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Germany to legalize cannabis

Switcher56

Comfortably numb!
yep. I´ve always suspected pharma companies and the amount of taxes they pay. not just in germany, but many other countries too.
Aaaaah, the greed of man... They did the same thing with the ecig industry, which have saved lives. Now we have children less than 13 vaping. It was never intended for them.

In 2012, Europe spent $12 Billion (with a B, (the movie pentagon wars)) on the treatment of smoking related illness. Big Tobacco would get you hook with their chemical cocktail and Big Pharma was just around the corner with nicorettes and the like, that didn't work and you start smoking again and, around, round we go. Yes, I was an activist.

Presently, Nova Scotia are charging a 25% tax, on top of the 15% (normal sales tax on all hardware. We were talking about this crap in 2010.

Anything that produces revenue for the government? :( :unsure:
 

Cuddles

Well-known member
Here´s another article from Forbes with a fair bit legal-babble and Germanys new official flag. Way to go! ;)


Why Germany Is Scaling Back Plans To Legalize Cannabis​


Hemp Parade 2018

11 August 2018, Germany, Berlin: A German flag with a stylized hemp plant is fluttering in he wind ... [+]

picture alliance via Getty Images
Germany is set to scale back its initial plans to legalize cannabis amid legal hurdles at the European level.




After an initial optimism signaled by Health Minister Karl Lauterbach, who announced a bill to legalize cannabis in the coming weeks following "very good feedback" from the European Commission, Germany has recently announced to revise its plans on how to regulate the legal industry.






Lauterbach announced last week the will to introduce a revised version of the plan to legalize cannabis.




This decision was likely made to make the proposal more acceptable under EU regulations, as a more comprehensive plan for legalizing cannabis sales throughout the country would not comply with these regulations.






As per the initial proposal, individuals aged 18 and above would have been permitted to possess 20 to 30 grams of cannabis, which they could buy from federally authorized stores and, potentially, pharmacies. Additionally, people would have been allowed to cultivate up to three plants for personal consumption, following specific guidelines to prevent minors from accessing them.


But now, the revised policy reported by local news outlets would allow restricted cannabis sales under a regional pilot program for a duration of four years, similar to programs recently implemented in Switzerland and the Netherlands.


This approach would enable authorities to evaluate the effects of reform in both urban and rural areas. If the trial is successful, it may be extended to other regions of the country.


In short, Germany's revised plan aims to avoid breaching EU regulations by adopting a pilot project for the sale of cannabis products, inspired by the Swiss model, and by decriminalizing cannabis possession and domestic cultivation, inspired by Malta's recent legislation, as well as by establishing cannabis social clubs similar to those in Spain, which don't require EU approval.




While the details of the cultivation rules are still being worked out, sources indicate that the proposal may allow individuals to possess between 20 and 30 grams of cannabis. Additionally, non-commercial growers could potentially establish cannabis clubs like those in Spain.




The day before the updated proposal was revealed, Germany's Social Democratic Party, a member of the traffic light coalition, voiced skepticism regarding the initial plan. The party stated that it did not believe "comprehensive legislation is evidently feasible in the near future due to European Law."


Germany's plan to legalize cannabis is essential in understanding how other EU member states can move toward legalizing adult-use cannabis, as it is expected to set a precedent for how to do so within European legal frameworks.




Jason Adelstone, a lawyer at Vicente LLP, a law firm specializing in cannabis and psychedelics, explained that other countries that have legalized cannabis for recreational purposes, such as Canada and Uruguay, have interpreted international treaties in a way that enables them to legalize cannabis based on the health, safety, and well-being of their citizens, without repercussions at the international level.


However, the situation in Germany is different due to its membership in the EU.


Germany is bound by specific regulations that may make it difficult to legalize cannabis, and violating these rules could result in severe consequences for the country.


Adelstone explained that if Germany were to breach EU regulations, it could face economic sanctions.


The severity of the consequences would depend on the discussions that take place throughout the process, which could be lengthy. Negotiations with other member states would likely occur to avoid a formal hearing, and the outcome of these talks would determine the extent of the sanctions imposed on Germany.




The Schengen Agreement, which established an area in which internal border checks have mostly been eliminated, would not pose a threat to Germany's legalization plans because the original cannabis legalization plan called for the production of cannabis within the country's borders and prohibited imports and exports.


However, the main obstacle to Germany's plan is the Council Framework Decision 2004/757/JHA, which requires all EU countries to take action to penalize any deliberate actions related to drug trafficking and precursors.


