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LED and BUD QUALITY

Rocket Soul

Well-known member
100 dollars to anyone who can get Bruce Bugbee to stop blaming Zinc deficiency on red light.



I offered 1000 to force him to admit plants absorb zwitterionic organic salts. Seems the conspiracy against quality Marijuana is larger than I thought. The fan boys are in on it.


Still no nutrient experts in the Cannabis scene? Only light meter salesmen? Someone please post the PAR readings for a meanwell powered 120 watt 188 diode panel at 18" so every new grower can have this data without buying light meters please.

Problem here is that Bugbees research is based on 660nm red peaks; he then generalized this as "red light" as if all reds are the same. Which they are not.
 

Orange's Greenhouse

Active member
Problem here is that Bugbees research is based on 660nm red peaks; he then generalized this as "red light" as if all reds are the same. Which they are not.
What do you expect? A 4 minute clip necessitates simplification.

Give it a few years and the research topics get more specialized. Red light will be split into more subcatogories, small waveband emitters will be compared to wide band emission etc. Science is slow.
 

Porky82

Well-known member
My intention isn’t to make you feel bad or to put you down, so i hope you won’t take it like that

I tried to find a post by you where you show your nutrient lab test results. Couldn’t find it but i found some photos of your grow. I lifted the photo out of your post on page 184 on this thread.

If your nutrient analysis is based on this feed that you gave these plants and you assume it’s spot on. it’s just not

The dark color of leaves and leaves cupping like that is a well know sign on too much Nitrogen. This isn’t any news for sativa and haze growers. When your haze hybrid has leaves cupping like that the grower gave them too much N

The photos of your dried buds show the same problem. Way too much N

View attachment 19061664

If you think that is how you good weed is supposed to look like. Or if you think it compares well with the bud you smoked by some other grower then all i can say that you have never smoked well grown bud in your life.

I’m not just trying to say mean things to make you feel bad. It’s just how it is.

If you think that is good then you have no idea what good weed is.




I think you guys are trying to fix your led issues the wrong way by giving them more higher EC and more nitrogen


If the argument is that high ppfd or intense led light needs stronger nutrient feed to support the metabolism or how ever the fuck your jargon goes

Then explain to me why it’s accumulating in the leaves and showing clear signs of excess feeding.

So if your plants are suffering under your lights it’s something other than nutrient deficiencies because clearly you are over feeding them. It’s not even a debate.



@greayfader i saw photos of your plants too. same issue. too much N



Come at me boys. i know your egos can’t handle this. you will get upset and want to start shit with me like you did before. Get the whole clown squad together so i can ream the fuck out of the whole bunch at the same time
This has to be one of the funniest posts I've read in ages.
You should have a look at my plants if ya want to see to much N! They fucking frying in it! 🤣
 

Ca++

Well-known member
Edit: The white pen is a mistake, I can't see in the edit to correct.

The bleaching doesn't seem that complicated. The question is as much about why they make chlorophyll below 600umol, as it is why they stop above it. We know of a few mechanisms employed to slow photosynthesis, and conversely think chlorophyll helps photosynthesis. We feel 1800umol is very bright, and the point where damage starts to occur. Looking at that 1800, if it came from the sun (as expected) then the red fraction would be about 600 (600+600+600=1800) So I surmise, that the plant moves from protection mechanisms (such as pigmentation) to a method of actually reducing the capture equipment.

I don't feel I need to know any more than this. We have cause and effect, and so how to avoid it, and the consequences of letting it run. It's interesting that a few years ago we were working HIDs and knew non of this, but did know to move the light. My team actually thought it was the heat. Today we can pick the lights we need, based on red fraction and our intended illumination. It would be nice to see a graph of that. I expect it would tell us R80 (80% red) is great at 600umol/m2. Than the plot would finish with R40 (40% red) at 1700umol/m2. With the line passing though R60, at around 1200umol/m2. We don't see these R% numbers very often, as they are more relevant when specifying pink lights. Most of our lights are around R60 though, I think.

I will put the coloured pens down now
 

Ca++

Well-known member
A little off topic, but under HID lighting, the buds tend to be 3c warmer than the leaves. Leaves have more cooling mechanisms. When we run LED, we run a warmer room, but don't get that fluid distribution, where the buds are hotter, so get more water/food than the leaf. We warm the room, to ensure the buds get what they needed, but at the same time, the leaves get too much.

This might show in the morphology, where a top bud doesn't increase it's share of the water, though running warmer.
It might also show in a higher number of curling leaves.

It might show in the general stratospheric distribution. Which we see with more uniform bud sizes, and presumably what is on them.
 

Rocket Soul

Well-known member
A little off topic, but under HID lighting, the buds tend to be 3c warmer than the leaves. Leaves have more cooling mechanisms. When we run LED, we run a warmer room, but don't get that fluid distribution, where the buds are hotter, so get more water/food than the leaf. We warm the room, to ensure the buds get what they needed, but at the same time, the leaves get too much.

This might show in the morphology, where a top bud doesn't increase it's share of the water, though running warmer.
It might also show in a higher number of curling leaves.

It might show in the general stratospheric distribution. Which we see with more uniform bud sizes, and presumably what is on them.
Im fairly sure that buds being hotter than leaves is not really a Hps thing, that its a general thing in flowering cannabis.

At least in our grow our buds measure a little higher temps than plain leaves. And i think i remember seeing some of those FLIR or infrared pics with same higher temps buds under led.

