Not drinking and droopy

[methias]

Hi all,
Its been a while.
I recently switched to Hydro.
2 Gallon buckets with air stone and air pump. I put the ladies in 8" baskets and small clay beads.
All was going great until 3 days ago when I saw my cheese was not drinking her usual 2 quarts a day.
My VOG which is the same age and 2 feet over to the right is doing great. Both girls are treated the same but the cheese is drooping and needs something.
I filled out the questions below.

help please.


HYDROPONICS/Aero Ponics/Coco/Soiless/

How long has this problem been going on? 3 Days
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents) Same tent for years
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on…) Hydroponic in 2 gallon buckets with air pump and air stone running 24 / 7
What STRAIN are you growing? Cheese and VOG The VOG is fine but the cheese suddenly started drooping. Both get the same nutes but cheese stopped drinking 2 days ago
What is the age of your plants? Clones from mom. 60 + days
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now? 2 months. Buckets with 8 inch Basket with small clay beads
How tall are the plants? 20-24 inches
What PHASE are the plants in? (flower) 12/12 for one month
What Technique are you using? Tree
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) clay beads
What is the Water temperature? 75F +/- 2
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? Off white in cheese, white in VOG
What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) General hydroponics, FloraGro Flora Micro & Floral Bloom
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? I mix 3 gallons with 3 tsp FG, 6tsp FM & 9tsp FB I adjust the PH to 5.8.
How often are you feeding? (If using soiless) I top off the 2 gallon buckets daily and change out the water in the buckets every 2-3 weeks.
How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless) every top off
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? 1 week prior to going 12/12. 33 days ago
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) all was good till one month into flower
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using No meter
What is the pH of the “Tank"? Have not checked
How often are you testing your pH/PPM/EC/TDS? Not
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equipment? PH meter is good
When was your last watering? Daily
What is your water temps? 75 +/- 2 F
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional) changed out buckets 1 week ago
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients? 2 weeks give or take
What size bulb are you using? LEDs
How old is the bulbs you are using? 3 months
What is the distance to the canopy?8-10 inches
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)?65%
What is the canopy temperature? 72.1F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) 68-79
What is the current Air Flow? 2 computer fans no idea CFM
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? Exhaust fan 24/7 but switches to low speed at temp when temp goes below 75 F
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? 2 computer fans yes
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Hard
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Tap
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap? No clue but never had issues when soil but
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives? No clue
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? Sprayed during veg before transferring to flower tent as preventative measure over 5 weeks ago.
Are plant's infected with pest’s. No pests, no chems

Again 2 ladies in tent side by side You can see the healthy VOG off to the right doing great and drinking well.


a closer look at my cheese top.

and her bottom



Thank you in advance for any assistance offered.
Stay safe kids

 

[Creeperpark]

Your roots are damaged from not getting enough air in the root zone.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Your roots are damaged from not getting enough air in the root zone.

Indeed, definitely a root and oxygen problem. Plants look wilted when they need water, and they also wilt when they need oxygen.

Check the base of the stem for rot and also tug on the roots a bit. Healthy roots should be tough to break. Though not likely, no bugs in among the roots?

Edit: Ummm you have 69F+ temps and that is a big no no for any 'Roots In' hydro setup. You can expect your other plants to also have issues if the temp is not dropped and more air pumped through.

 

[methias]

I added a second bubbler to both ladies. What can I do to cool the water in the buckets? It's in my garage, and summer is coming,,,
The ph in the bucket is 5.8, checked last night.
Can or should I wash the roots or introduce anything to the mixture to assist recovery?
Again many thanks,
I'm scrambling to try and save her.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

It is your water temps which are the main issue.

Window banger a/c unit to help cool the garage a tad, but more importantly cool air stream to hang air pumps. Pumping cooler air will cool the water quickly. Keep an eye on temps as it can get too low. I always shoot for 68F.

Frozen water bottles sucks, but can help short term.

 

[f-e]

Hydrogen Peroxide will instantly raise oxygen levels and start killing many bacteria that cause rot

Can you circulate the water between the buckets (yes you can) and maybe have that hose coiled up within an old fridge? That might be cheap, quiet and direct. You could look at inline UV sterilisers. I suspect the bubbler type is a hydrogen peroxide replacement, but I'm as yet unsure. People do pop up using them though, so I'm not alone with these thoughts

I wouldn't get involved with dwc myself

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Can't believe I forgot about hydrogen peroxide, I used to get 35% from beauty supply outlets. (DWC for 15+ years) Careful, since too much will also damage roots.

IME... Do NOT recirculate, unless you want all the hassles which come with RDWC. Cool the water and oxygenate it using the fewest bacterial breeding points possible. (no hoses and connections like RDWC uses)

 

[RockinRobot]

Won't even venture to give advice to someone that doesn't bother to check Ph/Ec. Oh and since it says you have no meter how did you calibrate it as you state several lines down from where you stated no meter

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Whatever, the key to healthy roots in DWC is water temps between 65F and 69F, and plenty of dissolved oxygen in it. The rest is environment and a balanced low feed.

