B
British_Bulldog
Che cosa sono le pene per essere interferito con una piccola coltura personale, in Italia del nord: 2-4 piante, per favore?
Grazie mille
Grazie mille
frio
Member
although recently there have been a few lucky exceptions, the law says that with anything above 5 grams (this is not accurate but it's the rule of thumb generally used by those who enforce the law) you are automatically prosecuted as a DEALER and face YEARS..
although, as i stated before, we just had a few lucky trials, there should be NO WAY to be prosecuted for "personal use" if you grow.
if they find your plants they weigh THE WHOLE PLANT and not just the flowers, so you could be in jail for "two pounds of marijuana" when you actually only have three vegging males..
the only good advice to reduce the risk of rotting in jail for YEARS is to grow few TREES as opposed to many small plants (ex: sea of green) because the number of plants seems to play a strangely important role in the trial.
drugs laws here are VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY lame.
the advantage of growing here is that they don't actively hunt growers. i mean: if they know you grow they're going to bust you of course, but they're not looking for random growers with thermal cameras (or god know what other gimmick) like in many other countries.
- don't let ANY smell come out of your apartment or house
- don't tell ANYONE you grow
that way you should be fairly safe..
although, as i stated before, we just had a few lucky trials, there should be NO WAY to be prosecuted for "personal use" if you grow.
if they find your plants they weigh THE WHOLE PLANT and not just the flowers, so you could be in jail for "two pounds of marijuana" when you actually only have three vegging males..
the only good advice to reduce the risk of rotting in jail for YEARS is to grow few TREES as opposed to many small plants (ex: sea of green) because the number of plants seems to play a strangely important role in the trial.
drugs laws here are VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY lame.
the advantage of growing here is that they don't actively hunt growers. i mean: if they know you grow they're going to bust you of course, but they're not looking for random growers with thermal cameras (or god know what other gimmick) like in many other countries.
- don't let ANY smell come out of your apartment or house
- don't tell ANYONE you grow
that way you should be fairly safe..
B
British_Bulldog
Ciao frio e grazie,
Especially for the reply in English. I am trying to improve my Italian, but appreciate the English as it's easier to understand at the moment, lol
It seems there are a lot of smokers here, but I suspect the amount of growers is smaller than in the UK, particularly since most of the fumo that seems to be available is Moroccan hash (mainly low grade), and good buds are rare. I've seen and smelled some ok outdoor around, but I am yet to smell any good quality herbs like I've been used to in the UK & there are lots of homegrown buds available in the UK.
The amount of plants I'm talking about is only 2-4 small plants, and in the UK for this you would just get a "slap on the wrists" - i.e. warned not to do it again, and maybe a small fine.
So you think if the police caught a small grower with 2-4 small plants, the grower could actually go to jail for this?
It's encouraging to know that due to some recent cases, small time growers haven't been prosecuted like this, but I'm just wondering about the possibilities. Regarding these recent cases, do you have any internet links I can look at please? As they sound very interesting.
Does it also depend on the area of Italy, as in the UK, where we call it a "postcode lottery", in that the punishments vary from area to area, with no national clear policy.
It's usually in the areas with a high crime rate that the courts go lightly on small time personal growers.
Grazie molto,
Peace
Especially for the reply in English. I am trying to improve my Italian, but appreciate the English as it's easier to understand at the moment, lol
It seems there are a lot of smokers here, but I suspect the amount of growers is smaller than in the UK, particularly since most of the fumo that seems to be available is Moroccan hash (mainly low grade), and good buds are rare. I've seen and smelled some ok outdoor around, but I am yet to smell any good quality herbs like I've been used to in the UK & there are lots of homegrown buds available in the UK.
The amount of plants I'm talking about is only 2-4 small plants, and in the UK for this you would just get a "slap on the wrists" - i.e. warned not to do it again, and maybe a small fine.
So you think if the police caught a small grower with 2-4 small plants, the grower could actually go to jail for this?
It's encouraging to know that due to some recent cases, small time growers haven't been prosecuted like this, but I'm just wondering about the possibilities. Regarding these recent cases, do you have any internet links I can look at please? As they sound very interesting.
Does it also depend on the area of Italy, as in the UK, where we call it a "postcode lottery", in that the punishments vary from area to area, with no national clear policy.