Adelstone explained that the EU framework decision requires member states to ensure that cannabis production, manufacture, extraction, and sale are punishable in their countries. However, there is a debate over whether Germany's cannabis legalization plan would be deemed legitimate, particularly in relation to full commercialization and retail sales complying with UN law, whereas social club models seen in Spain may fall under the framework decision.




Another challenge for Germany is that as part of the EU framework, member states are required to comply with UN law. Therefore, the commercialization of adult-use cannabis is strictly prohibited under the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotics Drugs.


"The only way a country could move forward under UN law is under recognized exceptions. Those exceptions can include amending the treaties or removing cannabis from the treaties. But neither of those are realistic," Adelstone said.


However, there are few international legal options available to Germany to regulate the sale of cannabis products for recreational use that have legal justifications.




"The two most realistic options are controversial but have legal justifications," Adleston said.


One such option is inter se modification, a procedure permitted under Article 41 of the 1969 Vienna Convention.


The inter se modification procedure allows two countries that have signed the Single Convention to enter into a separate agreement between themselves as long as they maintain the intent of the original treaty.


Adelstone cited Canada and Uruguay as examples of two countries that could enter into an inter-state agreement for the international trade of cannabis between them, allowing for adult-use cannabis sales without violating the Single Convention.




Another option for Germany would be to withdraw from the Single Convention, make a reservation for cannabis, and then re-accede.


However, if one-third of the countries vote against their withdrawal, Germany would be prevented from doing so.


Adelstone mentioned the case of Bolivia, which withdrew from the conventions in 2011 regarding the coca plant, then re-acceded in 2013 after making a reservation for the plant in its natural state, no longer requiring compliance with the Single Convention.


Both options require time to achieve in the short term, so the scaled-back German plan, which is expected to be announced as a bill in the first quarter of 2023, appears to be the more feasible short-term plan.




However, the revised plan may require giving up the sale of cannabis products temporarily, with the ultimate aim of achieving full legalization, akin to the state-level legalization in the United States.


Adelstone suggests that although there may be further challenges at the European level, the proposed options for fully legalizing cannabis in Germany could ultimately allow for the sale of cannabis products in the country.


"Germany wants to fully legalize cannabis. I hope they provide the legal justification we were hoping for. It's not a simple process, but interstate modification and withdrawn recession are legally justified," he said.

 

GenghisKush

Active member
However, the main obstacle to Germany's plan is the Council Framework Decision 2004/757/JHA, which requires all EU countries to take action to penalize any deliberate actions related to drug trafficking and precursors.

Seems to me that if home grow were to become legal, and all commerce of cannabis were illegal (no sales), this problem might go away.
 

Ca++

Well-known member
The UK is one of the biggest exporters of extracts globally. It's been said, the very biggest. Being in the EU didn't stop that opp. Run by the prime ministers husband.

I think it depends who you know. Many neighbours will be happy to watch. Interested in the outcome.




Let's all chill, afaik there ain't much we can do at the moment..
When will you do something?
I'm thinking it's not too late to ensure people know the score. We are running out of time though. Weeks they are saying now. Then we will be seeing more of my predictions coming true. Must we though. Can't we make sure other smokers understand the lessons of history.
 

LHC

Active member
For me it seems that Germany found a good solution with decrim of home grown and use/possession. That will probably lead to social clubs and fairly big legal grow ops.
 

Cuddles

Well-known member

These European countries are pushing to legalize weed — but the EU is not on board​

Published Thu, May 11 20231:31 AM EDTUpdated Fri, May 12 202311:35 AM EDT
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Karen Gilchrist@_karengilchrist
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Key Points
  • Calls to legalize cannabis are mounting across Europe, as a growing number of countries seek to replicate progressive moves by Canada and parts of the United States.
  • The Czech Republic’s national drug coordinator last week that cannabis should be treated as other substances under his purview, such as tobacco and alcohol.
  • Proposals from governments in Germany to the Netherlands face pushback from the European Union and longstanding conservative views.
A protester smokes a marijuana cigarette in Madrid, Spain, during the demonstration during the world march for the legalization of marijuana.

