Huge Strain Lineage

[satva]

No the 3 Colombian varieties were straight from Colombia in the late 60's they had zero Thai in them. Original Haze was pure Colombian.
Other Haze hybrids did have Thai and S Indian, but they were sold as Hybrids,
The different Colombian used in Skunk also had no Thai in it. I got the seeds from a Colombian import.
They are confused and were not there, I was. Few folks can tell what an un-named bud is from geographically, even fewer can tell with hybrids.
-SamS

Hello SamS,

How many geno/phenotypes can you find in Original Haze? These are aromas that have been noted in on-line grow reports on 1970's Haze / Colombian ~ 15 geno/phenotypes.

Metallic metal shop
Citrus orange lemon lime
Incense frankincense sandalwood
Root beer root herbs(Narcotic and psychedelic high, often noted as jungle or lowland Colombia sassafras
coke cola vanilla floral citrus
Old leather
Fuel methane gas
Tree resins pine cedar
Spicy pepper cardamom
Stinky sour old socks
Sweet tropical fruit guavas papaya
Herbal Sage Rosemary Oregano
Mint wintergreen
Hash Haze
Chemical Dangerous Poison

or from my neigborhood describing the early 1970's Colombian by color. I know in Colombia theyused the place of origin to define the various Colombians .

Highland Colombian Red -
Lowland Colombian Red
Colombian Highland Green
Colombian Santa Marta Highland Gold -
Santa Marta Gold - La Mona (gold) some is probably lowland or coastal grown
Highland Colombian - Gold / Light Green -
Colombian Rainbow - multi-colored
Colombian Purple - Purple Corinth,
Dark brown/Dark Green Colombian - stronger denser high
Colombian Black - strong dense high
Green Coastal Colombian -
Colombian Silver
Colombian Maroon - maroon plant, flowers and leaves
Colombian Mangobiche - Highland and a lowland grown
Colombian Mono Rojo - gold / light green

Also I remember your conversations with Tom Hill before he disappeared from IcMag. I remember Tom saying he selected "Tom Hill Haze" from Original Haze. Is that how you remember it? There is the same speculation on "Tom Hill Haze" that it contained Thai genetics and was not a pure 1970 Colombian NLD hybrid.

 

[Nexus7]

Also I remember your conversations with Tom Hill before he disappeared from IcMag. I remember Tom saying he selected "Tom Hill Haze" from Original Haze. Is that how you remember it? There is the same speculation on "Tom Hill Haze" that it contained Thai genetics and was not a pure 1970 Colombian NLD hybrid.

Tom got the seeds from a seedbank (Positronics?) and not direct from Sam iirc.

There's always the possibility that O.Haze was reproduced and possibly contaminated at the seedbank or even by Tom after it left Sam's hands.

Do people notice Thai pheno's in the O.Haze that's being or was being sold at Posi, Seedsman or TFD?

What are the main differences between Colombian and Thai NLD Sativas anyway?

Peace,

N7

 

[satva]

Colombian and Thai have different highs. Most of Colombia is close to the equator.

Yes, Tom Hill originally obtained his Haze from Positronics. Positronics obtained Original Haze from SamS mid-1980's. Tom Hill selected his haze for several generations up until the early 2000's. That's the question I'm asking. Because Tom selected for several generations he found many more Colombian geno/phenotypes expressions that the 3 Original Colombians SamS started with. Will all the 15 or so Colombians we smoked in the early 1970's show up today in Original Haze and Tom Hill Haze.

I assume if someone does what Tom Hill did and selected Original Haze for several generations they'd find 15 or so geno/pheno-types of 1970's Colombian. Some would be recessive, and not expressions of an equatorial NLD long flowering sativa. Its not exactly easy growing an equatorial sativa in the closet.

Just because people find a WLD expression doesn't mean its not pure 1970's Colombian. It's my understanding that Original Haze is the best expression of the late 1960' and early 1970's Colombian that was available in the USA. Tom Hill Haze would be a good expression of European Hazes developed from the mid-1980's to the early 2000's.

Don't quote me on this - I'm not a historian or a haze philosopher.

 

[Nexus7]

@satva

I don't think being able to find 15 different aromas in THH necessarily equates to 15 geno or phenotypes being present in Original Haze.