It's usually in the areas with a high crime rate that the courts go lightly on small time personal growers.
Grazie molto,
Peace
frio
Member
British_Bulldog said:
MOST DEFINITELY! and after that you would get kicked out of the country! sorry.. this country's politicians sadly often face matters with a strictly rigid political point of view instead of just researching a REAL way to solve problems. and what's worse is that the only media coverage cannabis gets in italy is often sensationalistic SAD LIES, but i hear it's a problem in the u.k. too, lately..
to answer your second question, prosecution in italy does NOT vary in any way from area to area.
for the recent cases and for any information about drugs legislation in italy i advise you antiproibizionisti.it , in my opinion one of the most serious organizations in italy for these matters.
B
British_Bulldog
Ciao & grazie frio,
Wow, that does seem very harsh for someone self-medicating themselves and not harming anyone else.
It's true the media in the UK sensationalise cannabis, and fortunately I read yesterday on Google news that in light of the recent debate over re-classifying back to Class B, instead of keeping it at Class C, they have dropped the issue for now, due to lack of evidence from 'experts'.
With what you've said about the strong possibility of jail for even a very small grow, I now understand why there are less growers in Italy!
It's shocking that things are so strict here, especially with the HUGE amount of smokers and also tolerance from the public. I mean I go for a walk in nature places regularly and there's always people smoking herb and hash, and no one bothers about it - i.e. people from all generations just seem to tolerate it around here.
Thanks for the area info too, and I'll check out the site you've suggested - thanks a lot.
Grazie mille,
Peace
Wow, that does seem very harsh for someone self-medicating themselves and not harming anyone else.
It's true the media in the UK sensationalise cannabis, and fortunately I read yesterday on Google news that in light of the recent debate over re-classifying back to Class B, instead of keeping it at Class C, they have dropped the issue for now, due to lack of evidence from 'experts'.
With what you've said about the strong possibility of jail for even a very small grow, I now understand why there are less growers in Italy!
It's shocking that things are so strict here, especially with the HUGE amount of smokers and also tolerance from the public. I mean I go for a walk in nature places regularly and there's always people smoking herb and hash, and no one bothers about it - i.e. people from all generations just seem to tolerate it around here.
Thanks for the area info too, and I'll check out the site you've suggested - thanks a lot.
Grazie mille,
Peace
frio
Member
it's strange, isn't it? smoking in public, expecially in big towns, is totally accepted and an ENORMOUS amount of people do it.. yet we have the strictest laws!!!!!!!!
it all comes down to rotten politics.. the people in charge right now (the left) want to reduce the penalties for soft drugs and that is a reason why many people voted for them (it was in the agenda) and elected them.. yet forces within them (such as Clemente Mastella, a dangerous jerk) oppose this decision and make (current minister for drug policies) Paolo Ferrero's work extremely hard from the very beginning. of course the right (who oppose each of the left's decisions on just ANY matter, whether right or wrong) work 24/7 to jump at any chance to bash soft drugs because they support the current law (which was made during the last government, berlusconi's) and they support the prejudice-driven opinions of their electors, who generally don't even want to debate the matter.
getting caught with marijuana, coke or even HEROIN is the SAME THING for the italian law right now, and it's never been so insane..
it all comes down to rotten politics.. the people in charge right now (the left) want to reduce the penalties for soft drugs and that is a reason why many people voted for them (it was in the agenda) and elected them.. yet forces within them (such as Clemente Mastella, a dangerous jerk) oppose this decision and make (current minister for drug policies) Paolo Ferrero's work extremely hard from the very beginning. of course the right (who oppose each of the left's decisions on just ANY matter, whether right or wrong) work 24/7 to jump at any chance to bash soft drugs because they support the current law (which was made during the last government, berlusconi's) and they support the prejudice-driven opinions of their electors, who generally don't even want to debate the matter.
getting caught with marijuana, coke or even HEROIN is the SAME THING for the italian law right now, and it's never been so insane..
B
British_Bulldog
Ciao frio,
Thanks - It certainly does seem crazy, the current situation in Italy.
I heard recently about the change in the law and that you're allowed upto 500mg THC on you for personal consumption, and I guess that equates to about 5 grams of low grade Moroccan hash, which is probably where you got the 5 gram limit from. I'm not sure how much that would equate to, but if you imagine a gram of good bud has 20% THC, for a very good sample, then 2.5 grams would be around 500mg.
