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Fertilizing Wisely
- Thread starter MandalaMike
- Start date
paranoidalien
Member
Well, so I'd really like some advice if anyone knows anything about GH and coco. I'm using Head's formula and have a couple of Nirvana genetics as well as some bag seeds that are feeding full strength. The ppm of my solution (hanna) is about 700. I guess I should just dilute this with half water and use that for my mandala strains? Can I feed full strength because Head's formula is a little weak?
2tokesnpass
Member
im also doing a grow with GH and coco,,,if anyone has a good formula, please send it my way..
2tokes
2tokes
I
IE2KS_KUSH
Hmmm.....
I am just wondering, I also use FFOF, as well as FFLW for germing and seeds. How does it sound to use 5ml/gallon of CalMag w/ the RO water. I have always added that, and thought that I should. It puts my ppm at around 300ish I think, which is less than what my tap comes out at. So I wouldn't think it would be bad for them, and ensures they are getting all the micros. But after reading this, it makes me wonder if even that is necessary? 2cents? Anyone?
I am just wondering, I also use FFOF, as well as FFLW for germing and seeds. How does it sound to use 5ml/gallon of CalMag w/ the RO water. I have always added that, and thought that I should. It puts my ppm at around 300ish I think, which is less than what my tap comes out at. So I wouldn't think it would be bad for them, and ensures they are getting all the micros. But after reading this, it makes me wonder if even that is necessary? 2cents? Anyone?
Sweet Inc.
Member
This was kinda confusing me... I'm running Satori in coco, and have been feeding the plants quite lightly. They're 3 weeks old, I've been upping the nutes slowly. I have had big problems since it's my first coco grow, what really was slowing me down, it seems, was to low EC/PPM.
I started at 0.5EC, and gradually fed stronger in increments of 0.1-0.2EC. I was at 1.2 for a week, and the plants were suffering.
I upped my nutes yesterday, and this morning they're looking better then ever. The thing is, I'm at 1.5EC now
for relatively small plants. In ebb&flow, dwc, and such concentional hydro I've never gone so high with nutes so quick. And it looks like they wanna have more!
I'm still not sure if its some properties of the coco I'm using, or wtf...
I'm not trigger happy with my nutes, and I'm gonna keep the nute levels low, but this was really something I didn't even consider at first since the "feed lightly" mantra I've been going with my whole growing career. I think this might be a coco thing, there's really no other explanation at this point.
I started at 0.5EC, and gradually fed stronger in increments of 0.1-0.2EC. I was at 1.2 for a week, and the plants were suffering.
I upped my nutes yesterday, and this morning they're looking better then ever. The thing is, I'm at 1.5EC now
for relatively small plants. In ebb&flow, dwc, and such concentional hydro I've never gone so high with nutes so quick. And it looks like they wanna have more!I'm still not sure if its some properties of the coco I'm using, or wtf...
I'm not trigger happy with my nutes, and I'm gonna keep the nute levels low, but this was really something I didn't even consider at first since the "feed lightly" mantra I've been going with my whole growing career. I think this might be a coco thing, there's really no other explanation at this point.
TanzanianMagic
Well-known member
This is a fantastic thread. It is incredible that there is so little information on soil EC on the net.
It is also incredible that the nutrient producers would overstate nutrient strength to such a massive degee. Obviously they want to move more product first and foremost, but if they're consciously killing their customers plants, it would have repercussions on them in the long run (people giving up their hobbies).
I have a question though, and it is: what is the right EC for soil, including from seedling to flowering plant? Why are commercial soils so high in EC, and what is the alternative?
All the advice here makes intuitive sense, because I have grown another type of plant (hint: it is in the mint family) on peat/coco/worm castings, and only fed them a drop of Canna Vega at a time in R/O water, and they respond almost immediately with new growth. (I should have drawn the right conclusions from that.) I always knew that the recommended dosages (even the official feed schedule) was way too strong.
Are there plants (vegetables) that can be grown in high EC soil?
What is the EC of Fox Farm, because it is a commercial soil that is getting a lot of good press.
It is also incredible that the nutrient producers would overstate nutrient strength to such a massive degee. Obviously they want to move more product first and foremost, but if they're consciously killing their customers plants, it would have repercussions on them in the long run (people giving up their hobbies).
I have a question though, and it is: what is the right EC for soil, including from seedling to flowering plant? Why are commercial soils so high in EC, and what is the alternative?
All the advice here makes intuitive sense, because I have grown another type of plant (hint: it is in the mint family) on peat/coco/worm castings, and only fed them a drop of Canna Vega at a time in R/O water, and they respond almost immediately with new growth. (I should have drawn the right conclusions from that.) I always knew that the recommended dosages (even the official feed schedule) was way too strong.
