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Active member
AFAIK chlorine will dissapate with sitting, but chloramine won't.. Potassium metabisulphite will neutralise chloramine.. or ro filter.
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My Stupid Grow Diary Filled with Stupid Thoughts
- Thread starter DontStopBelievn
- Start date
DontStopBelievn
Member
No, no worries at all. I appreciate the input and I don't really disagree with anything you're saying. I'm just not worried about those issues in the immediate, as they haven't been a problem.
And you're right about tap water. It's already treated with sodium hypochlorite. If sodium hypochlorite was toxic to cannabis, everyone who uses tap water would have dead plants. It all comes down to dosage.
There's the saying "you must be 21 to drink" which is 2 drops of bleach per quart of water to sanitize for drinking. Unfortunately, Big Bleach has introduced 8.25% to complicate things. If you have 8.25% bleach, it's 1 drop per quart, 5 drops per gallon.
DontStopBelievn
Member
The big push to chloramine is that it produces less VOCs when it degrades and it takes longer to degrade, about a week or two in sitting water. Having the water surface agitated and the volume circulated will speed up decomposition.
Campden tablets (specifically potassium metabisulfite) are the easiest route, by far. 1 tablet per 20 gallons of water, minimal amount of ppm. I honestly never bothered when brewing, except with open fermentation. It kills off acetobacter, that can cause severe souring and diminished ABV, while leaving the yeast alone to do its job.
IIRC, it takes 30 mins to boil off chloramine from 10 gallons of water. A typical boil of mash is 60 minutes to 90 minutes, far more than enough time to decompose and boil off the chloramine/chlorine.
The bleach connection...
Removing chloramine from water
Chloramine can be removed from tap water by treatment with superchlorination (10 ppm or more of free chlorine, such as from a dose of sodium hypochlorite bleach or pool sanitizer) while maintaining a pH of about 7 (such as from a dose of hydrochloric acid). Hypochlorous acid from the free chlorine strips the ammonia from the chloramine, and the ammonia outgasses from the surface of the bulk water. This process takes about 24 hours for normal tap water concentrations of a few ppm of chloramine. Residual free chlorine can then be removed by exposure to bright sunlight for about 4 hours
Removing chloramine from water
Chloramine can be removed from tap water by treatment with superchlorination (10 ppm or more of free chlorine, such as from a dose of sodium hypochlorite bleach or pool sanitizer) while maintaining a pH of about 7 (such as from a dose of hydrochloric acid). Hypochlorous acid from the free chlorine strips the ammonia from the chloramine, and the ammonia outgasses from the surface of the bulk water. This process takes about 24 hours for normal tap water concentrations of a few ppm of chloramine. Residual free chlorine can then be removed by exposure to bright sunlight for about 4 hours
DontStopBelievn
Member
Yeah, you can go the free chlorine route using bleach and balancing the pH, but I would still prefer campden tablets because you use 1/2 a tablet (get a pill cutter) to treat 10 gallons. And it does so in under 15 minutes while only adding ~65 ppm per gallon. It's the simplest and easiest route and the tablets are dirt cheap. If you buy in bulk, you can get 1 lbs bags from LD Carlson of 730 tablets for under $20 USD at your local homebrew store. That's enough to treat 14,600 gallons of water and it can be done with minimal residual effect, which is why campden tablets are so popular with making wine, cider and beer.
FWIW, I haven't had any negative effect from using chloraminated tap water in DWC.
DontStopBelievn
Member
Let me explain my setup.
DWC, ScroG, Banana Fast from Expert Seeds (promotional freebies).
Cab is 7'8" height, 2'3" width, 2' length.
Exhaust fan is AC Infinity S4 set at 1/8th speed (25.625 cfm).
2 each 6" personal fans for circulation.
2 each 4" pass intakes with bound and secured dryer ducts.
Light is Viparspectra XS1500 LED
Tote is HDX 12 gallon from Home Depot, filled up to 8 gallons.
