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Mk III Terpenator

Holden Oversoul

New member
We pump down between passes, so after 5 passes, the butane level in the lower collection tank would be the same.

This is confusing to me because I'm following the procedure from the MK III post on the SPR website. I've pumped it down to -10" Hg between floods and the butane level most certainly rises in the collection pot with each cycle. When you say "pump down" between passes do you mean I should let the gauge go until it reaches -22" Hg between floods.

Please change the silicone rubber gaskets in your site glass to Viton. Silicone rubber absorbs butane.

Wilco Gray Wolf. Does anyone know if there is a local source in the San Francisco Bay Area for Viton gaskets?

Amber after 5 passes begs more information. We typically clear the material and yield 20% at 3 to 4 passes.

How long are you allowing it to soak?

Again, as I stated above the "soak time" has been dictated by length of time it takes the gauge to reach -10" Hg. The first cycle is fast and takes a minute or so to pump down, each subsequent flood cycle takes longer. I can complete a 4 flood cycle run in less than an hour. Which seems fully in-line with what I've read, and what Carla showed me when I was there, and what I expected.

We examine the spent material under a microscope, to tell whether we are getting it all or not.

I brought the USB scope home so that my 5 year old could play with it. I'm taking it in today and will take a look. I've been contemplating making a video to show step-by-step what I'm doing.
 

Sir D

Member
I know I've seen it somewhere but can't find it again about what rubber product is used to coat the inside of the terp for easy oil extraction afterwards? Would that be viton as well?
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Supporter
This is confusing to me because I'm following the procedure from the MK III post on the SPR website. I've pumped it down to -10" Hg between floods and the butane level most certainly rises in the collection pot with each cycle. When you say "pump down" between passes do you mean I should let the gauge go until it reaches -22" Hg between floods.



Wilco Gray Wolf. Does anyone know if there is a local source in the San Francisco Bay Area for Viton gaskets?



Again, as I stated above the "soak time" has been dictated by length of time it takes the gauge to reach -10" Hg. The first cycle is fast and takes a minute or so to pump down, each subsequent flood cycle takes longer. I can complete a 4 flood cycle run in less than an hour. Which seems fully in-line with what I've read, and what Carla showed me when I was there, and what I expected.



I brought the USB scope home so that my 5 year old could play with it. I'm taking it in today and will take a look. I've been contemplating making a video to show step-by-step what I'm doing.


Pumping down to -10" Hg between floods removes most of the puddle in the tank, so that you can reflood without overfilling the lower tank and aspirating liquid into your pump.

Try Paramount Supply plumbing. They custom make mine for me in any size or material.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Supporter
I know I've seen it somewhere but can't find it again about what rubber product is used to coat the inside of the terp for easy oil extraction afterwards? Would that be viton as well?

We don't coat the terpenator interiors. We either wash out our oil with ethanol, or freeze the tank, take off the bottom for access, and easily scrape the frozen oil off the polished stainless Terpenator interiors.
 

Sir D

Member
Wolf- may I ask why you haven't tried anything? I'm assuming a bit difficult with all the transferring and pressures? Thanks for taking the time.

Over soul- i think it was u saying something about making a video....... Do it man! It's needed. Though I'm finding all the info here on the web you just have to piece it together.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Supporter
Wolf- may I ask why you haven't tried anything? I'm assuming a bit difficult with all the transferring and pressures? Thanks for taking the time.

Over soul- i think it was u saying something about making a video....... Do it man! It's needed. Though I'm finding all the info here on the web you just have to piece it together.

Because I am uncomfortable with isomer coatings that may come off in the extraction. I also haven't really had any issues with washing it out with alcohol for winterization, or freezing the cotton candy so that scraping is a breeze.

We are still planning a video, but the schedule that we had fell through when the camera man, and then the film producer bailed on us at the last moment. We had to scrounge the equipment and find another crew at the last moment, so only the lecture got filmed.

Sarah was nice enough to fly up for us, and I think that she did a nice spur of the moment job, but was limited in equipment and as soon as we see favorable results, we will ask her to follow thorough with our ongoing filming needs.

While we want to produce educational films, we want to do so professionally, so that we are taken seriously.

I did have to buy a new Cannon video camera to film the lecture, so now we have two reasonable cameras for the rest of our project, but still need to do something to better control sound.
 

Momerath

Active member
Holden, I have been having the same yield issues. A consistent 10-11% with everything I have run, even good nug. I am starting to think it may have something to do with the amount of gasses/liquid in the recovery tank. When I begin a flood cycle, I hear the hissing of gaseous propane for a good 2-3 seconds before it quiets and the liquid butane begins flowing. Could it be perhaps too much gas in the tank, allowing less butane to flood the column? I flood until the dip tube gets cold, I am thinking I may need to go a second or two longer, to get the ideal amount of liquid butane into the column to completely flood it, instead of say flooding 80-90% with liquid and the rest with gaseous propane. I don't know what to think. Maybe my material is all just 10% stuff ;)

I have been putting off installing my sight glass, as others have reported cracking or leaky gaskets, but maybe today I will run with it so I can see exactly whats happening, and whether I need to do more floods or not.
 

high life 45

Seen your Member?
M, after you run with a sight glass, its hard to imagine running blind. Maybe im just a visual guy..