Moroccan hash seems to dominate the scene here, and 10 Euro a gram seems to be the going rate.
Do the prices vary across Italy, like is it cheaper in the south compared to the north?
These Moroccan hashes, at least the ones I've tried here, are a bad smoke, i.e. irritate the lungs, are contaminated and poor quality & burn to a black ash, but if you eat some with a glass of milk, it gives an ok high for a few hours & that's what I've been doing.
I've had very good Moroccan hash in the Netherlands: Honey Blonde, Warm Ears, Zero-Zero, etc, so I know what good Moroccan is by the way, and I'm not classing all Moroccan as bad, just what I've tried in Italy so far.
One dealer said he had better stuff at home, so maybe I'll ask him to get that if I see him again.
However I do like good buds and was wondering about the cultivation laws, so thanks for helping out with some useful info.
Politics gone mad I say!
As the general population doesn't mind about smoking, or would mind about small personal grows, much the same as the people of Britain, but until the laws are revised to reflect reality, then it seems things will treated unnecessarily and in a crazy unrealistic way
Have any of the growers here in Italy on icmag been busted and, if so, what were their penalties?
Grazie mille
Thanks - It certainly does seem crazy, the current situation in Italy.
I heard recently about the change in the law and that you're allowed upto 500mg THC on you for personal consumption, and I guess that equates to about 5 grams of low grade Moroccan hash, which is probably where you got the 5 gram limit from. I'm not sure how much that would equate to, but if you imagine a gram of good bud has 20% THC, for a very good sample, then 2.5 grams would be around 500mg.
Moroccan hash seems to dominate the scene here, and 10 Euro a gram seems to be the going rate.
Do the prices vary across Italy, like is it cheaper in the south compared to the north?
These Moroccan hashes, at least the ones I've tried here, are a bad smoke, i.e. irritate the lungs, are contaminated and poor quality & burn to a black ash, but if you eat some with a glass of milk, it gives an ok high for a few hours & that's what I've been doing.
I've had very good Moroccan hash in the Netherlands: Honey Blonde, Warm Ears, Zero-Zero, etc, so I know what good Moroccan is by the way, and I'm not classing all Moroccan as bad, just what I've tried in Italy so far.
One dealer said he had better stuff at home, so maybe I'll ask him to get that if I see him again.
However I do like good buds and was wondering about the cultivation laws, so thanks for helping out with some useful info.
Politics gone mad I say!
As the general population doesn't mind about smoking, or would mind about small personal grows, much the same as the people of Britain, but until the laws are revised to reflect reality, then it seems things will treated unnecessarily and in a crazy unrealistic way
Have any of the growers here in Italy on icmag been busted and, if so, what were their penalties?
Grazie mille
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frio
Member
actually YOU are sold low grade moroccan for 10 euros per gram.. i know exactly what you are talking about (sadly!) but most people i know (including myself) refuse to buy that and even if they do they refuse to pay more than 4 or 5 euros per gram, and only in times of BIG craving..
i just got some VERY fresh moroccan (doesn't burn your throat at all, it's quite pure and it breaks up when you handle it) for 7 euros per gram and i considered it such a bad deal that i don't even speak to the guy who hooked me up with that anymore!!
good DANK bud is extremely rare but decent indoor bud (that tastes boring but does the job, being suitably high in cannabinoids) is not impossible to find for locals, and THAT is worth 10 euros for us.
street dealers sell crap everywhere so only the uneducated who don't know better usually buy from them, but i understand making good connections is very very hard as everybody is paranoid, and rightly so. Home dealers don't like strangers being brought to their place so their customers buy bud for their friends themselves rather then introducing their friends to the dealer so that they don't get him upset. Each time we find a GOOD dealer it feels like finding a treasure so we don't want to blow it bringing people there..
prices vary A LOT from north to south but so does the quality. i've seen outdoor weed sold for very cheap in the south but it mostly tasted like crap. there's crap weed in the north too for sure but crappy outdoor is more common in the south, in my experience.
of course home growers instead get good bud everywhere!
