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LED and BUD QUALITY

CannaT

starin' at the world through my rearview
IMG_20231126_172720261_HDR.jpg

Bruce Banner Led/hps combo.
Have to say when its colder terps are bit different like sugared up coffe/choco/muffin with diesel fumes and forest fruits.
 
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greyfader

Active member
i thought you guys might like to see the result of my lighting experiment. i used household 5000k and 2700k light bulbs with the diffusers cut off.

i used the 5000k throughout veg and up to the end of the third week of flower then switched them out for 2700k bulbs plus incandescent.

this is the first time i have been able to get hps size flowers using leds as the main part of the array.

the combined spectrum in flower looks something like this graph. the graph shows a generic 3000k led with a tungsten incandescent laid over it. i used 2700k and so it would show an even lower amount of blue.

as you can see the incandescent supplies more red, far-red, and infrared.

i still don't know what specific part of the spectrum or combination of spectrum caused the results.

it could have been just some far-red where before there was none. or i could have shifted the blue-red ratio farther to the red side. maybe the infrared triggered some type of hormonal response. or maybe it was a combination of all these things.
 

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Ca++

Active member
i thought you guys might like to see the result of my lighting experiment.
Only always.
What would another one cost me. I have this original piece here, showing the equal mixing of lumens from each lamp. A spectrum best explained, as the smooth incandescent lamp, ironing out the peaky nature of the LED. Studying the rising power of each, as we do with art, demands the drinking of more vineyards, until the LED just falls away. Leaving the GLS just getting in it's stride. With a lot more to give, as we move from the visible spectrum, off the right of the chart.
I will let you have a preview
3000k+gls.jpg

Were you getting a similar number of lumens from each? In theory, a 100w GLS lamp, to each 12w? of LED. What with them both being 1500lm lamps.

Your grow sets a high bar. IIRC about 1700umol. So you probably must use less GLS
 

LostTribe

Active member
Having problems in veg. Slow growth. I am starting to think its too much light or not enough. Thank you!

fc-e4800 @60%(is this too hight?)
4' over canopy

I dont have any deficiencies other than a little magnesium slight calcium on my trinity. The other is green green but small.

my HID side is also showing these deficiencies on older fan leaves. 600w hps.

75F
59RH

hydro
jacks321@2.4ec ph 5.7-6.1
RO a little potassium silicate
mr fulvic .5ml/gal

Appreciate you all!
LT
 
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Ca++

Active member
I realise some people offer advice by PM, when they don't want calling out. I prefer the plant talk where people can see it though. It's why we are here.

That light does 1000umol right below it, so if 60% is right, you have a lot of light at 600ppfd. Many people fail with 400ppfd, though how many hours, is a big issue (dli).
A plant which didn't build great leaves from the start, will loose them gradually under reasonable lighting. Even if the diet is corrected, they may not last. If you take such an under nourished plant and slam if with 600umol for 24 hours a day, it's not going to make it. I'm unsure what you are doing.

I'm not a jacks user, or even of something close. I did see some surprising figures recently though, regarding the 321 npk. It suggested I couldn't work at that. Your 600umol in grow suggests you may not get by with it either.
 
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Ca++

Active member
I realise some people offer advice by PM, when they don't want calling out. I prefer the plant talk where people can see it though. It's why we are here.

That light does 1000umol right below it, so if 60% is right, you have a lot of light at 600ppfd. Many people fail with 400ppfd, though how many hours, is a big issue (dli).
A plant which didn't build great leaves from the start, will loose them gradually under reasonable lighting. Even if the diet is corrected, they may not last. If you take such an under nourished plant and slam if with 600umol for 24 hours a day, it's not going to make it. I'm unsure what you are doing.

I'm not a jacks user, or even of something close. I did see some surprising figures recently though, regarding the 321 npk. It suggested I couldn't work at that. Your 600umol in grow suggests you may not get by with it either.
Is your Mg signs, stripes on older leaves? I guess so.
Are these stripes starting at the front of the leaf, perhaps after the tip burnt. Somewhat more white stripes than yellow. Jacks has enough Mg, that some don't use epsom, and tests have shown such levels to be damaging to some cannabis plants. I suspect you might be seeing K signs.
3.6 2.4 1.2 is just 142N and you might want a third more than that. It's where I would start, with more 3&2 but leave the 1 alone.
There is a mashup of imperial and metric there, that stops me giving some proper numbers. I would have to start from scratch. I wouldn't be scared of 50% more though, so saying 35% more is no big leap. Or reduce the light, if it's too big for you ;)
 

