ErdPurt

[Theorganicguy]

Still early, but I picked a small test branch and it is filling the house with delicious aromas.

Some colas from the smaller reddish plant.

Looking fabulous! I can almost smell it from here!

Another year, another Erdpurt reproduction upcoming.

 

[dubi]

Hi Foggy420, i'm sorry for my late reply, i've been a few weeks away from the comp. Your ErdPurt plant shows signs of a mix of too high ph, nutrient imbalance and a bit of water stress imo.
A bigger pot with more good quality soil always provides more nutrients, a more stable ph and more space and protected environment for the roots, preventing water stress and such symptoms. If you cannot provide more soil for the flowering then make sure the feeding is really adequate and always in the right ph and ec range.

Erdpurt reg, budding up nicely. Is this leaf color naturally purpling or is this a nutrient imbalance? The top looks good either way. I recently potted up
into some new soil so it should be a happy plant for the next few weeks.

 

[dubi]

Hi TexasTea, the more your PCK/ErdPurt x Purple Satellite females advance in flowering, the more the Pakistan Chitral Kush traits become more obvious and unmistakable! Your purple pheno looks like a copy of her purple PCK 2002 grandma, but the plants of your cross are 3 weeks ahead in flowering than pure PCK! Well done friend!

Thanks for the feedback Hashishh glad your individuals are not hard to keep in perpetual growth. Looking forward to follow your next year ErdPurt grow.

Theorganicguy, love to see you keep growing ErdPurt and making new generation seeds from your own ErdPurt selections!

 

[TexasTea]

Well the 36 inches of rain that we have had since end of June has made a mess of the garden this year. I lost a few ounces to botrytis...I plan to make most of the remaining material into hash I think. Still, I am not unhappy with the results and early smoke tests were quite nice although very mild and short duration.

 

[Foggy420]

Thanks Red and Dubi,
Of course you guys are right. PH is high, the plant needed a bloom nutrient boost and a bigger pot. Luckily I potted it up with a bit of new soil and hit it with a little bit of PH adjusted big bloom and compost tea. The rest of the leaves have stayed green and healthy, except for a recent caterpillar population boom. No botrytis which is my biggest risk, so I’m pretty happy.

Its looking close to finished with cloudy trichs. I’ll take it soon before the caterpillars get more.

The aroma is very pungent and distinct though I don’t know how to describe it exactly. Its spicy and acrid and maybe sour. The description says hash and coffee. If it’s coffee then it’s that style of sour hipster light roast coffee.

 

[dubi]

Sorry to hear it TexasTea Did the botrytis come from caterpillars, rains or both ? I would expect very high botrytis resitance from a hybrid containing purple Pakistan Chitral Kush and Purple Satellite, but ErdPurt being almost a pure Afghani can be quite sensible to botrytis, so it depends how the botrytis resistances of each line recombined in your 3 way hybrid and being more specific in every given individual.

Hi Foggy420 glad to see your ErdPurt female flowering nicely and mold free, flowers look healthy after the transplant. Yours seem to be an intermediate green-purple phenotype, there are indeed nasty acrid Afghani terpene profiles to be found in ErdPurt line, especially in these 'in the middle' phenos. Strictly green phenos are very coffee and 'recently mowing lawns' type of aromas, while fully purple phenos are quite 'berry'. Intermediate phenos show nastier terpene blends.

 

[TexasTea]

Being a forest garden I think most of the trouble came from the excess rain and also a fair amount of falling debris from surrounding trees. It's no big deal as I have a ton of weed here and looking forward to the hash.

Indoors this cross would be terrific I think.

 

[Goodherb]

Being a forest garden I think most of the trouble came from the excess rain and also a fair amount of falling debris from surrounding trees. It's no big deal as I have a ton of weed here and looking forward to the hash.

Indoors this cross would be terrific I think.

TexasTea,give thanks for life, for the plants of renown !

I can relate, with a high amount of tree's around ,the combine effects they can inflict on a garden are multi prone.
Falling debris is one ( or two, three ect... debris can damage, get stuck in buds, cause rot ) thing . But the rain, is another . Maybe if you didn't already, you could place (dig) drain's in strategical spots, around (in) the garden !

Blessed love !

 

[TexasTea]

My garden is basically a big hugelkulture site, built on wood chips. Great drainage. It was the relentless water from above that did me in. Also, a lot of trees blocking the sun in my forest clearing.

 

[Goodherb]

TexasTea, yea the site definitely need drainage trenches to lead "channel" excessive water away from plants.

 

[Goodherb]

Sorry, I was detracted when initial reading your post. You mentioned ,great drainage..

 

[GrowingHigher]

Hi GrowingHigher, that's an intersting topic. So do you assume a plant with 1:1 THC:CBD chemotype will always segregate in other chemotypes so it's not possible to produce a stable true breeding line of 1:1 chemotype ? To be honest, i'm not sure of it, but my guess is that is highly possible since these balanced chemotypes are pretty consistent in CBD rich landraces like ErdPurt or Lebanese.


The only strain we have fully stabilized for a specific CBD rich chemotype is CBD #1, the other CBD rich lines we have breeding have not been stabilized towards one or other chemotype, since i find very important to save and preserve first all the different possible chemotypes before bottleneck a line like ErdPurt or Lebanese towards a specific one, of course it can be done, although we have not done it yet.

I think there are a few conceivable ways for a stable intermediate line to exist:


1. Since the loci for THC acid synthase and CBD acid synthase are separate but closely linked genes in the same region, I do think that it is possible for there to be an active copy of both THCAS and CBDAS on the same chromosome, which could breed true for an intermediate chemotype if homozygous. ( I believe medicinal genomics reported a plant like this).


