Living organic soil from start through recycling

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Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
Be aware that there is an alternative way to reuse soil. We did almost exactly as Gascan did for several years when using 5 gallon pails for growing.

When we switched to an indoor facsimile of our outdoor beds we used stacked bins and left the soil fully intact, treating it with liquid amendments and teams of composting worms between planting.

This allowed fungal networks and layered (heirarchical) microbial populations to remain intact.

Were I to do this again [not presently growing indoors] I would attempt replanting almost immediately following harvest because the interaction between roots and microbes has a lot to do with the life of soil [as demonstrated previously by Mr Fista]


Brilliant.....
I like it...the more I stroll down this path the more I realize MM has pioneered the practices we (organic nut jobs and purists) are eventually going to come to on this journey.
 
I would like to take a shot at this one...please be gentle. Ca++ "floculates" clay particles...that is it combines them into bigger masses of particles which opens up the soil allowing for more oxygen in the soil
YS
This is the only part of your post that I had to think about on how flocculation could be used to describe what is going on in the rhizosphere.

I think I figured out what you were trying to illustrate so if I misinterpreted anything that you meant or wrote then I apologize.

Clay particles normally lay together flat, but are repelled by the negative charges across their face. Salt (Na+) is present in minor amounts. The graphic below illustrates this:

clay-salt-disaggregation.gif

Soils with high clay content can become so dense and compact that they may resist plant rooting. This may happen for one of two reasons:

First, the salt in the soil has neutralized the negative electrical charges which normally cause clay particles to repel each other as shown in this graphic:

clay-salt-overload.gif

Second, the percentage of clay in the soil is so high that the positive charge on the edge of a clay particle combines with the negative charge on the flat surface of another, forming a tight three-dimensional structure as shown in this graphic:

clay-tightening.gif

Clay compaction. When the percentage of clay in the soil is very high, and especially when an excessive amount of salt is present, the positive charge on the edge of a clay particle combines with the negative charge on the flat surface of another, forming a tight three_dimensional structure.

Humic acid causes the clay particles to stand on end, allowing water penetration. It does this two ways.

First, it segregates salts and removes them from the surface of the clay particle. The net negative charge resulting causes the clay particles to repel each other, loosening the soil structure.

Second, a carbon group on the humic acid molecule (carboxyl group) bonds with the edge of the positively charged particles. This breaks the attractive force between the positive charge at the edge of a particle and the negative charge or the flat surface of another as shown in this graphic:

clay-loosening.gif

Humic acid encourages water penetration. As humic acid penetrates compacted clay platelets, it segregates salts (positive ions) and removes them from the clay particle surface. This restores a negative charge to the face of the clay platelets, causing them to repel each other.

This action, called protective colloidal action, loosens soil, letting roots penetrate more easily. Humic acid's effect on clay soil is more evident as time passes. In heavy clay soils, six months or more may be needed before you will see a noticeable improvement in the soil's density.

Are we close? LOL

CC
 
Dare I bring in the role of Sulfur into the discussion?

The only thing that would (and should) hold me back is that I'll have to read the usual FUD about how Sulfur is a fungicide and it'll kill the microbes or something equally inane and inaccurate.

I'd rather have a lobotomy than a bottle in front of me
 
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Blasting, billowing, bursting forth
With the power of ten billion butterfly sneezes
Man with his flaming pyre
Has conquered the wayward breezes
Climbing to tranquility
Far above the cloud
Conceiving the heavens
Clear of misty shroud

Higher and higher
Now we've learned to play with fire
Go higher and higher and higher
 

Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
Thank you...without you and MM..and the otherz..I'd have not risked the ridicule to post any of this organic nonsense...which clearly is not nonsense.

...and now off to a festival with me...where I will use Albert Hoffman's tool for a few days and think about things~
 
FINALLY my prayers have been answered as well as anyone remotely concerned about their gardens - a pH meter which hooks up to an iPhone where the software can be scheduled to take a reading as often as possible!!!!!!!!!

I have an old iPhone which will run this technology and I've been using it as an iPod and to stream movies and videos to our 'entertainment center' but THIS - talk about complete control, eh?

God I love geeks and stoners!

PH-meter-1.JPG
 

Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
....but can I check the Ph while I'm at the festival?

I saw my Ph meter a month or so ago in a box somewhere...lost again....that poor lonely ol thing...batteries probably all swollen up.....
 
GC

You'e missing the possibilities on this technology - say I have this iPhone and pH pen hooked up 24/7 set on pulling a reading every 15 minutes. That reading can be set up as a file then uploaded to Apple's iCloud. Now that reading will appear on my iPhone and iPads so that regardless of what I'm doing then I'll be alerted to rush back to the garden and grab a bottle of pH Up or pH Down thereby saving my garden from non-dank dumb!

I need to look and see if it's possible to hook up a vibrating butt-plug so that in case I don't get the message on this or that app, the tingle will be yet another insurance policy!

Next up is to set-up 2 reservoirs using Tropf Blumat - one tank would be to raise the pH and the other would be set-up to handle the pH down deal.

Automated. Complete pH control. What more could I ask for?

I need a hankie and stuff.........