Sbould you be correct, real growers will still stumble on this thread occasionally.

 

[f-e]

Can't believe I forgot about hydrogen peroxide, I used to get 35% from beauty supply outlets. (DWC for 15+ years) Careful, since too much will also damage roots.

IME... Do NOT recirculate, unless you want all the hassles which come with RDWC. Cool the water and oxygenate it using the fewest bacterial breeding points possible. (no hoses and connections like RDWC uses)

I guess he could run a loop out of each, through a fridge/freezer and back again. Save mixing them all together. Seems smart.

I messed up my post. I was talking Ozone bubblers. Maybe I shouldn't be... but iirc ozone is air with extra oxygen. Hydrogen peroxide is water with extra oxygen. The parallels are interesting. The extra oxygen isn't really stable in this configurations, and as such is happy to go of and do other things. Like oxidise stuff. We get ozone gens for water purifying at home, that are just an air bubbler. The bits are very cheap to make that, but I would leave ozone dosing to the professionals.
People do use them in their tanks, I have seen it said. I'm not sure about in the bucket though. I fancy a tank outside..

 

[methias]

Won't even venture to give advice to someone that doesn't bother to check Ph/Ec. Oh and since it says you have no meter how did you calibrate it as you state several lines down from where you stated no meter

I have a PH meter and calibration solution. I am just switching from soil to hydro so I do not yet have all testing equipment. Planning to upgrade as money becomes available (hopefully soon).

Unfortunately the cheese could not be saved (by me at least) peroxide earlier might have helped.
Not a total loss. At just over 30 days flowering stinky buds are trimmed and in a paper bag in the freezer for an ISO wash down the road.
The roots however were amazing.

The VOG it's still doing great with big buds.
Vape on kids

 

[methias]

F-e and Doug,
Thank you for your input.
I wasn't considering water temperature at all when I switched from soil to hydro.
One cash flow improves I'm considering getting a mini fridge to put the pumps in so they are pumping cooler air in the summer.
If the same happens with my VOG I'll try the peroxide treatment.
Again thank you
vape on kids

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Yeah... mini fridge won't work so well, sorry to say. It's the 65F temp air coming out of an a/c unit which will work excellently to cool your water. I've not found a better way to chill DWC water and keep things cool using HID lighting.

Edit: Kids... lol Yeah, kids are funny.

 

[Gogin_Diddle]

It is your water temps which are the main issue.

Window banger a/c unit to help cool the garage a tad, but more importantly cool air stream to hang air pumps. Pumping cooler air will cool the water quickly. Keep an eye on temps as it can get too low. I always shoot for 68F.

Frozen water bottles sucks, but can help short term.

Exactly! Right on. Water at 67 holds 10x"s as much O2 then at 77. You're starving the plant.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Oh yeah... do yourself a big favor and use high proof vodka instead of ISO. Much tastier and muuuuch healthier.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

An organic alternative is organic grapefruit seed extract. There are water companies that use it too.

Grapefruit Seed Extract -- An Efficient Disinfectant - MetaEfficient

Grapefruit Seed Extract (or GSE) is a powerful disinfectant. It can be used to disinfect wounds, sterilize fruit and vegetables, purify drinking water, sanitize dishes, countertops and cutting boards and inhibit bacteria growth in pools and spas. The active ingredient of grapefruit seed extract...

metaefficient.com

"The grapefruit seed extract is also used to prevent algae from occurring in hydroponics."

Remove Algae in Hydroponics 101 | The Essential Guide - How Hydroponics

In this article, I am going to tell you more about why algae are formed in hydroponics, especially in Rockwool and how you can solve this problem. We will

howhydroponics.com

I have used it and have had no issues with water reservoirs and warm weather ever since.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Never heard of grapefruit seed extract, what flavor does it have? Cannabis absorbs many things rather easily, making terroir a big part of the end flavors/aromas.

 

[Growenhaft]

This is true and must always be kept in mind.

The ingredients are. Bioflavonoids such as hesperidin, combat herol, limonin, naringin, poncirin, quercentin and rutin.

At least limonin and camphor can change the taste menthol or enhance citrus flavors... doesn't really know about the others... I don't even know others and hear about them for the first time

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Grapefruit seed extract has bioflavinoids, hesperidin, campherol, limonin, camphor and other terpenes and precursors?

Definitely interesting. Ty so much.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Grapefruit seed extract has bioflavinoids, hesperidin, campherol, limonin, camphor and other terpenes and precursors?

Definitely interesting. Ty so much.

Glad to be of help.

Seeds and sprouts, especially fermented, have a lot of nutrients in them that have a lot of different uses.

This year I've used fermented, sprouted hempseeds/microgreens with sugar, instead of Clonex. It actually worked better, very thick roots. At first one clone looked like it was infected, but then I recognized the mould as the same as a few spots of mould floating on top. A week later it was very strongly rooted. There is something to infecting a clone/plant with beneficial bacteria to keep the bad bacteria at bay - rather than trying to kill all bacteria with chemicals.