2. There are also likely synthase versions that are highly leaky giving intermediate ratios of CBDAS and THCAS. Given that THCAS evolved from a CBDAS homolog, there were almost certainly enzymes that made intermediate ratios in the past or in existence now. (I went down a wormhole of looking for hemp germplasm with highly efficient CBD synthase variants a few years ago to find hemp strains that were legally compliant under 0.3% THC based on this hypothesis. There does seem to be variation in the amount of THC 'leakage' from CBD synthases, but I've never seen a line be stable for a ratio more than about 1:25 THC:CBD. There are definitely other things happening (maybe trichome pH, gene regulation, epistasis).


3. I still don't understand how 1:1, THC:CBG plants fit in to this genetic system so there are definitely things going on that I don't know yet... so #3 is a wildcard.



If you are starting with a clone that produces 1:2:1, type 1:type 2:type 3 (THC:intermediate:CBD chemotypes, respectively), segregating offspring, then it is heterozygous for the Bd and Bt "pseudo-alleles" (Bd is active CBDAS, Bt is active THCAS with inactive CBDAS. Actually two different but very closely linked alleles). The ratios of the pure type 1 and type 3 progeny from a clone like ErdPurt should be homozygous for the same allele of active synthase genes and should all be very similar ratios. The type 2s are heterozygotes and also should produce very similar intermediate ratios as each other (depending on the other unknown variables)). If you aren't getting both pure type 1s and type 3s from a segregating intermediate line, then maybe one of the alleles is a fixed THCAS-CBDAS linkage or a leaky enzyme.



For scenario #1 to arise from a starting point of a Bt:Bd heterozygous clone, you would need crossing over to have occurred in between those linked alleles. (This may be an area of chromosome with less than normal crossing over occurance, though the study that showed that compared finola to drug type cannabis, and I am not sure how representative finola is -even among hemp varieties). Even if crossing over occurs at normal rates, they are physically close so it will still be an uncommon occurrence (though if it does occur, then the resulting allele combination should remain linked with active synthases for both THC and CBD). I have never worked with a 1:1 linked chromosome, and I have never seen published info on the ratios it produces when paired with Bt or Bd on the other chromosome. The first time it happens, it will be expressed as a heterozygote with one of those 'alleles' in the first plant and may be hard to ID from chemotype. It may be something odd, like a 1:3-5 (with either cannabinoid dominant). Genetic testing could ID it.


For #2 to occur, a new allele would have to evolve as a de novo mutation during breeding. Such an allele, if it exists, more likely would be found pre-existing in a population. The ~1:2:1, type 1:type 2:type 3 ratio of ErdPurt's progeny wouldn't occur if an allele that acted in this way already existed in the line.


I wouldn't bank on #1 or #2. Either occuring during a breeding program, and also being identified, would be extremely rare/unlikely. Slightly more likely to be identified if it does occur in a program that generates a lot of selfed lines. Scenario #3, on the other hand, probably will occur because things are always more complicated than I think they are at first.


You could take a line unfixed for chemotype and still produce a consistent intermediate type 2 lot from it at the commercial seed production generation: Either by planting ~2x or 4x the needed plants from seed (feminized production or regular, respectively) and culling all but the type 1s for the female and type 3s for the pollen donor, or visa versa. Alternatively, for photoperiod dependant plants, find one (or more) clone(s) of type 1s for the female and type 3s for the pollen donor, or visa versa.
You could also fix such a line as either type 1 or type 3 in the same way at seed production by culling all but either type 1 or 3 plants, depending what you wanted.

 

[Theorganicguy]

Spring is around the corner and Erdpurt is above the soil

#1

#2

 

[51North]

I've made some crosses over the past few years that I'm going to test this year: ErdPurt x (ErdPurt x Hollands Hope) and ErdPurt x Malawi.

The most early ErdPurt phenos were used for these crossings.

The goal is to find ultra early pheno's that can serve as a mother plant.

 

[TexasTea]

I'm thinking about my summer garden plans right now and I may try my Erdpurt/Purple Satellite cross again this year. I just hope it doesn't rain so darned much! Definitely will be starting some pure Purple Satellite too though.

 

[Theorganicguy]

I've made some crosses over the past few years that I'm going to test this year: ErdPurt x (ErdPurt x Hollands Hope) and ErdPurt x Malawi.

The most early ErdPurt phenos were used for these crossings.

The goal is to find ultra early pheno's that can serve as a mother plant.

Using EP as a breeding tool for early hybrids is guaranteed to be a success

Speaking of which: #1 looks and smells like typical green EP phenos: mushroomy, earthy and piney. Are those minuscule branches or did I just sprout the fastest male on Earth?

#1

#2

 

[51North]

Using EP as a breeding tool for early hybrids is guaranteed to be a success

That doesn't always seem right. ErdPurt x Hollands Hope produced very late phenos. They only started flowering at the end of September while ErdPurt normally finish in late August to mid-September.
Hopefully the backcross with ErdPurt will make them much earlier

 

[51North]

I notice that purple phenos finish earlier than green phenos? Is this correct or is it a coincidence?

 

[goingrey]

I notice that purple phenos finish earlier than green phenos? Is this correct or is it a coincidence?

I don't know but that would make sense as the purple ones are probably more towards the Purpurea Ticinensis parent of Erdpurt and it's a very early strain.

You can read more about it here: https://www.icmag.com/threads/purpurea-ticinensis.77855/

 

[ConeSmoker]

Does Eurdpurt have the knock you out so stoned I gotta go to sleep kind of high?