the best places to score in my experience are milano and firenze for weed and milano and bologna for hash. i know a street dealer who sells fresh indian charas for 30 euros per gram in milano and i swear it's better than what you get in amsterdam for that price.. they have chillum culture in milano!
i can't speak for roma because i never bought anything there, and venezia is completely DRY. puglia seems like the place to get the cheapest hash (i saw 1 euro per gram hash) but it's exactly the laced moroccan crap that you talk about (only that you pay 10 times more only because you're not a local! italian people suck!)
but then again, to the eyes of southern dealers i am a foreigner just like you (i was born in the north) so maybe that's why i never get any good weed there..
se qualcuno vuole correggermi lo faccia senza esitazioni, io posso parlare solo per la MIA esperienza!
i just got some VERY fresh moroccan (doesn't burn your throat at all, it's quite pure and it breaks up when you handle it) for 7 euros per gram and i considered it such a bad deal that i don't even speak to the guy who hooked me up with that anymore!!
good DANK bud is extremely rare but decent indoor bud (that tastes boring but does the job, being suitably high in cannabinoids) is not impossible to find for locals, and THAT is worth 10 euros for us.
street dealers sell crap everywhere so only the uneducated who don't know better usually buy from them, but i understand making good connections is very very hard as everybody is paranoid, and rightly so. Home dealers don't like strangers being brought to their place so their customers buy bud for their friends themselves rather then introducing their friends to the dealer so that they don't get him upset. Each time we find a GOOD dealer it feels like finding a treasure so we don't want to blow it bringing people there..
prices vary A LOT from north to south but so does the quality. i've seen outdoor weed sold for very cheap in the south but it mostly tasted like crap. there's crap weed in the north too for sure but crappy outdoor is more common in the south, in my experience.
of course home growers instead get good bud everywhere!
the best places to score in my experience are milano and firenze for weed and milano and bologna for hash. i know a street dealer who sells fresh indian charas for 30 euros per gram in milano and i swear it's better than what you get in amsterdam for that price.. they have chillum culture in milano!
i can't speak for roma because i never bought anything there, and venezia is completely DRY. puglia seems like the place to get the cheapest hash (i saw 1 euro per gram hash) but it's exactly the laced moroccan crap that you talk about (only that you pay 10 times more only because you're not a local! italian people suck!)
but then again, to the eyes of southern dealers i am a foreigner just like you (i was born in the north) so maybe that's why i never get any good weed there..
se qualcuno vuole correggermi lo faccia senza esitazioni, io posso parlare solo per la MIA esperienza!
B
British_Bulldog
Ciao frio,
Thanks for the info -
The price I was going off was printed in the local paper, and when I repeatedly say to dealers, people who know dealers and also locals that 10 Euro a gram is too high, and I don't want to pay it, or otherwise increase the quality, they're like "that's what it costs around here", and instead of lowering the price they basically come off with a take-it-or-leave-it mentality.
I have turned some of them down, and walked away, expecting them to say "hey man, ok XX Euro instead" like any other dealer around Europe I've bought from, but they don't. They just say ok then.
To me, it's been either very bad business practice, and they're very tight/hard business minded and very good actors, or that really was the going rate! It's also not because they thought I was a fly-by tourist either, as I told them I was a resident!
You're obviously a local and speaking the language fluently helps a lot I'm sure.
All the locals seem to smoke either low grade Moroccan (not as low as the street dealers, but still low, as I can smell it), and when I got some recently the dealer let me burn a corner or two of a block he had, which they were all smoking in a group.
The other people I've smelled smoking have some sort of generic herb as you say - with a skunky smell.
I've not smelled any decent fruity or hashy buds, it all seems to be this skunky type stuff.
Over in Lugano in Switzerland I've had ok outdoor and more low grade hash (black hash this time), but the deal/amount on the outdoor was quite poor. The better buds were in Zurich and Biel, i.e. good quality/dank.
The Indian hash in Milano sounds very good, although 30 Euro does seem a lot for a gram, more than gold, lol, and I also find Amsterdam prices very expensive nowadays. The most I've paid is 20 Euro a gram and that was ice hash there. I'm sure the Indian hash is very good though, and it's interesting you mention chillum culture in Milano
Good buds in the UK cost around 5 Euro a gram, well for me and others with good hook ups, if I wanted it, and about 7 Euro per gram on average for small deals of upto 3.5g, but I was growing and so had as much as I could smoke, plus all the homemade highgrade hash I could smoke too.
