who have a particular interest in speed, weight and compact growth pattern should select Jack Herer’s pheno-B as a mother.
Buds mainly cluster around nodes, but ‘run’ enough to cover a large portion of the (shorter) stem and branches. Flower formation is dense and regular, forming angular knots with blunt peaks.
Upper branches often combine with the main stem to forma large central cola. Calyxes are large, but not oversized, pistils are relatively short;.
Indoors, this pheno produces most efficiently at a height of 50-100cm.
Pheno-B has a strong Indica effect, which may be the first noticeable result of consumption , but it does not overpower the cerebral Sativa effect which should creep up soon afterwards.
Pheno-B usually has a distinct aroma – citrus-sweet with piney undertones.
Phenotype-C is also heavily Sativa-influenced, and some growers might consider it to be the same as pheno-A, with which it shares many growing characteristics such as flowering time (70 days) and height gain (300%+ of vegetated height).
There are a few differences that allow C to be considered a separate phenotype. It produces swollen calyxes, but they are significantly smaller than those of pheno-A.
These calyxes also grow in strings –outwards as well as upwards – and produce long pairs of pistils, which give the buds of pheno-C a spiky appearance.
The budding pattern of pheno-C has plenty of Sativa ‘run’ to it, and the fact that the buds also develop outwards means that C will generally produce the largest buds the four phenotypes. This extra size may not greatly increase the overall yield, as these flower clusters are a little less dense than the others.
All in all, pheno-C most resembles NL#5xHaze in formation, flavour and effect. It has voluminous, fuzzy buds with a sparkling coat of resin, a delicate aroma that’s spicy-sweet, acerbic yet almost creamy, and the most energetic ‘up’ high of Jack Herer’s variations.
Phenotype-D (another personal favourite) might be regarded by commercial growers as the least desirable in terms of its growth pattern. Like an Indica it produces dense knots of bud of at each node and like a Sativa it gains quite a lot of height during flowering. This often results in gaps between nodes below the top colas.
The main advantage of this phenotype is that it produces truly spectacular amounts of resin – enough to give the buds an obvious silver colouring after the mid-point of flowering. In terms of weight of bud/plant matter vs weight of resin (as extracted with the water-hash method), examples of pheno-D are some of the most resinous plants we’ve ever seen.
Despite its lower yield, many growers will choose to reserve a corner of their space for the growing of Jack Herer’s pheno-D purely for its resin content.
Pheno-D tends to produce very limited branching and clones can be grown close together without interfering with each other. Indoors, it is most efficient when kept to a size of 30-80cm. Flowering time is comparatively fast - usually 60 days or less.
Jack Herer’s phenotype-D has a sharp, rich flavour, similar to fresh hashish. It’s generally the pheno with the most obvious physical ‘stone’ effect."
Nevil
Breeder
Either Sensi directors authorised the release of the plant produced from a mating I had made prior to ending up in jail in 1990, or a person in a position of trust made private arrangements. The mating was NL5xHzC X SK1xHzC.
Sensi won a cup with this cutting. It was called "Jack Herer". The J.H. line of seeds had this plant as a mother.
Green House also won with this plant at the Cups. It was called Super Silver Haze. As GH never had this cutting, who knows what they are calling SSH.
In the '90s, a variety known as Diesel was making a name for itself. When I smoked it I knew instantly that this was exactly the same plant and they had a cutting. The early Diesel line of seeds would also have used this plant as a mother.
All 3 lines were made with different fathers at least and this was 20 years ago. One would assume that successive generations would all go in their own unique directions, presumably giving rise to any distinct differences today. The names have remained the same and all 3 lines gained their credibility from the exceptional qualities of the original cutting NL5HzC x SK1HzC.
Breeder
If the original cup winner was NL5xhazeC/skunkxhazeC and MNS sells NL5xhazeC/skunkxhazeC seeds then who is selling the real deal?
The area for improvement was not the NL5xHz mother, SB already has cuttings of the best ever produced. The improvement would be in the SKxHz father. Later Skunk versions that were crossed with the Haze were far superior to the Skunk Hazes of the '80s.
As I have said before, inbreeding Haze especially to the same Haze ancestor leads to a greater incidence of the cat piss pheno. The Diesel or fuel like smells are an intermediate stage. NH also has more fuel type offspring than the 5Hz, but not as many as a plant inbred to HzC. NL5HzA had darker flavours than NL5HzC, but I wouldn't call it diesel.