Remember aroma is a highly subjective thing and environment plays a big part in the expression of terpenes. Also aroma is just one small character of a plants entire phenotype.

Possibly it's just recombination of the terpene synthases which may increase the numbers of perceived aromas.

Also we have to take into account the three 1960's Colombian parental lines may not have been homogenous or true breeding to begin with.

I personally feel wide leaf phenos in tropical Sativa types is a clear indication of impurity. But that's just my personal opinion.

I don't really see why people seek out the O.Haze when looking for an 70's Colombian type. People seem to question it's purity recently. Not because the source was not pure but because the seedbanks have done something with it since receiving it.

We currently have available Punto Rojos, Mangobiches, Old Timers Haze, '72 Colombian Gold all of which have positive reports and are seemingly authentic.

Just my ramblings too. I'm no expert.

Peace,

N7

 

[Nexus7]

Questions for Sam_S

Questions for Sam_S

Do you note any wide leaf types in your Original Haze line?

When was the last time Original Haze seeds were produced that you can be 100% confident or it's purity?

Were seeds or parental plants given to Seedman, Positronics and The Flying Dutchman?

Am I right in thinking once seeds or parental plants were passed you had no control or oversight on what happened to them afterwards?

Peace,

N7

 

[satva]

Nexus7,

If you werre smoking the best of the best colombian in the late 1960's and early 1970's you'll remember 15 or so varieties of Colombian.

Today, the source doesn't matter ~ Punto Rojo, Mangobiche, Old Timer's Haze, Colombian Gold, Colombian Black. Original Haze and Old Timer's Haze have growth traits more like a 1970's Colombian. Other seedbanks have selected and developed Haze. You can select
2008 versions of Punto Rojo, Colombian Gold, Mangobiche, and Dutch Seedbank Hazes for wider leaves, or you can select them for extreme NLD growth structure.

2008 Mangobiche selected for WLD will smoke different than 2008 Mangobiche selected for NLD. If you are concerned with purity - from the varieties you mention simply select the extreme NLD long flowering plants and cull the WLD earlier flowering plants.

Even small scale growers can select 6 - 8 phenotypes from each of the varieties you mention. That's the question. How many of those varieties do you need to grow to select 15 unique expressions of 1970's Colombian? Selecting from 30 seeds of each variety.

If you are growing hundreds or thousands of plants it's easier to find the diversity.

 

[Nexus7]

Sorry Satva but that's not how genetics works

You won't be getting the same 15 or so phenos, genos or varietals you remember from the 1970's by growing out modern Colombian lines you'll get a whole bunch of new phenotypes

Once genetic recombination takes place there's little mechanism for it to reverse.

Plus you would at least need to first accurately define all the characteristics (not just aroma and color) of those 1970's Colombian varieties you mention which is impossible to do retrospectively. They were just never clearly documented.

By your logic we have at least five color types and 15 terpene profiles so that's already 75 possible phenotype combinations and we haven't even taken flowering time or width or narrowness of leaf into account.

Peace,

N7

 

[satva]

Yes, select the 15 Colombian genotypes based on the highs. Then from that select the highs you prefer. You have to first smoke Colombian Gold to know if you like the high of Colombian Gold more than the high of Colombian Black. I like Punto Rojo- green with red points, Colombian Gold and the Colombian Red with the clear euphoric trippy high.

I'm not a preservationist I have no interest in preserving the 1970's Colombian Red / Brown that many people refer to as a narcotic high.


Punto Rojo x Colombian Gold is a high I like. You should be able to blind test and select the Punto Rojo high and the Colombian Gold high. We did a fair amount of blind smoke testing of Colombian in the 1970's. My best friend always had 6 - 8 types of the best of the best Colombian from the mid-1960's to the late 1970's.

If you can associate the highs you like with terpenes that's good. I know terpenes and aromas are not the same thing.

 

[Nexus7]

Well I can easily understand selecting for a particular high I can't understand why you would need to complicate that any further?

I'd very much like to hear the specific characteristics of each of the 15 highs you mention and which of the Colombian genotypes they relate to?

