Feminized breeding discussion

[Abdthi1966]

Obviously the standard for producing feminized stock of a unique strain involves selfing a single prime female candidate which I’m familiar with theoretically.
However I had a thought; instead of pheno hunting one prime female, why not two and then produce pollen from one to hit the other one? As long as both females were similar in overall profile I would think it would work well and possibly increase stability in the line? Back in the day I never messed with selfing or fems to much, so this question may be alittle silly but either way I can’t seem to find a thread that isn’t simply about selfing and was curious for some insight.

 

[revegeta666]

Obviously the standard for producing feminized stock is selfing a single prime female candidate which I’m familiar.
However I had a thought; instead of pheno hunting one prime female, why not two and then produce pollen from one to hit the other one? As long as both females were similar in overall profile I would think it would work well and possibly increase stability? I’m not sure if this is something anyone has done or can be done, as I can only find selfing articles. Back in the day I never messed with selfing to much so this question may be alittle silly but either way I can’t seem to find an answer. Overall, I just curious if anyone had any insight.

That is the standard for feminised breeding. Reversing a clone and pollinating every other plant they have in the mother room

 

[Abdthi1966]

That is the standard for feminised breeding. Reversing a clone and pollinating every other plant they have in the mother room

Oh ok. Interesting….. I guess I’m more naive to common commercial practices than I imagined, as it pertains to feminizing. It doesn’t seem like that would be stable long term haha

 

[zaprjaques]

i thought the question was 'whats the better option, to self one plant or to use feminized pollen from one female of the same line/variety to hit another one?'

and i think it depends on what your goals are and on the genetic background of your line/variety.

what do you think?

edit: i was too quick to type and overread that the goal is stability.

in this case i think the second option with 2 different but equal females might be best.

 

[gorilla ganja]

As said above, it depends on your goals. If stability is your goal, then feminized or regular, it will take many generations to reach it.
Simply selfing a plant will not create stability.

 

[goingrey]

When using reversed female pollen, selfing is an additional possibility that is not possible with regular male/female pairings. And indeed if you have an exceptional (or just hyped up) clone it may be a very tempting possibility. However, it is by no means the only option, and in fact using two different females is really no different than using regular male/female pairings. And that may be why you are only finding "selfing articles", as when not selfing, all the "regular" information is valid.. just search for generic articles on breeding.

As for stability, depends what you mean by stable. If you want genetically similar uniform plants, surely selfing multiple generations in a row is the fastest way to achieve that. But it is also the fastest way to achieve inbreeding depression and bring out recessive hereditary diseases and so on. So if by stable you mean healthy plants, then maybe it's not the best way to go.

 

[revegeta666]

Oh ok. Interesting….. I guess I’m more naive to common commercial practices than I imagined, as it pertains to feminizing. It doesn’t seem like that would be stable long term haha

Yes most European seed banks work like this, and some sponsors on this forum too lol. Most hype genetics that come from the US are poly-poly-poly-hybrid

But what do you mean by stable? In terms of phenotype? The closest 2 plants are genetically, the more stable it will be in the sense that the phenotype will be locked and predictable. But that doesn't mean descendants will be better quality plants. The furthest apart they are genetically, the highest the hybrid vigour. The highest the endogamy, the least vigour and the most mutations, which is not really desirable.

 

[dogzter]

Not everyone does it.
Some see it as a lazy attempt at a shortcut that never pans out as advertised and won't touch femmed stock.

 

[Abdthi1966]

In answer to everyone, I had a misconception about how fem pollen operated and assumed that it came with its own set of rules. If that’s the case then my original question was misguided based on a lack of understanding about the process of making them.

I always assumed people bred with regular seed and then s1 most fems to sell. I had heard that fem pollen was running rampant but I had no idea it was that engrained into modern breeding practices.

My family bred corn with simply principles, following mendelsons law so my understanding of genetic inheritance and what not should be applicable. I just never looked into the topic because I deemed it dangerous practice for herms when I first started hearing about. But now I think my understanding is well rounded again. I was just growing curious about the topic as I know fems are popular with the younger crowd and I’m trying to eventually break into seed sales.

 

[Abdthi1966]

Yes most European seed banks work like this, and some sponsors on this forum too lol. Most hype genetics that come from the US are poly-poly-poly-hybrid

But what do you mean by stable? In terms of phenotype? The closest 2 plants are genetically, the more stable it will be in the sense that the phenotype will be locked and predictable. But that doesn't mean descendants will be better quality plants. The furthest apart they are genetically, the highest the hybrid vigour. The highest the endogamy, the least vigour and the most mutations, which is not really desirable.

Yes, in regard to phenotype and that makes sense now that I know the regular rules can be applied. Honestly, I think I’ll jus stick to breeding with true males after hearing everyone’s answers haha.

 

[Spaventa]

Stable to me means the seed produces 1,2 or 3 distinct phenotypes with consistent terpene profiles in the resulting plants. Unstable to me means you get random plants with random characteristics with throwbacks from the whole ancestry popping up.
The S1 term tells me there is no inbreeding to stabilise offspring. I imagine you get slight variation but not total randomness because both parents had the same chromosomes and everything.