A protester smokes a marijuana cigarette in Madrid, Spain, during a march for the legalization of marijuana. From improving public health to increasing tax revenues and reducing taboos around medical marijuana, the merits of a legal market are numerous, advocates told an industry event in London last week.
Sopa Images | Lightrocket | Getty Images
Calls to legalize cannabis are mounting across Europe, as a growing number of countries seek to replicate progressive moves by Canada and parts of the U.S. to greenlight the drug.
From improving public health to increasing tax revenues and reducing taboos around medical marijuana, the merits of a legal market are numerous, advocates told industry event Cannabis Europa in London last week.

That’s despite longstanding pushback from critics, who argue that legalization leads to more crime, addiction and health risks.
“We know what works is a regulated market,” Jindřich Vobořil, the Czech Republic’s national drug coordinator, said Tuesday.
Vobořil said it’s high time that cannabis is treated the same as other regulated items under his purview, such as tobacco and alcohol.
“We know what doesn’t work is prohibition. We see it with alcohol, we see it with tobacco, we see it with gambling,” he added.

A growing crop​

The Czech Republic is among half a dozen European countries that have in recent months announced plans to legalize the plant under radical new reforms.

Prague said last year it was drafting a bill to legalize the drug for adult use, marking the country’s most dramatic step forward since personal possession was permitted in 2010.
It followed Germany, which in October published proposals to greenlight the consumption and sale of cannabis — a plan that, if passed, would make it the world’s largest regulated national marijuana market.
It’s very important the Netherlands takes the next and final step. This is legalizing the growth of cannabis.
Dorien Rookmaker
member of the European Parliament for the Netherlands
Elsewhere, Luxembourg has passed a law allowing residents to grow marijuana for personal use; Malta has greenlit private “cannabis clubs”; and Switzerland, a non-EU country, has approved a trial of the drug’s sale and consumption in Zurich.
Even the Netherlands — where the growth and sale of the cannabis is technically criminalized though tolerated — plans to launch a pilot program to test the legal sale of the drug by the end of this year.
“It’s very important the Netherlands takes the next and final step,” Dorien Rookmaker, member of the European Parliament for the Netherlands, said. “This is legalizing the growth of cannabis.”

EU pushback​

Still, governments face pushback at the European Union level, with many so far struggling to produce a bill that adheres to EU laws, international drug treaties and public health concerns.
Though marijuana is permitted for medicinal purposes in a number of European states, the region has long taken a conservative approach to recreational weed, and some fear that legalization in one state could have knock-on effects for neighboring countries that oppose such moves.
The European Commission, the executive arm of the European Union, told CNBC that it could not comment on specific national discussions, but added that it was following developments closely.
“We are aware and we are following closely these developments in Member States, notably to understand the impact of changes in cannabis policies. This includes the impact on health, crime, environment or social aspects,” a spokesperson said in an emailed statement.
Activists demanding the legalization of marijuana, including on a flag of the European Union with its stars replaced by marijuana leaves, march past the Reichstag during the annual Hemp Parade in Berlin, Germany.

Activists demanding the legalization of marijuana march past the Reichstag during the annual Hemp Parade in Berlin, Germany.
Sean Gallup | Getty Images News | Getty Images
EU regulation requires member states to ensure that the sale of illicit drugs including cannabis is “punishable by effective, proportionate and dissuasive criminal penalties,” but it does not restrict personal consumption. Commercial legalization is also incompatible with international treaties, including the U.N.’s 1961 single convention on narcotic drugs, though countries like Canada and Uruguay have not faced serious consequences since moving to permit the drug.
As a result of EU feedback, Germany last month watered down its wide-reaching legalization plans, with Health Minister Karl Lauterbach noting that his initial proposal had “failed” and the revision would have to “go new ways.”
The updated legislation now aims to allow private consumption and distribution through non-profit groups, while also outlining the potential for a pilot project to test the sale of the drug in a small group of licensed shops.

‘I don’t think it’s stoppable’​

Such setbacks are not deterring proponents, however, who insist that legalization will improve safeguards within the industry, aid youth protection and combat illicit drug trafficking, without hurting the wider bloc.
“There are so many countries that see that prohibition policies have failed,” said Dirk Heitepriem, deputy chairman of the German Cannabis Business Industry Association.
“I’m very, very optimistic that long-term we’ll find a solution, find a framework for EU members to legalize cannabis while others remain on their position to say ‘no, this is not our cup of tea.’”
One potential route, according to Rookmaker, would be for members of the public to raise a European Citizens’ Initiative in support of legalization. That’s a mechanism which allows citizens to propose EU policies to the commission if they garner a minimum of 1 million votes.
In a 2022 study, more than half (55%) of people across eight European countries said they were in favor of legalizing weed, according to London-based strategic consultancy Hanway Associates.
“The legalization of cannabis could be the 101st Citizens Initiative,” said Rookmaker, noting that the commission is currently considering its 100th initiative, which calls for all European capitals to be connected via high-speed railway lines. “In this way, I think we can make a big step forward.”
That has policymakers like Vobořil hopeful that discussions of weed legalization within the EU will grow in the months to come.
“It’s necessary. It will happen at some point everywhere. I don’t think it’s stoppable,” Vobořil added.