Rocket Soul

Active member
i thought you guys might like to see the result of my lighting experiment. i used household 5000k and 2700k light bulbs with the diffusers cut off.

i used the 5000k throughout veg and up to the end of the third week of flower then switched them out for 2700k bulbs plus incandescent.

this is the first time i have been able to get hps size flowers using leds as the main part of the array.

the combined spectrum in flower looks something like this graph. the graph shows a generic 3000k led with a tungsten incandescent laid over it. i used 2700k and so it would show an even lower amount of blue.

as you can see the incandescent supplies more red, far-red, and infrared.

i still don't know what specific part of the spectrum or combination of spectrum caused the results.

it could have been just some far-red where before there was none. or i could have shifted the blue-red ratio farther to the red side. maybe the infrared triggered some type of hormonal response. or maybe it was a combination of all these things.
Congrats on the completed grow, very nice. I was missing your grow journal. Also very nice to see the results in neutral light, the warmwhite leds mess with the colors.

Huge buds, incandesant supplement seems like it did the trick. Very thought worthy. Do you check wet weight vrs dry weight usually?
 

bloyd

Active member
i thought you guys might like to see the result of my lighting experiment. i used household 5000k and 2700k light bulbs with the diffusers cut off.

i used the 5000k throughout veg and up to the end of the third week of flower then switched them out for 2700k bulbs plus incandescent.

this is the first time i have been able to get hps size flowers using leds as the main part of the array.

the combined spectrum in flower looks something like this graph. the graph shows a generic 3000k led with a tungsten incandescent laid over it. i used 2700k and so it would show an even lower amount of blue.

as you can see the incandescent supplies more red, far-red, and infrared.

i still don't know what specific part of the spectrum or combination of spectrum caused the results.

it could have been just some far-red where before there was none. or i could have shifted the blue-red ratio farther to the red side. maybe the infrared triggered some type of hormonal response. or maybe it was a combination of all these things.
What was the ppfd, light hours and wattage for this round? Looks great 👍.
 

Rocket Soul

Active member
What was the ppfd, light hours and wattage for this round? Looks great 👍.
 

greyfader

Active member
first, thank you all for the kind words. rather than answer individually i'll just describe the conditions.

there are 72 bulb positions on this light. during veg and up to the end of week 3 of flower i ran them all using 5000k light. that is 1008 watts using 14-watt bulbs. there were two lights in the room so i used 2 six-hour periods in veg. one on and one off all the time. maintained about 1200 umols ppfd for a DLI of approximately 50-52 moles per day. using one light on and one off also kept the temperature and rh more consistent

at the end of the third week of flower i switched to 66 14-watt 2700k bulbs and 6 25-watt tungsten incandescent appliance bulbs. 924 watts led and 150 watts incandescent for a total of 1074 watts.

also, i maintained about 1200 umols ppfd for a single 12-hour period for a DLI of 50-52 per day.

i used jack's 3-2-1 ratio but at different overall strengths. all input, no solution was removed from the system during the entire grow. the first two weeks i used the 3.6-2.4-1.2 grams per gal dose.

the rest of veg up through the end of week 3 of flower, the stretch period, i used 3-2-1 grams per gallon.

the rest of the flowering period i used 2.4-1.6-.08 grams per gallon. the last 10 days ph adjusted water only.

ph was maintained at between 6.0 and 6.5 using 85% phosphoric acid.

lights on temps typically 80-84f and lights off in flower 72-75f.

no co2 was supplemented here but my co2 monitor says that i got over 400 ppm throughout the grow.

i got 6978 grams of untrimmed wet flowers from 2 plants. I like measuring the wet weight anyway so i can monitor the dry down more accurately.

these were grown in a recirculating, closed-loop, soilless system known as the PPK using 6 gals of #2 perlite as the main body of the medium amended with 3 lbs worm castings and one 18 oz solo cup full of diatomaceous earth.

in the nutrient solution, with each 30 gal load mixed, i used 30ml of mr fulvic 1ml per gallon, and a heaping teaspoon of maxicrop kelp powder per 30 gals.

i think i learned more about bulb spacing during this grow. the spacing i used here is not ideal and used an unnecessary amount of electric energy.

i'm about to move and will design more efficient arrays when i build my grow area.

that's all, folks!
 
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Ca++

Active member
Oh my god Jacks321 is a reference to the bottles used, not the NPK.
He's also using KSi...
The meaning of my words, is out of your reach.