CC
 

Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
GC

You'e missing the possibilities on this technology - say I have this iPhone and pH pen hooked up 24/7 set on pulling a reading every 15 minutes. That reading can be set up as a file then uploaded to Apple's iCloud. Now that reading will appear on my iPhone and iPads so that regardless of what I'm doing then I'll be alerted to rush back to the garden and grab a bottle of pH Up or pH Down thereby saving my garden from non-dank dumb!

I need to look and see if it's possible to hook up a vibrating butt-plug so that in case I don't get the message on this or that app, the tingle will be yet another insurance policy!

Next up is to set-up 2 reservoirs using Tropf Blumat - one tank would be to raise the pH and the other would be set-up to handle the pH down deal.

Automated. Complete pH control. What more could I ask for?

I need a hankie and stuff.........

CC

15 years ago I had a discussion about being able to do this exact same thing from a thousand miles away....when I was a PH meter guy...minus the butt plug thing..

Butt if I'd have stayed on that path I may very well have gone for the butt plug option by now...and that is simply because I'd be getting fucked anyway.
 
Y

YosemiteSam

YS
This is the only part of your post that I had to think about on how flocculation could be used to describe what is going on in the rhizosphere.

I think I figured out what you were trying to illustrate so if I misinterpreted anything that you meant or wrote then I apologize.



Are we close? LOL

CC

no that is right...the clay particles are negatively charged and Ca has two positive charges...so it can lump a bunch of clay particles together. If you use enough drainage amendments that probably does not matter...but in field soil it does.

thanks to darc though i finally got what you guys are saying. ima little slow...but yea, Ca from organics is genius.
 
Y

YosemiteSam

Dare I bring in the role of Sulfur into the discussion?

The only thing that would (and should) hold me back is that I'll have to read the usual FUD about how Sulfur is a fungicide and it'll kill the microbes or something equally inane and inaccurate.

I'd rather have a lobotomy than a bottle in front of me


S may...but SO4-- is taken up by the plants and without it you got no terpines...very important

you guys make more sense all the time.
 
S may...but SO4-- is taken up by the plants and without it you got no terpines...very important

Thank you Jesus - oh and you too, YS!

Finally. Finally. Wanna talk about Secondary Metabolites and their relationship to PGRs by any chance? That would be really helpful I would think.

Ya know - real Botany and stuff!

CC
 
Yosemite Sam

Have you used Oilseed Radish (mustard family) to break-up a field you're wanting to develop? With the heavy levels of clay in the PNW this plant has become more widely used than maybe in other parts of the country.

The seeds are cheap enough.......

CC
 
Y

YosemiteSam

Wanna talk about Secondary Metabolites and their relationship to PGRs by any chance? That would be really helpful I would think.

Ya know - real Botany and stuff!

CC


That is above my pay grade at the moment but I would love to see a link or citation.

Not seen Oilseed Radish but I will take a look. Real alkaline soil in Western CO though...opposite problem probably

and for the record...I did not mean you guys did not make sense...what I really meant was it took me a while to see based on my background
 
S

SeaMaiden

We already have a thread for that, I believe dizzlekush started it.

Dare I bring in the role of Sulfur into the discussion?

The only thing that would (and should) hold me back is that I'll have to read the usual FUD about how Sulfur is a fungicide and it'll kill the microbes or something equally inane and inaccurate.

I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me
There. Fixed it for ya.
 
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Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
I recommenced gathering soil from the humic layer and gathering leaf litter for use in recyclable potting mediums.....why?

Not only do I get a wide range of diversity from living local micro-organisms,but I also get a wide diversity of fungi and local insects....which all aid in the balance and this is the #1 way next to compost/EWC to introduce life to the soil I will be using for growing my cannabis indoors in containers. The more diversity I introduce,the more balance I achieve in the soil....and the less trouble I will have.

I always recommend gathering this material from under well established deciduous tress and shrubs...as the humic layer under pine is more acidic and lacks the range of life forms that deciduous trees offer in most cases..not all.

When gathering this material I find that I should be environmentally responsible as I borrow this material from several smaller places rather than dig big gaping holes under well established trees. I always backfill these places with material directly adjacent to the hole and try to disturb as little as possible.

After adding this material to a soil mix I find that several types of insects will make themselves apparent. This is usually no cause for concern as they will peck themselves out as wolf and sheep on a much smaller scale. The ones that can live in this indoor potted environment will survive,the ones that don't become food.

Balance will be achieved if the soil is diverse. There is a chance of picking up destructive pest,but very few types of these insects actually make it through an indoor environment. There are organic and natural solutions to EVERY pest problem..so DO NOT stress...we have the solution.

Here is the typical soil strata

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O Horizon (Humus/Litter Layer)
This layer consists of decaying plant and animal materials (e.g. leaf mold). Humus is the major component of organic matter in soil. This layer is very biologically active (i.e. lots of soil bacteria and fungi). Compost benefits this soil layer immensely.

A Horizon (Top Soil)
This layer consists of mineral- and humus-rich soils. The A Horizon is also very biologically active (i.e. lots of soil bacteria and fungi). Again, compost benefits this layer of soil in a massive way.

B Horizon (Subsoil)
This layer is low in humus, but is very mineral-rich.

C Horizon (Parent Material)
This layer contains little plant and animal life.

Sent from my Goo Goo 4000 SUX ME-phone
 
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