Are there plants (vegetables) that can be grown in high EC soil?
What is the EC of Fox Farm, because it is a commercial soil that is getting a lot of good press.
transplant
Member
I have very high ph water, it actually eats the pipes!! lol
It sounds like you have cloromine in your water! Very bad stuff...You should google it.
It sounds like you have cloromine in your water! Very bad stuff...You should google it.
TanzanianMagic
Well-known member
I would like to make a contribution to this excellent thread.
What is missing from this discussion is the importance of bottom watering/feeding, as well as keeping EC levels low.
Plants have three types of roots. The lowest roots are for taking in water. The middle roots are for taking in nutrients, and the top roots are for excreting salts and other wastes.
This is why high salt levels and crusts will always form at the surface of the soil, and specifically around the stem. The reason is that the plant's foliage will deter most of the rainfall away from the stem, preventing the wast materials from washing down to the feeding roots again.
If you water from the top, you will continually re-introduce these salts to the feeding roots, massively stressing the plants and even poisoning them.
Obviously this will also have an influence not only on the salt levels in the soil, but the salt distribution throughout the soil.
Nitrifying bacteria, enzymes and mycorrhizal fungi will have an influence in breaking down the salts at the surface of the soil.
I think this is important in a discussion on EC levels in the soil.
You can bottom water just enough to keep the soil moist. If you add just a little water (say, 1/64th of the volume of the soil or less, depending on evaporation and water use, temp, etc.) to a saucer, you can water every day never even fear overwatering your plants. In effect you are watering the soil, not the plant, and are keeping the soil nice and moist, while maintaining much of the oxygen content.
At the same time, bottom watering does not compact the soil before the roots have established, or flush small particles and nutrients to the bottom of the pot or out of the pot.
The message is: bottom water as much as you can. It will make a huge difference (including mellowing the taste of your buds).
What is missing from this discussion is the importance of bottom watering/feeding, as well as keeping EC levels low.
Plants have three types of roots. The lowest roots are for taking in water. The middle roots are for taking in nutrients, and the top roots are for excreting salts and other wastes.
This is why high salt levels and crusts will always form at the surface of the soil, and specifically around the stem. The reason is that the plant's foliage will deter most of the rainfall away from the stem, preventing the wast materials from washing down to the feeding roots again.
If you water from the top, you will continually re-introduce these salts to the feeding roots, massively stressing the plants and even poisoning them.
Obviously this will also have an influence not only on the salt levels in the soil, but the salt distribution throughout the soil.
Nitrifying bacteria, enzymes and mycorrhizal fungi will have an influence in breaking down the salts at the surface of the soil.
I think this is important in a discussion on EC levels in the soil.
You can bottom water just enough to keep the soil moist. If you add just a little water (say, 1/64th of the volume of the soil or less, depending on evaporation and water use, temp, etc.) to a saucer, you can water every day never even fear overwatering your plants. In effect you are watering the soil, not the plant, and are keeping the soil nice and moist, while maintaining much of the oxygen content.
At the same time, bottom watering does not compact the soil before the roots have established, or flush small particles and nutrients to the bottom of the pot or out of the pot.
The message is: bottom water as much as you can. It will make a huge difference (including mellowing the taste of your buds).
TanzanianMagic
Well-known member
If the NPK percentages are 10-9-19 at the recommended dose of 5ml/litre, and you feed at 1ml/litre, then the NPK becomes about 2-2-4 (2-1.8-3.8).
Maybe weed (being a herb) likes that kind of low nutrient concentration, if the pH is right.
A lot of organic teas are that low.
I'm still looking for that perfect grow method that only needs watering instead of feeding.
igrowkushbitch
Well-known member
good stuff thanks mike
TanzanianMagic
Well-known member
TanzanianMagic
Well-known member
The biggest thing I took away from this article, and thank you Mandala Mike, is that you never fertilize on dry soil. This has made a HUUUUGEEEEE difference in my feeding.
I think you can get away with a lot of abuse when it comes to fertilizer dose, as long as you take that one thing into account. Today, I water to saturation (as much as possible without runoff). When I fertilize, I give 50% of clean (R/O) water first, and then the other 50% is nutrient solution. It is *nearly* impossible to overfertilize this way.
I am also using concentrated (and non-aerated) worm tea as a fertilizer , and it produces the greenest plants you have ever seen. Just put a cup of worm castings in a jar or bottle, add R/O water, and let it stand, with or without a cap on it. After a month or longer, pour it into another bottle while straining if necessary, and you have a fertilizer that will get you through vegging. Especially if you grow on hot soil, like the Subcool method. It is really all you need.