Every dog should have it's day. Could you hurry up about it. The waiting is just as tedious for us as you. Do you need a gimme?

Banana's grow on hooks in Walmart
 

LostTribe

Active member
I realise some people offer advice by PM, when they don't want calling out. I prefer the plant talk where people can see it though. It's why we are here.

That light does 1000umol right below it, so if 60% is right, you have a lot of light at 600ppfd. Many people fail with 400ppfd, though how many hours, is a big issue (dli).
A plant which didn't build great leaves from the start, will loose them gradually under reasonable lighting. Even if the diet is corrected, they may not last. If you take such an under nourished plant and slam if with 600umol for 24 hours a day, it's not going to make it. I'm unsure what you are doing.

I'm not a jacks user, or even of something close. I did see some surprising figures recently though, regarding the 321 npk. It suggested I couldn't work at that. Your 600umol in grow suggests you may not get by with it either.
This mars was at the ceiling about 4' over canopy at ~75%. I have since lowered it to about 3' and reduced it to 50%. Plenty of fresh air too as I vent out. On this side its mostly slower growth. Trinity has magnesium deficiency on lower leaves with a bit of spotting that could be calcium deficiency.

75F
59RH
RO Jacks321 @1200ppm (500) 2.4ec (I discovered that my blue lab ec meter was shot the shit and for the time being I have a cheapo while I await a proper probe)
Ph 5.6-6.1 the last few days (again Blue lab ph meter is acting like it may also be shot, the cheapo I have may also be off as I busted out the old GH drops and it is orange showing 5.0. I was trying to get to 6.1-6.2 for a while to help with Mg.

Also dialed down my HPS on the other side to 400w just in case it was too much light and I am giving them 48 hours to see if theres any improvement. Plants are growing but SLOW.

If things do not improve in 48 hours, I read your post and considering flushing once more and running either maxigro or maxibloom for a few days to see if that does any good. I have both on hand. I am in veg oh ALSO ON 18/6.

I asked for PM as I often forget where I posted q's but will watch the thread. Thanks everyone! LT

PS I'll get some leaf pics up tomorrow if I can but coming down with stomach flu I think.
 

LostTribe

Active member
I realise some people offer advice by PM, when they don't want calling out. I prefer the plant talk where people can see it though. It's why we are here.

That light does 1000umol right below it, so if 60% is right, you have a lot of light at 600ppfd. Many people fail with 400ppfd, though how many hours, is a big issue (dli).
A plant which didn't build great leaves from the start, will loose them gradually under reasonable lighting. Even if the diet is corrected, they may not last. If you take such an under nourished plant and slam if with 600umol for 24 hours a day, it's not going to make it. I'm unsure what you are doing.

I'm not a jacks user, or even of something close. I did see some surprising figures recently though, regarding the 321 npk. It suggested I couldn't work at that. Your 600umol in grow suggests you may not get by with it either.
This mars was at the ceiling about 4' over canopy at ~75%. I have since lowered it to about 3' and reduced it to 50%. Plenty of fresh air too as I vent out. On this side its mostly slower growth. Trinity has magnesium deficiency on lower leaves with a bit of spotting that could be calcium deficiency.

One thing is I am not sure I am mixing the jacks right but this is what the package says:
3.78g/gal Part A
2.57g/gal CalNit
.99 g/gal Epsom Salt
I mixed all 3 into separate 1 gallons at x100 (378g, 257g, 99g) I have been adding equal parts of all 3 of these concentrated solutions.

75F
59RH
RO Jacks321 @1200ppm (500) 2.4ec (I discovered that my blue lab ec meter was shot the shit and for the time being I have a cheapo while I await a proper probe)
Ph 5.6-6.1 the last few days (again Blue lab ph meter is acting like it may also be shot, the cheapo I have may also be off as I busted out the old GH drops and it is orange showing 5.0. I was trying to get to 6.1-6.2 for a while to help with Mg.

Also dialed down my HPS on the other side to 400w just in case it was too much light and I am giving them 48 hours to see if theres any improvement. Plants are growing but SLOW.

If things do not improve in 48 hours, I read your post and considering flushing once more and running either maxigro or maxibloom for a few days to see if that does any good. I have both on hand. I am in veg oh ALSO ON 18/6.

I asked for PM as I often forget where I posted q's but will watch the thread. Thanks everyone! LT

PS I'll get some leaf pics up tomorrow if I can but coming down with stomach flu I think.
 

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