Powerhead is old and I don't remember what model, brand. (will check when I do res change)
Net pot is 3" using 3" neoprene collar.
Nutes: GH MaxiGrow, GH MaxiBloom, Botanicare CaMg, Botanicare Hydroguard
You can see a copy of the grow log spreadsheet that I created in xlsx format here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/qfzq4iq579q9bsc/Cannabis_Notes.xlsx/file
I use it as a daily logbook and then compile with previous data into an archival copy.
DWC, ScroG, Banana Fast from Expert Seeds (promotional freebies).
Cab is 7'8" height, 2'3" width, 2' length.
Exhaust fan is AC Infinity S4 set at 1/8th speed (25.625 cfm).
2 each 6" personal fans for circulation.
2 each 4" pass intakes with bound and secured dryer ducts.
Light is Viparspectra XS1500 LED
Tote is HDX 12 gallon from Home Depot, filled up to 8 gallons.
Powerhead is old and I don't remember what model, brand. (will check when I do res change)
Net pot is 3" using 3" neoprene collar.
Nutes: GH MaxiGrow, GH MaxiBloom, Botanicare CaMg, Botanicare Hydroguard
You can see a copy of the grow log spreadsheet that I created in xlsx format here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/qfzq4iq579q9bsc/Cannabis_Notes.xlsx/file
I use it as a daily logbook and then compile with previous data into an archival copy.
A question...if you use hydrogaurd for beneficial bacteria....and then use Camden tablets to kill bacteria and negate chloramine...
Is this not a exercise in futility?
As I understand it the camden is a sulfate
Base and will lock up oxygen and kill the beneficial bacteria in the hydrogaurd...
I understand that Camden is used in brewing for sterilization....I have not heard of it used in hydroponics
Am I missing something?
Is this not a exercise in futility?
As I understand it the camden is a sulfate
Base and will lock up oxygen and kill the beneficial bacteria in the hydrogaurd...
I understand that Camden is used in brewing for sterilization....I have not heard of it used in hydroponics
Am I missing something?
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DontStopBelievn
Member
I don’t actually use camden tablets, so I can’t speak for how well they work in hydroponics regarding hydroguard. My water is treated with chloramine and I’ve had 3 grows so far with no problems, so I don’t bother trying to get rid of the chloramine.
My only experience with camden tablets has been brewing farmhouse ales using wild yeast.
DontStopBelievn
Member
It's now October, which means Halloween, which means spooky shit, such as resurrecting dead threads to feed on the living.
I flowered my initial Banana Fast from Expert Seeds and my experience was TERRIBLE. Fast my ass. I put the first crop into flower for 10 WEEKS and trichomes were still mostly cloudy, some clear, few had deep amber. I flowered a clone of a plant I had started outdoors, (that I later killed) and it had some notable purpling. I had some issues with grow boxes and experimenting, causing some bud foliage to be UV burned to a crisp. Overall, result was similar to the other plant.
High is very sativa, takes literally minutes to fully hit, makes you want to reinvent the wheel. Most weird thing is that it smells like artificial fruity cereal. That sugary malt smell with a hint if various fruit, that's what this bud smelled like. It tastes more on the lemon palate.
I'm pissed that I wasted my time on that strain. It's not bad, but I would prefer more hard hitting strains.
I'll post some pics soon. I've been bogged down in working a lot, picking up a second job.
I never received a response from an emial support request regarding Botanicare Hydroguard's viability when using campden tablets at dosages to treat chloramine.
I flowered my initial Banana Fast from Expert Seeds and my experience was TERRIBLE. Fast my ass. I put the first crop into flower for 10 WEEKS and trichomes were still mostly cloudy, some clear, few had deep amber. I flowered a clone of a plant I had started outdoors, (that I later killed) and it had some notable purpling. I had some issues with grow boxes and experimenting, causing some bud foliage to be UV burned to a crisp. Overall, result was similar to the other plant.