In any case it seems we are looking for a similar kind of high. In my case a happy, euphoric, mood and sense elevating high with no ceiling or burn out. Any ideas which Colombian varietal would be best to search through for that kind of high?

Whose Punto Rojo and Colombian Gold are you running? Any luck finding the high you're seeking yet?

Peace,

N7

 

[satva]

In my case a happy, euphoric, mood and sense elevating high with no ceiling or burn out. Any ideas which Colombian varietal would be best to search through for that kind of high?

Whose Punto Rojo and Colombian Gold are you running? Any luck finding the high you're seeking yet?

Peace,

N7

Cannabiogen Punto Rojo has a sweet tropical fruit pheno-type with a happy, euphoric, mood and sense elevating high with no burnout.

There is a Colombian Gold / light green in Cannabiogen Punto Rojo that is more trippy. 10% trippy phenos of Underground Seed Collective ColJam - 1980 Colombian Gold x 1970 Jamaican Lambsbread. Less euphoric, but more cerebral and trippy. Tom Hill Haze and Old Timer's Haze all have the high I like. Old Timer's Haze is 100% Colombian with about 50% Colombian gold. You can select Colombian gold from these two. The light green phenos of Tom Hill Haze are good.

Cannabiogen Punto Rojo - green with red points has a classic 1970's euphoric trippy high.

 

[Nexus7]

Cannabiogen Punto Rojo has a sweet tropical fruit pheno-type with a happy, euphoric, mood and sense elevating high with no burnout.

There is a Colombian Gold / light green in Cannabiogen Punto Rojo that is more trippy. 10% trippy phenos of Underground Seed Collective ColJam - 1980 Colombian Gold x 1970 Jamaican Lambsbread. Less euphoric, but more cerebral and trippy. Tom Hill Haze and Old Timer's Haze all have the high I like. Old Timer's Haze is 100% Colombian with about 50% Colombian gold. You can select Colombian gold from these two. The light green phenos of Tom Hill Haze are good.

Cannabiogen Punto Rojo - green with red points has a classic 1970's euphoric trippy high.

Thanks very much for that info!

That sweet tropical fruit PR sounds just what I'm after!

I already have a pack of Colombian Gold on hand so hopefully I can find a few redder and sweet tropical types in that.

Any chance you can help me ID which Colombian pheno type this male is?

Peace,

N7

 

[satva]

Could be a Colombian Gold? There are several growth structures in Colombian Gold varieties. Looks a bit like a Haze / NLD selection from SamS ~ (Haze x Skunk) x (Haze x Skunk).

Punto Rojo has the sweet tropical fruit phenotypes, Colombian Gold is more earthy with tree and root aromas - pepper, frankincense, sandalwood - root beer herbs sassafras.

Punto Rojo and Colombian Gold are different highs, but make good combinations in crosses or as a smoking blend.

SamS ~ (Haze x Skunk) x (Haze x Skunk).

 

[Nexus7]

Yes indeed it was from a CG seed pack! The flowers gave the plant a slight gold aura from a distance but close up you can definitely see some magenta coloring on the flowers and stems. So wasn't sure if it qualified as a pure gold varietal.

Definitely some similarities with your HazexSkunk selection there!

Peace,

N7

 

[satva]

Yes, there is something else in that Colombian Gold family tree tha tyou show, perhaps closer to 1981 Original Haze x Skunk #1,not a 1960/1970 Colombian P1/P2 Landrace like Original Haze. Original Haze growth structure will be more wild and natural, capable of growing to the size of small two story houses with 8 foot flower stalks. Not something tha is easy to grow in the closet,

These Colombian plant you show is often described as Santa Marta Gold or Coastal Colombian Gold. They are grown near the equator with more than one crop per year.

The Highland Colombian Gold is one of the best. ColJam used both a Highland Colombian Gold and a lowland Santa Marta Goldthe flwoering duration will vary from 13 weeks to 20 weeks of flowering. With the high of the NLD long flowering sometimes being very trippy. The Highland Colombian Gold will have growth structure more like a Highland Punto Rojo and be grown one crop per year planted in February March and harvested in late December / January.

