Co2?

[Mojave Dave]

Hi all!

Been a while since I've come around to shake hands and see what everyone is up to. I sincerely hope you are all well and happy and that your gardens are producing copius amounts of truly remarkable bud!

Now...I need a little assistance again, I am considering acquiring a Co2 tank and delivery-regulator-thingie, and I am wondering if the benefits are really worth it?
I have a smaillish grow room, 8 feet by 7 feet with a 9 foot ceiling that is home to one 4 foot by 4 foot grow tent with two NFT tanks, and a smaller grow box that I had custom-made for me that is 4 feet long by about 3 feet wide by 7 feet tall that I will be placing another hydro system in shortly, probably a Flood and Drain (Ebb and Flow) sytem so I can get some practical experience with that sort of sytem as well. It's all so much fun I can't believe my good fortune in getting started with all this growing and smoking and sharing information. What an exciting pastime and excellent hobby! And so personally rewarding in the bargain. I believe we are among the truly lucky folk on earth, simply because our hobby has a wide, global interest that just seems to bring decent, genuione people together.

Sorry, got side-tracked there a bit. I'm virtually pain-free this morning and feel on top of the world, so you'll excuse a little boisterous behaviour, I expect. *wink*

What I want to know is, if I do go ahead and barter for one of these C02 kits, will it boost growth speed and quality and yield as I have read, or is this just a lot of marketing hype?
Understand that I have worked very hard to make the environment as perfect and comfortable as I can for the plants with expensive tank heaters (perfectly kept tempuratures at precisely 25 C), specialized air pumps delivering tons of air into the water via air stones, the best 600w lamp and one of those expensive Super Sonic reflectors, the finest nutrients and additives (Canna), the best electronic CF anf pH meters, and lots of other "pro" equipment that I can't recall. I've gone to great lengths to equip myself as well or nearly as well as the rally good groowers do and as far as I can tell everything here is at its optimum level of performance.
It is my hope that the C02 will truly accelerate growth and yield and all of that. But, you good people will be the deciding factor in this as I value your opinions very highly and trust your judgements completely.

Thanks for your continued generosity and kind assistance once again, my friends. I love it here...

 

[resinryder]

Hey Dave. CO2 WILL increase your yeild. Natural levels outside provide largest harvest on its own. Co2 LEVELS INSIDE ARE REALLY LOW, HOWEVER THERE IS SOME CO2 INSIDE. But not enough to perform at top levels.If you purchase a CO2 kit it will come with a formula to calculate what to set you regulator at based on room size. Really simple. Hope this helps.

 

[WW420]

AMust

AMust


Got to have it,it more than pays for it self!
ww420

 

[Mojave Dave]

Thanks guys! As always I appreciate your input.
I am slowly collecting all of the most professionakl equipment available. I am completely disabled and have no extra cash to spend on my little hobby, and so I barter with online growiong eqwuipment companies and also with the seedbanks for seed stock. Because of these mutually-beneficial arrangements, I am able to procure the very elite seeds.

This is my second grow and I'm not taking any chances on a failed harvest like I had the last time. No Trichs at all on that crop. Well, none to speak of anyweay. You really had to get close and squint your eyes to see them on the buds. None on the leaves at all. Those poor plants suffered every ignorant mistake a newbie can make. They had horrible light leaks to deal with, no ventilation, they were over-fed and under-fed, the humidity was all screwed up and the grow tent was far too hot.
There were other problems as well, like the guy who set it all up for me and placed the clones in the tanks didn't bother to take the plastic wrappers of the Rockwool cubes, and I didn't know any better, so there they stayed. How thiose plants made it through to harvest (what harvest?) I'll never know.

Now I have added a beautiful custom-built grow box to my grow room (bartered for that as well), which gives me the opportunity to add a third NFT tank. I have digital thermomoter/hygrometers to make certain the environiment is in perfect harmony with my plants. I have expensive water heaters in each tank to maintain a constant water temp of precisely 25 degrees. I have high-tech air pump's aerating the water in each tank via an air stone placed right next to the water pump, and I have the best reflector maximizing the light from my 600w HPS lamp.

I have also gotten a bigger fan and filter setup (150 mm) for better air extraction. I have fans to circulate the air in my grow area and keep my plants healthy and strong. This also (as many of you know) fools them into thinking it's really on the windy side where they live, and so forces them to grow thicker stalks that can support bigger, heavier colas.

I have ordered a new grow tent and I have another complete NFT sytem coming in the very near future (a matter of days). But i've repaired the broken zippers and all the holes in the tent I must use until the new one arrives. I have ordered special fans that will be mounted on my reflectors to pull even more heat away from my plants. I will soon have the Co2 kit up and running as well.