N.
Breeder
Either Sensi directors authorised the release of the plant produced from a mating I had made prior to ending up in jail in 1990, or a person in a position of trust made private arrangements. The mating was NL5xHzC X SK1xHzC.
Sensi won a cup with this cutting. It was called "Jack Herer". The J.H. line of seeds had this plant as a mother.
Green House also won with this plant at the Cups. It was called Super Silver Haze. As GH never had this cutting, who knows what they are calling SSH.
In the '90s, a variety known as Diesel was making a name for itself. When I smoked it I knew instantly that this was exactly the same plant and they had a cutting. The early Diesel line of seeds would also have used this plant as a mother.
All 3 lines were made with different fathers at least and this was 20 years ago. One would assume that successive generations would all go in their own unique directions, presumably giving rise to any distinct differences today. The names have remained the same and all 3 lines gained their credibility from the exceptional qualities of the original cutting NL5HzC x SK1HzC.
Breeder
If the original cup winner was NL5xhazeC/skunkxhazeC and MNS sells NL5xhazeC/skunkxhazeC seeds then who is selling the real deal?
The area for improvement was not the NL5xHz mother, SB already has cuttings of the best ever produced. The improvement would be in the SKxHz father. Later Skunk versions that were crossed with the Haze were far superior to the Skunk Hazes of the '80s.
As I have said before, inbreeding Haze especially to the same Haze ancestor leads to a greater incidence of the cat piss pheno. The Diesel or fuel like smells are an intermediate stage. NH also has more fuel type offspring than the 5Hz, but not as many as a plant inbred to HzC. NL5HzA had darker flavours than NL5HzC, but I wouldn't call it diesel.
N.
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goingrey
Well-known member
Harlem Dreams - Cuban Black Haze x Santa Cruz Blue Dream(r) - and it's crosses have produced some straight fire. Really takes the old flavor profile and modernized the look and resin field density.
It really has the "piff" nose but add a different layer of complexity to the high. I plan to sort some Harlem Dreams S1 this coming year. Don't knock it till you try it.
Thanks for posting up those old posts, Raco. HazeC offspring not Haze A offspring. Sort of goes to my point.
dank.Frank
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Nobody's Nursery
Active member
Harlem Dreams - Cuban Black Haze x Santa Cruz Blue Dream(r) - and it's crosses have produced some straight fire. Really takes the old flavor profile and modernized the look and resin field density.
It really has the "piff" nose but add a different layer of complexity to the high. I plan to sort some Harlem Dreams S1 this coming year. Don't knock it till you try it.
Thanks for posting up those old posts, Raco. HazeC offspring not Haze A offspring. Sort of goes to my point.
dank.Frank
Not going down another rabbit hole for no reason. Find them yourself or go buy some like everyone else...or grow something from the line.
Otherwise, be hater and and remain in the dark without any actual experience.
dank.Frank
Otherwise, be hater and and remain in the dark without any actual experience.
dank.Frank
Why’s the piff always gotta turn into a dick measuring contest or a pissing match?
I know piffCon does entry testing and piffcoast farms does not judge so it’s not biased… all you with jack that say it’s piff, just get your entries ready cause I believe it’s in March!
Sounds like a plan. OJD is offering up his “Piff/church/Frankie’s” right now, so what was supposed to be unobtainable voodoo, can be had in seed and grown. I am a student of the skinny leaf, seeking superior smells in these exotic strains. Let’s grow them side by side and maybe make some smelly dope.
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
There was actually nl5hazeC available in 88 aswell as 88g13hazeC and a countles whole amount of haze hybrids still many people haven't heard of....the south african sssc had was also nevils from 88 south africa xhzC aswell as Hawaiian hazeC, shanti babas nl5hazeC is worked from nevils 88 nl5hzC seeds aswell as his a/c (a5/skhzC) male also comes from 87/88 seed nevil had made. Coot actually had the 88nl5hzC seeds and made f2 in 1991 and put some seeds away....
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TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Thats a different black haze....some of the older nyc piff hazes probably arnt around in their original formI'd love to know where the 'Cuban Black Haze' originally came from as the first I ever heard about it was being offered for sale from Queijo(the crook)/hothouseflowers/Breeder's Choice around 2007.