Punto Rojo will be more sweet tropical fruit and haze aromas with an euphotic and trippy high and Highland Colombian Gold will be pepper, frankincense, sandalwood and root herbs, sassafras with an intense cerebral and trippy high. Colombian Gold high can be trippy to the point that it is a bit intense for everyday smoke. Trips out my nervous system to the point of disrupting my sleep and sense of relaxation.

It you want to explore the universe ~~~ Highland Colombian Gold is the ticket to paradise.

 

[Nexus7]

Yes, there is something else in that Colombian Gold family tree tha tyou show, perhaps closer to 1981 Original Haze x Skunk #1,not a 1960/1970 Colombian P1/P2 Landrace like Original Haze. Original Haze growth structure will be more wild and natural, capable of growing to the size of small two story houses with 8 foot flower stalks. Not something tha is easy to grow in the closet,

That's not what I was wanting to hear It was grown outdoors but planted very late in the season and started to drop pollen just 5 weeks later. It did get badly root-bound though. That said it did make it to four months of age and into late December before it died. So are you 100% sure they cannot be pure Colombian?

They were supposed to be USC - '72 Colombian Gold. They were sold out at ******s and Alchimia so I tried another seedbank. It came in the breeder pack but could have easily been copied just a "deal" bag with a paper square logo.

Peace,

N7

 

[satva]

with 1970 Colombian / Haze the most important characteristic is being able to grow it properly and get good strength and flowering structure.

Jahgreenlabel / Underground Seed Company selected three Colombian Gold varieities. The 1972 Colombian Gold is Colombian. You can select good representations of NLD Colombian Gold from any of them.

USC 1980 Colombian Gold had some shorter flowering phenotypes that didn't smoke like a Haze or 1970 Colombian. There is good documentation of USC Colombian gold varieties on the internet, you can compare your selections to the selections of other growers of the 1972 Colombian Gold. Colombian Gold has two main geno/phenotypes. One has long slender drooping NLD leaves similar to Punto Rojo leaf and growth structure that is very brachy and one like you show, a more upright leaves, serrated leaf, and less branchy.

If the high is similar to Original Haze its probably pure enough.

 

[Nexus7]

No doubt the '72 CG from JGL is highly regarded and multiple online grower reports attest to it's authenticity.

I'm just not sure the bank I got mine from was legit. It was sold out elsewhere so I had little other options. It did seem a little odd that in just 5 weeks it could go from seed to dropping it's first pollen.

Hopefully it's just a bonsai version due to being rootbound of the more upright and less branchy phenotype you speak of and I'm just being a little paranoid.

I guess I'll just have to grow them out and see how they smoke.

Peace,

N7

 

[psilocybevybe]

No doubt the '72 CG from JGL is highly regarded and multiple online grower reports attest to it's authenticity.

I'm just not sure the bank I got mine from was legit. It was sold out elsewhere so I had little other options. It did seem a little odd that in just 5 weeks it could go from seed to dropping it's first pollen.

Hopefully it's just a bonsai version due to being rootbound of the more upright and less branchy phenotype you speak of and I'm just being a little paranoid.


Hey there Nexus7 ,which cg did you buy ?

 

[Montuno]

Monkey Haze -F2
DC x OH X DC x OH ...very simple formula

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X18 n+1 pakistani pure idica

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Califa me hablaba mucho de la Monkey Haze, pero yo nunca la llegué a probar...
La que sí cultive fue la Bubblehaze de Jeep (con una hembra Haze seleccionada por ti, y un macho Bublegumn por Leocadius, creo?), pero todos salieron machos... (De.S73 muestra aquí en ICMAG algunos híbridos que ha hecho con algunos Jeep's Bubblehaze que le pasé, por cierto...)

 

[farmerlion]

Hello all, for some time I've been trying to find out which Thai geographical representation was used in the original Casey Jones. Most resources state an unknown Thai if they say anything about the lineage at all.

I understand that there is a certain amount of smoke and mirrors to protect one's investment. I'm more interested in studying the known traits of the Casey Jones. Having a P1 entry will help me be better organized. Defining the onset flowering dates in natural light cycle with natural lighting. Is my goal in a nutshell. Working with early onset of flowering Thai genetics will save me years in selections of random genetics.
peace farmerlion