 

Cuddles

Well-known member
The UK is one of the biggest exporters of extracts globally. It's been said, the very biggest. Being in the EU didn't stop that opp. Run by the prime ministers husband.

I think it depends who you know. Many neighbours will be happy to watch. Interested in the outcome.





When will you do something?
I'm thinking it's not too late to ensure people know the score. We are running out of time though. Weeks they are saying now. Then we will be seeing more of my predictions coming true. Must we though. Can't we make sure other smokers understand the lessons of history.
He also has a HUSBAND? :sneaky: What a naughty boy! Hope is wife is okay with it, lol :biglaugh:
 

Cuddles

Well-known member
For me it seems that Germany found a good solution with decrim of home grown and use/possession. That will probably lead to social clubs and fairly big legal grow ops.
the opposition wants to stop home grow from what I understand. And that´s basically what all growers want right - all over the world :canabis:
 

Mitsuharu

White Window
the opposition wants to stop home grow from what I understand. And that´s basically what all growers want right - all over the world :canabis:
For what i understand the opposition can't do something to stop the law...

Unfortunately there is no discussion about home growing right now. Personally i don't have high hopes about it and don't care much anyway, i'm doing my window and outdoor grow now!
:kos:

You're from a neighbor country?
 

Cuddles

Well-known member
For what i understand the opposition can't do something to stop the law...

Unfortunately there is no discussion about home growing right now. Personally i don't have high hopes about it and don't care much anyway, i'm doing my window and outdoor grow now!
:kos:

You're from a neighbor country?
they were gonna allow it. but were forced to peddle back.
 

Ca++

Well-known member
He also has a HUSBAND? :sneaky: What a naughty boy! Hope is wife is okay with it, lol :biglaugh:
Oh yeah, ex prime ministers husbands doing all the green, not the current one. It was a woman though. It's rich tea right now isn't it. Some woman before that, who took the chair from Boris, who had advisors that were open to cannabis reform talks, had they stayed around a bit longer. I think it was before Boris we had the woman staunchly against cannabis for all, which is a huge part of the family income, while it remains their choice who can do it.
 

Cuddles

Well-known member
Oh yeah, ex prime ministers husbands doing all the green, not the current one. It was a woman though. It's rich tea right now isn't it. Some woman before that, who took the chair from Boris, who had advisors that were open to cannabis reform talks, had they stayed around a bit longer. I think it was before Boris we had the woman staunchly against cannabis for all, which is a huge part of the family income, while it remains their choice who can do it.
yeah, the tories are... well..the tories and they simply prefer snorting cocaine,lol. The article I found below says Mays husband ie the company he works for is simply a shareholder, which is fine imo. As an employee you you can´t make those kind of decisions.
Anyone can invest in cannabis companies as far as I´m concerned. I would too if I had the cash ( but I´m all for it anyway :biggrin:

Difficult to keep up with british politics last year, the PMs came and went :biggrin:
The PM after Boris was Liz Truss. I didn´t know she was pro cannabis. Now I wish she´d stayed!!
Boris had the chance and time to do something but then again he was too busy attending parties, which then cost him his office as PM.

The tories will be out of power soon, I´m sure. People are pretty fed up with them and they´ve already lost a few seats...

 

Cuddles

Well-known member
I'm just glad we can grow it here. If the whole planet would bang the bong at the same time, just might change the current cesspool we live in.
yep, perhaps we should `force-feed´ it to all sucky politicians and screwed up people ! Can you imagine if everybody around the globe got the giggles at the same time and for an entire day? I wonder what this would sound like :biglaugh:
:giggle:
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
yep, perhaps we should `force-feed´ it to all sucky politicians and screwed up people ! Can you imagine if everybody around the globe got the giggles at the same time and for an entire day? I wonder what this would sound like :biglaugh:
:giggle:
can you imagine how crowded the roads would be from all of the DoorDash & pizza delivery guys running around? utter chaos...but still fun to think on.
 
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