I had no leaks and it installed with ease.

How much material (in g's) are you all (anyone) running before needing to tap some more cans.

I have a 3" x 24" column on my mk3 and we seem to be loosing alot of tane, due to budget cuts ;) I havent gotten a scale yet. Its on order though..

Im wondering if im running into an issue because of the volume of the column vs the volume of the collection vessel..which is identical unless I double stack.

Originally I double stacked the collection vessels, and was running multiple columns but we had an issue with atmosphere, and then not enough butane, and now I think I need to burp off some propane..

Perhaps I just need a bigger refridgerant tank, ie 100# vs 50# to do more runs without having to refill as often...

Thanx in advance
 

high life 45

Seen your Member?
In my experience, seeing golden color in the sight glass doesn't necessarily mean that you are pulling oil. I was wondering the same thing too, so after one of my usual 3-5 column floods, I switched to a fresh recovery pots and ran another 3-5 on the same column. The color seen in the sight glass remained golden by the end of the 5th (actually 10th) flood, but the yield in the 2nd recovery pot was significantly less, and super goopy and dark.

I think the better indicator for is looking for wavy distortion in the liquid butane, similar to what you would see if you dissolve sugar in water.

So you are having runs where that butane doesnt run clear?

And you are still getting appropriate yields for the material?

When I have had that experience I took it as an indication of not enough tane in the system, the yield has confirmed the indication everytime so far..

What happened to me was after the first flood the sight glass shows tane, but its just boiling in the sightglass and not much was moving through the dip tube into the collection vessel.

I suspiciously let it "flood" for the predetermined amount of time, but to no suprise there was not much in the collection vessel...

Just my experience..
 

A6 Grower

Member
They only time you should be loosing butane is by not recovering all the way and leaving some left in the column/pot. Or and the most likely is you have a leak, Probably your appion while its running. check to see if it holds pressure and vacuum.
 

high life 45

Seen your Member?
They only time you should be loosing butane is by not recovering all the way and leaving some left in the column/pot. Or and the most likely is you have a leak, Probably your appion while its running. check to see if it holds pressure and vacuum.

Whats up A6,

Your right I do have a leak on my valve 2 when its being opened, theres a bit of oil building up on it...hoping to get it replaced soon but I need the gas rated tape first. I have a lil toolbox for my terp and it wasn't in there, must be somewhere else..

I am not sure I agree with ya about loosing butane.
If that were true we wouldn't have to vacuum purge/winterize the oil that is remaining in the collection vessel. There is a small bit left in every time that you have to deal with one way or another. Otherwise people would be pulling shatter or wax right out of the collection vessel, and I wouldn't know that if I buy an AI vac oven the crappy plastic handle is gonna break off:biggrin:....there is minimal butane that is lost.

Sure you could recover 100% but it wouldn't be practical for those that need to get through alot of material..

Every so often you have to tap more cans to account for the butane that is left in the oil that you purge out, at least I think.

I am trying to find out how much material you go through before you need to retap cans...

Honestly Im just waiting for the refr scale to come in the mail, and was looking for an answer in the meantime..so I could could tap after x amount of material, instead of mid flood having to switch out bottoms and tap.
:tumbleweed:

Now that I think about it its an open ended question, since the amount of butane lost is probably gonna be proportionate to the amount the the material yields..

:huggg:
:thank you:
 

A6 Grower

Member
When my pump didn't leak i could run with ~10#'s in the tank and process about 70-100#'s of material before it'd start to get low. Then id empty the tank, about 2.5#'s remained maybe more. LEave it open for a day to air out the vac it down and let it sit for a day release vac & re vac and fill with 10#'s agian.

Im impatient and usually recover the butane from the column till around 0 to -10, then shut the column off and remove it to toss outside to off gas the rest. I also recover to around -20 MAX then use the vac to finish it off, unless im pouring it out then i just stop recovering around -10. Thats where i loose butane mostly. Yes you do lose some with what's stuck in the oil but thats not really much at all.

You can take apart and clean those ball valves and they shouldn't leak anymore. I clean mine every few months.
 

high life 45

Seen your Member?
When my pump didn't leak i could run with 10#'s in the tank and process about 70-100#'s of material before itd start to get low. Then id empty the tank, about 2.5#'s remained maybe more. LEave it open for a day to air out the vac it down and let it sit for a day release vac & re vac and fill with 10#'s agian.