Going from all that good smoke to this situation is tough!
Thanks for the info -
The price I was going off was printed in the local paper, and when I repeatedly say to dealers, people who know dealers and also locals that 10 Euro a gram is too high, and I don't want to pay it, or otherwise increase the quality, they're like "that's what it costs around here", and instead of lowering the price they basically come off with a take-it-or-leave-it mentality.
I have turned some of them down, and walked away, expecting them to say "hey man, ok XX Euro instead" like any other dealer around Europe I've bought from, but they don't. They just say ok then.
To me, it's been either very bad business practice, and they're very tight/hard business minded and very good actors, or that really was the going rate! It's also not because they thought I was a fly-by tourist either, as I told them I was a resident!
You're obviously a local and speaking the language fluently helps a lot I'm sure.
All the locals seem to smoke either low grade Moroccan (not as low as the street dealers, but still low, as I can smell it), and when I got some recently the dealer let me burn a corner or two of a block he had, which they were all smoking in a group.
The other people I've smelled smoking have some sort of generic herb as you say - with a skunky smell.
I've not smelled any decent fruity or hashy buds, it all seems to be this skunky type stuff.
Over in Lugano in Switzerland I've had ok outdoor and more low grade hash (black hash this time), but the deal/amount on the outdoor was quite poor. The better buds were in Zurich and Biel, i.e. good quality/dank.
The Indian hash in Milano sounds very good, although 30 Euro does seem a lot for a gram, more than gold, lol, and I also find Amsterdam prices very expensive nowadays. The most I've paid is 20 Euro a gram and that was ice hash there. I'm sure the Indian hash is very good though, and it's interesting you mention chillum culture in Milano
Good buds in the UK cost around 5 Euro a gram, well for me and others with good hook ups, if I wanted it, and about 7 Euro per gram on average for small deals of upto 3.5g, but I was growing and so had as much as I could smoke, plus all the homemade highgrade hash I could smoke too.
Going from all that good smoke to this situation is tough!
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frio
Member
being cannabis-educated AND in italy totally sucks if you're not growing.. i totally feel your pain!!! and as for the dealers, you're right and there's no negotiation at all.. if you don't live in a big town there's good chances that your dealers payed an unreasonable price themselves! that's actually the going price in many towns.. reason: ignorance. most italians don't know any better..
good luck scoring some decent bud (or with your next grow!!), cheers
good luck scoring some decent bud (or with your next grow!!), cheers
B
British_Bulldog
Hi and thanks for the info frio,
Just to confirm, if someone has a totally clean record, has never even been arrested before, and grows a couple of plants in Italy, if they get caught there is a real chance of jail time?
In the UK, having a whole house full of plants, weed and hash, and getting caught as a first offence, you wouldn't go to prison (if you said it was all personal, didn't have scales and acted like you were sorry/realised the error of your ways) - probably get a suspended sentence instead.
And also, do you know of other icmag members in Italy who've been caught and what happened to them?
Grazie mille,
Peace
Just to confirm, if someone has a totally clean record, has never even been arrested before, and grows a couple of plants in Italy, if they get caught there is a real chance of jail time?
In the UK, having a whole house full of plants, weed and hash, and getting caught as a first offence, you wouldn't go to prison (if you said it was all personal, didn't have scales and acted like you were sorry/realised the error of your ways) - probably get a suspended sentence instead.
And also, do you know of other icmag members in Italy who've been caught and what happened to them?
Grazie mille,
Peace
B
British_Bulldog
Hi Wamen & nice to meet you too 
Just to clarify, I didn't mean busted online as a result of posting here - I meant have any other members been busted for another reason (the usual reasons like someone they know grassing on them - telling the police, a smell leak, etc), and if they've not that's good news & I hope it stays that way. I just wondered what their punishment was by the courts to have some more info to go on.
Grazie e ciao
Just to clarify, I didn't mean busted online as a result of posting here - I meant have any other members been busted for another reason (the usual reasons like someone they know grassing on them - telling the police, a smell leak, etc), and if they've not that's good news & I hope it stays that way. I just wondered what their punishment was by the courts to have some more info to go on.
Grazie e ciao