I have ordered extra ducting to make the air exchange formula work at it's peak level. There is a thing called "volumetric efficiency", which means that if you make the exhaust hose exactly the correct length relative to the fan's output rating ...no matter how many twists and turns the hose has...the extraction fan's work at thier absolute peak performance, which means my plants will benefit all the more from the air they must breathe.
If the ducting is too short, the fan will work at a higher speed than it was built to perform at, and you risk the danger of extracting too much of the moisture from your tent or other grow space, effectivelty creating and arid environment. Make the ducting too long and the fan will have to owrk harder to effectively pull (extract) the air and then push it out of the grow area.

I didn't learn this from any manual or forum discussion. I learned it as a kid working next to my step-father as he customized and "hopped up" cars for other people. He taught me about volumetric efficiency as it pertains to cutting header pipes to the correct length. I had asked him why all four of the exhaust pipes (the "headers") on one side of the engine (this was in America and we were looking at a 68 GTO 8 cylinder "muscle car") were all different lengths and curled all around each other. He explained that if all four pipes were different lengths to make them look pretty and fit easier into the engine compartment, each cylinder would be working at a different level.
The pistons that were closer to the back of the engine would have to work less to push the exhaust out than the other pistons. That means the motor is not running efficiently. But by simply making them all the exact same length, you can add 20 percent more horsepower to ANY motor.
I simply applied that logical theory to my grow room extraction fan setup and now the plants get the most benefit from the altered system.

But the most important thing I am adding to this current young grow is...experience! I will NOT make the same mistakes twice!

See ya! And thanks for the replies!

 

[WW420]

DON'T OVERFEED!!
WW420

 

[Guest]

As WW420 stated...don't overfeed. Some of the most important lessons I've learned in my 30+ yrs of growing are patience, restraint, and keeping it simple. Newbies tend to "overcare" for their plants..ie watering too often, using 12 different kinds of nutes and additives, over compensating for minor problems etc.
My guess is the reason your last grow did not have alot of trichomes, is due to genetics (I'm assuming you weren't using primo seeds while you are still learning the basics). CO2 will definitely enhance your grow, but IMO it would be a good idea to do your homework so that you understand WHY that is true. Equipment is no substitute for knowledge.
In the spirit of sharing, I would be curious to learn the "bartering" techniques you use to persuade online seedbanks and equipment companies to send you their goods w/o cash...I must be missing something. Better luck w/ your next crop. MG

 

[OXOSSI]

CO2 - Dry Ice Trix

CO2 - Dry Ice Trix


This is a trick I used years ago, it works nicely if u can get hold of somw dry ice (liquid CO2). Cover your plant with a plastic garbage bag upside down and make a relatively small hole on the other side of it (which will now be on top of the plant). Take a plastic container with some isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) and place it directly above the opening and slowly (slooowly!) add small chunks of dry ice to the alcohol. CO2 will sublime and the "fog" will leak downwards covering the plant. When the mixture stops subliming add some hot water slowly. The trick is to melt all the dry ice. Do it just for a couple of minutes otherwise you may freeze and kill the plant (liquid CO2 is - 78 celsius!). If you make a little stand for the container and the plastic bag, it makes things mush easier, otherwise u'll have to use gloves. A few seconds after pouring CO2 one notices that the plants turn dark green! It speeds up growth immensly and I had great results with it.
Don't handle dry ice with your bare hands for too long, otherwise you will get burned. You may however put small chunks of it in your mouth and "blow smoke" Peace!

 

[Guest]

Covering the plant with a bag will stop any light from getting to it.
How will the plant use the CO2??

 

[Guest]

I give my little flowering box (aka torture chamber), which is 4' X 2.5' X 4' (WXLXH), a week or so of CO2 right in the middle of flowering. I have found that if applied correctly, it seems to fatten up the buds a lot quicker than without. However, too much CO2 - especially for a garden your size will cause the bud to ripen prematurely..

I use a 2L soda bottle with about 2 tablespoons of baking soda in the bottom and add about 1/4 cup of cider vinegar. I do this once every day when the lights come on for about a week and a half. The bottle can go without cleaning for the entire time.... Towards the end, all you have to do is add a little bit of vinegar...

Best of luck in your grow!

Semper Fi & Stay safe!

 

[OXOSSI]

CO2 - Dry Ice Trix

CO2 - Dry Ice Trix

dry ice
container

-- -- box w a hole on top
plant I
-----I
I will make a nice drawing later but this is the basics. Put your plant in a cardboard box or a plastic bag. Dry ice form the container on top containing isopropanol on top will difuse downwards, covering the plant and saturating the atmosphere in the container. Do this for a couple of minutes ONLY once a day or every couple of days. Careful not to kill the plant. I only used this for vegging. but would really like to hear from my fellow growers what it does in flowering! My intuition tells me that it will do wonders. Peace

 

[Mojave Dave]

Great advice again! I thank you all for your assistance on this. I especially want to try the dry ice/bin bag method as that seems the most effective way of delivering the Co2 directly to the plants.
I didn't quite understand the one about the 2 litre bottle with a baking soda/vinegar. Once you make that mixture up in the bottom of the plastic bottle, what do you do with it?