Im impatient and usually recover the butane from the coloumn till around 0 to -10, then shut the column off and remove it to toss outside to off gass the rest. I also recover to around -20 MAX then use the vac to finish it off, unless im pouring it out then i just stop recovering around -10. Thats where i loose butane mostly. Yes you do loss some with whats stuck in the oil but thats not really much at all.

You can take apart and clean those ball valves and they shouldnt leak anymore. I clean mine every few months.

Thanks a6, thats exactly what I was after.

So even with pouring off you can run over 50# of material before you get low?

Was your pump leaking internally?
 

A6 Grower

Member
Guess i didn't word that right, theres much more loss with pouring but i haven't done much pouring really to give a good estimate of los per material. Just lazy/short recovery, yes i can get though 50# out of 10# of butane with no leaks. I haven't fixed the pump yet, just got a new one and am going to fix that one when i have time and keep it as a back up or hook them both up and speed up recovery(maybe?) But ya im sure its somewhere internally, i can hear it just a little.
 

Momerath

Active member
I've been thinking of ways to measure how much butane we are losing with the pour off method. I'm just gonna blast a can into the collection vessel and see how high it comes up the side, and mark it somehow. I am guestimating the loss at between 150-300ml per pour off, but those numbers mean little until I do some real measuring.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Supporter
Whats up A6,

Your right I do have a leak on my valve 2 when its being opened, theres a bit of oil building up on it...hoping to get it replaced soon but I need the gas rated tape first. I have a lil toolbox for my terp and it wasn't in there, must be somewhere else..

I am not sure I agree with ya about loosing butane.
If that were true we wouldn't have to vacuum purge/winterize the oil that is remaining in the collection vessel. There is a small bit left in every time that you have to deal with one way or another. Otherwise people would be pulling shatter or wax right out of the collection vessel, and I wouldn't know that if I buy an AI vac oven the crappy plastic handle is gonna break off:biggrin:....there is minimal butane that is lost.

Sure you could recover 100% but it wouldn't be practical for those that need to get through alot of material..

Every so often you have to tap more cans to account for the butane that is left in the oil that you purge out, at least I think.

I am trying to find out how much material you go through before you need to retap cans...

Honestly Im just waiting for the refr scale to come in the mail, and was looking for an answer in the meantime..so I could could tap after x amount of material, instead of mid flood having to switch out bottoms and tap.
:tumbleweed:

Now that I think about it its an open ended question, since the amount of butane lost is probably gonna be proportionate to the amount the the material yields..

:huggg:
:thank you:

100% recovery wears out the recovery pump by essentially running it dry. We shut off recovery at -22" Hg, which means about 25% of the volume of the Terpenator still has butane in it, in vapor form. The conversion rate of butane from liquid to vapor, is 288:1, so the losses are a few pennies worth of butane, and way cheaper than rebuilding pumps, not to mention standing around waiting for the second coming, because that last bit takes more time than the rest of the cycle getting to that point..
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Supporter
I've been thinking of ways to measure how much butane we are losing with the pour off method. I'm just gonna blast a can into the collection vessel and see how high it comes up the side, and mark it somehow. I am guestimating the loss at between 150-300ml per pour off, but those numbers mean little until I do some real measuring.

300 ml of water is the same as butane.
 

high life 45

Seen your Member?
100% recovery wears out the recovery pump by essentially running it dry. We shut off recovery at -22" Hg, which means about 25% of the volume of the Terpenator still has butane in it, in vapor form. The conversion rate of butane from liquid to vapor, is 288:1, so the losses are a few pennies worth of butane, and way cheaper than rebuilding pumps, not to mention standing around waiting for the second coming, because that last bit takes more time than the rest of the cycle getting to that point..


:bow:Thanks GW! That makes so much sense...running it dry...



I got an old pal of mine whos truly experiencing the miracle of concentrates in various forms..He hasn't been able to properly walk or even cross his legs for years, his hip is gone, and the va has been trying to convince him to get a replacement...well let me tell ya, a nice dab and this old man is DANCING.:party:
I mean he really cuts the rug...he has been prescribed opiates for over 25 years and never has had the relief that a simple dab gives him..sorry to derail, but I wanted to give you some kudos...and to share
 

Kcar

There are FOUR lights!
Guess i didn't word that right, theres much more loss with pouring but i haven't done much pouring really to give a good estimate of los per material. Just lazy/short recovery, yes i can get though 50# out of 10# of butane with no leaks. I haven't fixed the pump yet, just got a new one and am going to fix that one when i have time and keep it as a back up or hook them both up and speed up recovery(maybe?) But ya im sure its somewhere internally, i can hear it just a little.

I thought I could, too. But it turned out to be the crush washer
in the filter-drier. After you crush them a bunch of times, they stop
sealing.
 

A6 Grower

Member
I thought I could, too. But it turned out to be the crush washer
in the filter-drier. After yyou crush them a bunch of times, they stop
sealing.

Ya that's why i only rremove my filter dryier when I replace them. The copper can only form to the flare so many times
 

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