Now Queijo the crook was famous for never sending seeds out and ripping other's genetics (OT1) and Tom Hill sent him a lot of his seed stock also.
The old, banned Breeder's Choice forum is archived in the Library forum, lots of good info on how 'dirty' the Haze legacy had become, even that far back.
Nothing to do with piff, but You might actually be surprised on how many people have sativa genetics being used in the usa coming from bco, bodi, kagu, snowhigh and many more. Even mac1 one of the lines used in it came from the uk, probably via bco.
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I sent a safe addy to OJD already. Definitely looking forward to his work.
I never said it was unobtainable. I said since A5 has been released and shared, the expression has begun popping up in a lot of seed lots. That was sorta of my whole point in posting what I have shared.
I've experienced the original. I've experienced modern seed lots. It's showing up again.
I sprouted a Bandaid Haze #7 x A5(r) from Karma G - that had the craziest smell. I kept it alive. Shortly there after I met Piff Coast and was able smoke on several different historical cuts that represent the example. I realized instantly what I had sprouted from BH7 x A5(r) - was a "piff" type expression.
I'm not claiming to be some authority on anything. I have literally only been exploring the "piff" expressions for about 2.5 years. The difference is, I happened to be very fortunate to have REAL exposure via the people I am blessed to know.
I nerd out on things - I pursue and I seek and I dig for information in every place I can. I did so with the "piff" expressions of Haze and have learned what it is and what it isn't.
I have merely been sharing my experience and my enjoyment of something - I didn't think I'd like. I'm a medical consumer. I still prefer a heavy knock down indica stupor. But now I have learned to enjoy something else as well and it has opened new avenues to explore and experience the last couple years - and it's been an IMMENSE amount of fun. I like to learn. I like to experience.
If my excitement and passion for such, has been misconstrued as any form of "authority" - hopefully this corrects that misconception. Was never my intent to do anything other than share my new found enjoyment of an era I missed out on - and have been fortunate enough to step back in time and experience, in an authentic manner, the same way it was then. That's time machine special.
How often does anyone ever get such a chance...
dank.Frank
I never said it was unobtainable. I said since A5 has been released and shared, the expression has begun popping up in a lot of seed lots. That was sorta of my whole point in posting what I have shared.
I've experienced the original. I've experienced modern seed lots. It's showing up again.
I sprouted a Bandaid Haze #7 x A5(r) from Karma G - that had the craziest smell. I kept it alive. Shortly there after I met Piff Coast and was able smoke on several different historical cuts that represent the example. I realized instantly what I had sprouted from BH7 x A5(r) - was a "piff" type expression.
I'm not claiming to be some authority on anything. I have literally only been exploring the "piff" expressions for about 2.5 years. The difference is, I happened to be very fortunate to have REAL exposure via the people I am blessed to know.
I nerd out on things - I pursue and I seek and I dig for information in every place I can. I did so with the "piff" expressions of Haze and have learned what it is and what it isn't.
I have merely been sharing my experience and my enjoyment of something - I didn't think I'd like. I'm a medical consumer. I still prefer a heavy knock down indica stupor. But now I have learned to enjoy something else as well and it has opened new avenues to explore and experience the last couple years - and it's been an IMMENSE amount of fun. I like to learn. I like to experience.
If my excitement and passion for such, has been misconstrued as any form of "authority" - hopefully this corrects that misconception. Was never my intent to do anything other than share my new found enjoyment of an era I missed out on - and have been fortunate enough to step back in time and experience, in an authentic manner, the same way it was then. That's time machine special.
How often does anyone ever get such a chance...
dank.Frank
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
When big herb described the old piffs from nyc that ones that dont seem to be around no more to nevil himself...nevil said he was describing hazeC.....personally I think what had gone over to nyc are a few hybrids that were probably mostly hazeC and some combinations with hazeA and hazeC in....the original first generation hazeC hybrids were just as good as hazeA...actually they were probably beter as the scent and taste was probably stronger and more diverse and the high of a probably slightly higher quality....hazeC or its hybrids would double up better than hazeA doubling too...
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
You'll like what ojd has as alot of it comes from the original 97 nevils haze as a base....bandaid is tame and calm in comparison