I count the amount of water going onto the plants, and water/feed to saturation. If it takes a 6 count before you get runoff, I would pour 3 counts with clean water, and 3 counts with a nutrient solution.
Basically I use a soilless mix of 1/3 perlite, 1/3 worm castings and 1/3 light mix (plagron or any other). I mix all the organic nutes into the bottom 50% of the container. Add a drainage layer (grow rocks are great). Always water to saturation point (as much as possible, without runoff).
This has all kinds of advantages. The growrocks air prune the roots, which keeps them from circing the bottom of the pot and getting crushed by the increasing weight of the growing plant. They create a zone of air where water cannot stand and damage the roots.
The hot layer guides the roots down - I now have consistently rootballs that do not have unexplored soil at the center, but are filled with fibrous roots. It is much better to guide roots with nutrients, than to prune them with scissors.
^ this
I find that watering with just water first, 25 - 50%, then added ferts really helps and is harder to over fert as well. I use bio bizz during veg and doing the above method has seen them eat the nutes up like nobodies business. My previous grow had a lot of issues with nutes, but I was putting ferts directly onto dry soil.
Is in deed a great tip.
BET
TanzanianMagic
Well-known member
BET,TanzanianMagic
Tnx for the info i didn't now that.
I was always doin it up side down. first fert then water. 50/50%
What i use for fert outdour is a pellets,compo for soil, . For watering i take access water from my compo that has been trapped in the bottom of the compo. I use compowater for tomatoes, peppers,ganja and pretty much everything dt needs aditional ferting.
Plan for next year is to ducument every watering, ferting, because i forgot how much and when did i water. result overwatering, overferting.
Tnx for the info i didn't now that.
I was always doin it up side down. first fert then water. 50/50%
What i use for fert outdour is a pellets,compo for soil, . For watering i take access water from my compo that has been trapped in the bottom of the compo. I use compowater for tomatoes, peppers,ganja and pretty much everything dt needs aditional ferting.
Plan for next year is to ducument every watering, ferting, because i forgot how much and when did i water. result overwatering, overferting.
TanzanianMagic
Well-known member
I think the soil nutrients would last longer if multi-mineral rock dusts (azomite, lava meal, bentonite meal, basalt meal) were added. It wouldn't overload them with nutrients like NPK, it just reduces the need for other nutrients a lot.
They also add silica, which is abundant outdoors (as finely ground sand), but is missing from soilless mixes.
They also add silica, which is abundant outdoors (as finely ground sand), but is missing from soilless mixes.
TanzanianMagic
Well-known member
Speaking of rich, black compost.
Check out the effect of wood chips in soil (compost/humus) creation:
(YOUTUBE) SuperSize Your Vegetables with Wood Chips & Rock Dust in Your Garden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEkFFRjDkvs
The woman in the end says they also throw in mushrooms (with spores I presume), to increase the rate of decomposition, maybe even creating mushroom compost. And add rock dust while plants are growing.
canna woop!
Member
It's true the worms are usually loaded in a ole chip pile, the trick i think is to mix the pile with other soils and leave them for a year, tending to it by keeping the moisture right and animals out
Justinsane
Member
"Ripen
This product from General Hydroponics is a real "calorie bomb" with NPK: 0-6-5 and 2,5% magnesium. It's almost a complete fertilizer. In cannabis cultivation Ripen is a good choice for fertilizing extreme Sativas that quickly respond to nitrogen with unwanted stretching, leafy buds, and retarded flowering. Ripen should be applied in the last month of flowering and at least 15 days before harvest. The recommended dosage is way too high (4-5ml/L) so please check your EC levels for the correct dosage."
Ok, when using ripen the last weeks when i am in coco should i ONLY be using Ripen and ph down my water or should i add my Canna A+B and Cannazym aswell?
Justin
This product from General Hydroponics is a real "calorie bomb" with NPK: 0-6-5 and 2,5% magnesium. It's almost a complete fertilizer. In cannabis cultivation Ripen is a good choice for fertilizing extreme Sativas that quickly respond to nitrogen with unwanted stretching, leafy buds, and retarded flowering. Ripen should be applied in the last month of flowering and at least 15 days before harvest. The recommended dosage is way too high (4-5ml/L) so please check your EC levels for the correct dosage."
Ok, when using ripen the last weeks when i am in coco should i ONLY be using Ripen and ph down my water or should i add my Canna A+B and Cannazym aswell?
Justin