My guess is that buds will have a slightly higher metabolic rate which means slightly higher temps. And that leaves having more evaporation also means lower temps, no matter what light. Have you seen any studies or evidence for led buds being same temps as leaves?
 

BerryManilow

Well-known member
LED + Full Spectrum UV + 1600ppm of CO2 in aeroponics.

Aero+LED.jpg

Aero.jpg


Headband on the right, The Berry front left, Blue Bands back left.


Blue Bands
Blue Bands.jpg

Blue Bands 2.jpg


The Berry
Berry.jpg

Berry cured nug.jpg
 

Ca++

Well-known member
Im fairly sure that buds being hotter than leaves is not really a Hps thing, that its a general thing in flowering cannabis.

At least in our grow our buds measure a little higher temps than plain leaves. And i think i remember seeing some of those FLIR or infrared pics with same higher temps buds under led.

My guess is that buds will have a slightly higher metabolic rate which means slightly higher temps. And that leaves having more evaporation also means lower temps, no matter what light. Have you seen any studies or evidence for led buds being same temps as leaves?


5 mins in, Bugbee talks about buds having less stomata than leaves, and greater density, leading to the temp difference.

He didn't really say anything about the light used, not being LED. However he is talking about over ambient gains for both leaf and bud. Which would be greater with HID than LED. Which is the picture I'm trying to paint. Similar to the other circumstance I mused over here, where the whole plant is actually seeing less stratospheric temperature differentiation. Here is bugbee taking that a step further, with different temps, even at the tops. Essentially we have warmed the whole plant, because the top was too cold. That's not directly true, but helps me relate to the overall higher water consumption, once at the required temperature. Along with distribution differences, that will effect morphology

@Crooked8 has a plant that shows high N in the upper leaves. Perhaps with HID, the top leaves would be cooler, and so not curl. If this stands as a good explanation, then ignoring the issue makes perfect sense.
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
If you stop feeding the troll they won't have anything to eat. Anyone not contributing positive vibes just block them..

NEM x SOWAHH x NEM. Grown under the 250$ China LED. I think it's dimmed to 700 watts. It's not on max wattage.
DSCN1635.JPG
 
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PadawanWarrior

Well-known member
If you stop feeding the troll they won't have anything to eat. Anyone not contributing positive vibes just block them..

NEM x SOWAHH x NEM. Grown under the 250$ China LED. I think it's dimmed to 700 watts. It's not on max wattage.
View attachment 19074252
Nothing wrong with Chinese lights until your house burns down, :ROFLMAO:

Just kidding. I have a Mars SP 3000 I was given. It grows great buds. I do worry about those connectors though.
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Nothing wrong with Chinese lights until your house burns down, :ROFLMAO:
Having fire prevention for your indoor garden is a must no matter what lights you use.. I have Auto extinguishers in every room and in the tents. They're cheap and will save your house. To be honest the China LED has grown better plants than the $800 HLG Diablo.

20$


I use a big one of these in the main flower room. These are pricy
71dVlFZ9qpL._SL1500_.jpg
 
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PadawanWarrior

Well-known member
Having fire prevention for your indoor garden is a must no matter what lights you use.. I have Auto extinguishers in every room and in the tents. They're cheap and will save your house. To be honest the China LED has grown better plants than the $800 HLG Diablo.

20$


I use a big one of these in the main flower room. These are pricy
View attachment 19074267
Those Fire Balls are cool. I wonder if they've ever went off accidentally. I'm seriously going to consider those.
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I used 1 per 4x4 and 2 per 4 x 8. I screwed the basket to the metal poles. The main flower room also has 1 ball on ea wall= Peace of mind🤙
 

zachrockbadenof

Well-known member
Veteran
Having fire prevention for your indoor garden is a must no matter what lights you use.. I have Auto extinguishers in every room and in the tents. They're cheap and will save your house. To be honest the China LED has grown better plants than the $800 HLG Diablo.

20$


I use a big one of these in the main flower room. These are pricy
View attachment 19074267
where did u ge
Having fire prevention for your indoor garden is a must no matter what lights you use.. I have Auto extinguishers in every room and in the tents. They're cheap and will save your house. To be honest the China LED has grown better plants than the $800 HLG Diablo.

20$


I use a big one of these in the main flower room. These are pricy
View attachment 19074267
where did u get these ?? can't find em on amazon- thanks
 

Hiddenjems

Well-known member
Having fire prevention for your indoor garden is a must no matter what lights you use.. I have Auto extinguishers in every room and in the tents. They're cheap and will save your house. To be honest the China LED has grown better plants than the $800 HLG Diablo.

20$


I use a big one of these in the main flower room. These are pricy
View attachment 19074267
I have halon setup in mine. Suffocates the fire and it’s really clean. We use it in race cars and helicopters too.
 

mm4n

Well-known member
where did u get these ?? can't find em on amazon- thanks
I am considering a similar solution but with one extinguisher for the entire room.
In Spain I found this one: the 1 kg model should activate automatically at 68ºC (154ºF), while the 3 kg model activates at 79ºC (174ºF).
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I've had some scares with light related fires. When the new CMH DE bulbs came out I had 1 explode causing a fire on the pond liner I had on the floor. That was 15 years ago. Since then Fire prevention has been part of my indoor garden. It's risky not to include it. You can do a 10 x 10 room well for 100$.
 
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