High is very sativa, takes literally minutes to fully hit, makes you want to reinvent the wheel. Most weird thing is that it smells like artificial fruity cereal. That sugary malt smell with a hint if various fruit, that's what this bud smelled like. It tastes more on the lemon palate.
I'm pissed that I wasted my time on that strain. It's not bad, but I would prefer more hard hitting strains.
I'll post some pics soon. I've been bogged down in working a lot, picking up a second job.
I never received a response from an emial support request regarding Botanicare Hydroguard's viability when using campden tablets at dosages to treat chloramine.
DontStopBelievn
Member
This is the clone that was trained under a 4' cab, giving about 3' of grow space be
I didn't weight it, but dried filled an entire freezer bag.
Some bud pics before being plucked and bagged.
This clone had more amber than first larger harvest. You can also obviously see the UV burns on the buds from when they got too close to the LED before I cold transfer. I have some better tools (newly acquired) to look at shit and evaluate. I hope to add some more content soon and I apologize for being so shit with my posting. But life is whack as fuck right now. So please bear with me and I'll try to answer what I can and do what I can to document and talk about my grow,
BTW, Just started 710 Genetics' Old White Widow (Right) and Expert Seeds' Northern Lights (Left).
So far, WW is thriving after a questionable seed pop (curlicue tap root was having difficulty establishing), while NL is struggle bussing to establish vegetative growth despite a very strong and straight tap root. Some early shots. More recent ones to come soon.
Oh, and I turned a freezer bag of Banana Fast 2nd harvest (from clone) trims into bubble hash! First time I've ever made hash. I got most of everything in first run. Second run was lot of chlorophyll contamination., but I don't care too much because the yield was garbage anyways. 1 was from 120. 2 was from 45. 3 was from 25.
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DontStopBelievn
Member
Update to changes in protocol:
I've moved on from KISS GH Flower at 7.5g/gallon to adjusting water to pH ~5.6 and then adding nutrients (GH Grow/Bloom) at around 4.5g to 5.5g, 1-2mL/g of CaMg and 1mL/g of Hydroguard. I supplement with GH KoolBloom at flowering week 4 and 6.
I also ditched my old dial timers (relics) and now use smart plugs with Google Home and use Routines to time light cycles. I turn on at a specific time, delay for a time (12-18 hours), then turn off. At any time I can easily edit when the light cycle changes and I can be anywhere in the world with a data connection to make it happen.
Also, winter is approaching. Which means I'm going to eventually say goodbye to my LED and hello to my 150w HPS.
I've moved on from KISS GH Flower at 7.5g/gallon to adjusting water to pH ~5.6 and then adding nutrients (GH Grow/Bloom) at around 4.5g to 5.5g, 1-2mL/g of CaMg and 1mL/g of Hydroguard. I supplement with GH KoolBloom at flowering week 4 and 6.
I also ditched my old dial timers (relics) and now use smart plugs with Google Home and use Routines to time light cycles. I turn on at a specific time, delay for a time (12-18 hours), then turn off. At any time I can easily edit when the light cycle changes and I can be anywhere in the world with a data connection to make it happen.
Also, winter is approaching. Which means I'm going to eventually say goodbye to my LED and hello to my 150w HPS.
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DontStopBelievn
Member
Chloramine will naturally dissipate. Acidity also speeds this up. My hypothesis is that treating your water with pH down will accelerate breakdown and off-gassing of chloramine. Overall, I dont worry about this. I think it's trivial.
Something to consider is giving the Dyna-Gro lineup a shot it's a overall superior product for hydroponics easy clean and complete
Most all hydro growers I know have switched to it...in side by side test it blows all the expensive snake oils out of the water...worth a look for sure
Keep at it...you'll find the flow
Never stop believing
DontStopBelievn
Member
GH nutes are stocked at Ace Hardware now, so it's fairly easy for me to get them IRL and they're notably cheaper than buying online. Will look into Dyna-Gro.
So far I'm more and more impressed with 710 Genetics' Old White Widow. It's so compact and bushy. Seems like it would be perfect for SOG. Will be interesting to see what happens during the stretch.