Thanks again...I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[OXOSSI]

CO2

CO2

NaHCO3 + CH3COOH = CO2 + H2O + CH3COONa
bak. soda + vinager

Another way to generate CO2. Isolate the plant in a container (as small as possible, plastic bag also works). Put the bottle next (on top, better) to the plant and and leave it for an hour or so. You want to have a saturated CO2 atmosphere around your baby. If you can get hold of dry ice, much easier.

Or (just thought of this). Attach a rubber hose on the bottle with baking soda and vinagar and the other end put right ot top of the plant. That way it'll work the same as the dry ice method.

 

[Guest]

Just remember that CO2 is heavier than air, and it will just pass through the plant on the way to the floor...unless you have a small circulating fan in the enclosed growing area.

 

[Guest]

I used about 1 foot of clear plastic tube (any type would do) and hooked it to the top of my box. I also had one of those little, battery powered personal fans at the bottom. I taped the fan's trigger so it would stay on. I left it in the box for about an hour.

I never did it while they were in veg. I only did this while in flower. I have not done it for the last six or seven grows....

 

[Guest]

I have ordered extra ducting to make the air exchange formula work at it's peak level. There is a thing called "volumetric efficiency", which means that if you make the exhaust hose exactly the correct length relative to the fan's output rating ...no matter how many twists and turns the hose has...the extraction fan's work at thier absolute peak performance, which means my plants will benefit all the more from the air they must breathe.
If the ducting is too short, the fan will work at a higher speed than it was built to perform at, and you risk the danger of extracting too much of the moisture from your tent or other grow space, effectivelty creating and arid environment. Make the ducting too long and the fan will have to owrk harder to effectively pull (extract) the air and then push it out of the grow area.

I didn't learn this from any manual or forum discussion. I learned it as a kid working next to my step-father as he customized and "hopped up" cars for other people. He taught me about volumetric efficiency as it pertains to cutting header pipes to the correct length. I had asked him why all four of the exhaust pipes (the "headers") on one side of the engine (this was in America and we were looking at a 68 GTO 8 cylinder "muscle car") were all different lengths and curled all around each other. He explained that if all four pipes were different lengths to make them look pretty and fit easier into the engine compartment, each cylinder would be working at a different level.
The pistons that were closer to the back of the engine would have to work less to push the exhaust out than the other pistons. That means the motor is not running efficiently. But by simply making them all the exact same length, you can add 20 percent more horsepower to ANY motor.
I simply applied that logical theory to my grow room extraction fan setup and now the plants get the most benefit from the altered system.

But the most important thing I am adding to this current young grow is...experience! I will NOT make the same mistakes twice!

See ya! And thanks for the replies!

How did you come up with the formula?
I am a avid gearhead, and know exactly what your talking about.
There are variables though.
You make equal length LONG tube header's and it let's the motor breathe in the upper rpm's.
Shorty's give you low end grunt.
I have used a similiar method.
You know how engine builder's tap off the rear header flange and attach it to the crank case to scavange the gases?
I run a small 120v fan at the end of my pipe run to help boost the hot air coming out.
Kind of like a slave fan.
I would be interested what length pipe per cfm formula you may have.
Be well.

 

[Mojave Dave]

Actually, my daughter, who is a physics whiz, figured that one out for me. She took the volume of air the pump manufacturer stated the fan was capable of moving per minute. Then she figured out the volume of air present in one foot of the 150mm silver flexi-hose. I think that once she knew how much air the fan could effectively move each minute without overworking or underworking itself, she just divided the fan's expected capacity by the volume of air present in each foot of hose and that gave her the proper hose length for that fan. I think that's they way she went anyway.

Again, since I am in constant pain, I pretty much always have a joint in my hand, so trying to work a little Trig or Algebra or whatever it was she used was out of the question for me. I'll ask her to put it down on paper so I can relay that info here for you.

See ya.

 

[Guest]

You guys are making my head hurt with all this "Big Word" talk.... LOL

Now I'm gonna have to roll a pinner and go sit on the back porch and try to think of simpler things.....

 

[Mojave Dave]

*grin* I had to re-write that about nine times to make it sound that way. Just like it's taking me maybe four tries now to get this typed correclty. *stoopid grin* Man, this Biddy Early is top shit. Whew!

 

[Guest]

*grin* I had to re-write that about nine times to make it sound that way. Just like it's taking me maybe four tries now to get this typed correclty. *stoopid grin* Man, this Biddy Early is top shit. Whew!

I recommend rolling a pinner, go somewhere quiet..... Ah hell, what am I saying, you already have a "stoopid grin" on your face, I guess you been doing that already!

Keeper' Green my friend and keep keepin' on!