clones in coco drooping yellow leaves

[OG_NoMan]

IMO, your pots are too big, your ec is too high, and you are too focused on your waste waters ph and ec. Most coco growers are trying to get their plants root bound to be able to multi feed. Going from a quart to 3 gallons was a big jump and I would guess you didnt have good enough root development to sustain daily feeding. Your nutrient profile matters much more than the ec as you can have a high ec but with the wrong nute profile therefore locking out what you need. Also as the coco dries out the ec increases in the root ball. Good luck and hope you get it figured out.

Just wanted to add: Make sure your pens are calibrated weekly to maintain accuracy in your readings. A mistake I used to make in the beginning and then I would find out the PH was not where I thought it was. Again, good luck.

 

[sjk90]

So 2 days after the flush the EC was back at 1,15 and stayed there for the last couple days, just weird that it's always ending at 1,15 know matter what I give them, PH is now at 6,4

New leaf is pale green with some spots lower leaves look darker green and more healthy.

Sounds like your reading the plants pretty good but are afraid to do what you think... I would up the ec a little.. they are hungry you should be able to up it till the ec comes out atleast 1 to 200 ppm more than whats going in without problems any more than that and i would dial it back a little... What type of lighting are you under?

Yes, when looking at the runoff I would say they need more but when I look at the plants and the start off burned leaf tips I think they at there max, this is what I find so strange.
There in a 5 x 5 tent and my light is photontek XT 1000W CO2 Pro LED dimmed to 75% at the moment.

IMO, your pots are too big, your ec is too high, and you are too focused on your waste waters ph and ec. Most coco growers are trying to get their plants root bound to be able to multi feed. Going from a quart to 3 gallons was a big jump and I would guess you didnt have good enough root development to sustain daily feeding. Your nutrient profile matters much more than the ec as you can have a high ec but with the wrong nute profile therefore locking out what you need. Also as the coco dries out the ec increases in the root ball. Good luck and hope you get it figured out.

Just wanted to add: Make sure your pens are calibrated weekly to maintain accuracy in your readings. A mistake I used to make in the beginning and then I would find out the PH was not where I thought it was. Again, good luck.

Yes the jump from quart to 3 gal was probably to big but this was weeks ago.
They're now in 4 gal pots, 6 plants in a 5x5 tent and drinking pretty good, I need to feed them 1/3 gallon each, 2 times a day to get 20% runoff so they probably root bound.

I thought the advantage off coco was that you can look at your runoff and determine your next feeding strength! If I'm to focused on runoff how do I know what to give them otherwise, just by looking at the plant?

For feeding I just give them equal parts B1 an B2 just like the FloraFlex schedule recommends only not there EC because then I need to give them EC 3,0 that's just crazy and makes no sense.
Pens are calibrated ones a week so I'm sure that's not the problem

 

[f-e]

The lower runoff can be a sign that the coco is grabbing onto things. It will do this if it has been stripped. I notice you are not using a calmag product which could cause the coco's buffering to be used as part of the feed. Raising the entire EC with more bloom would offer both a fix, and an overfeed issue. With coco, under LED, in cooler temps, Calmag is generally needed.

Could do with checking your water report. It's quite hard sounding.


I'm looking along the lines of cold, wet, poor buffering.

 

[Akss]

Yeah that sounds like a powerful light how close to the canopy is it? im new to led myself been under hps for many years. Just had my first run under a 300 watt led and it was very demanding compared to hps they seemed to want more of everything more base more calmag more epsom. Lol the run turned out pretty good but didnt start off good . I missed that your tap is 0.6 thats quite a bit 300ppm of who knows what. If your feeding at 1.5 thats 750 ppm minus the 300 ppm of your water and thats only 0.9 ec or 450ppm nutes... Plants dont look bad in the pic other than pale up top i cant really see burnt tips...

 

[Akss]

I would at a minimum start adding some calmag as f-e suggested

 

[asher1er]

sjk90 what brand coco are you using? off rip, you "flushed" your coco way too much instead of buffering.. I've always used quality coco so never had a need to "flush"it or buffer it but whenever i've had to correct a lock out or something else i would never run anything below .8 EC which depending on the ppm scale you use its between 400-600ppm.

Coco does funny things when you try to strip it or flush it out with extremely low or RO water. Your still in the early stages so you have plenty of time to get things right, i can tell you tho that you WILL drive yourself crazy if you continue to check run-off and try to balance it out with your input. When you initially transplant you don't need run-off this will cause you to over water. I know people will say you can't over water coco but this is not the case if you don't have a strong and developed root system.

 

[sjk90]

Sorry for the late reply, been a bit busy.
My tap water EC is 0,6 but I dilute it with 50% RO water and then bring it up again with cal-mag to EC 0,5.


They're now 2,5weeks in flower, strange thing is the moment I start using the floraflex bloom booster start of week 2 the EC off my runoff started rising and PH started dropping. I was giving them EC 1,5 and the runoff went from 1,15 to around 2,0 in less than a week.
I slowly dropped my EC 0,1 a day to 1,3 till the runoff was back at an acceptable range off 1,3.

I still find them not looking very healthy, top off the plant is still yellow and I see burned tips. Not sure if it's nute burn or maybe potassium deficiency or something else?

They get 3 feedings a day and drink around 3 quarts each a day.

Day 18 flower
Led light 100% at 1000watt
CO2 1400ppm
day temp 86F humidity 75%
Night temp 69-72F humidity 60-70%
EC 1,35 runoff 1,31
PH 5,8 runoff 6,1

 

[Virgin1]

You could try raise ur ph I read a great thread on here that said to run coco ph at 6.2-6.3 in flower . 5.8-6.0 in veg

 

[Three Berries]

Too much light? That's my answer for the week.....

 

[sjk90]

Distance between light and plants is around 25'' and the ppfd is 1500 in the middle off the light and around 900 towards the edges.

Would 1500 umol with 1400ppm CO2 cause light stress? I thought with CO2 it's almost impossible to give them too much light.

 

[Three Berries]

Too much of a good thing. I run high CO2 and get light burn. I think the high CO2 and higher amount of light allow the plant to work hardest and most efficient but almost anything can be done to excess.

I read a good article last week on excessive light and the issues it causes but it's from another forum. Sure rang my bell as it looked just like Ca/Mg/K nute deficiencies, but when you add the additional nutes it only makes it worse because it can't use what its got due to the excess light.

 

[Virgin1]

If ur running that led on full power with co2 don’t you need to run a higher ec to keep up ?
I run led without co2 and I feed 1.5-1.6 ec with no problems I try keep my temps above 28 c and they seem very happy -

 

[sjk90]

So I dimmed the light to 800watt, around1000 umol and turned down the CO2 to 1200ppm 2 days ago.
They now look worse than a couple days ago and I'm not sure if the high light and co2 is really the problem.

Runoff EC keeps creeping up and PH is dropping, EC in 1,35 and comes back 0,2 higher PH in 5,8 runoff 5,9. They drink 4 gal a day, 0,8 gal each divided over 3 waterings.
I believe rising EC and dropping PH means overfeeding?

The burned leaf tips are slowly progressimg and I'm more thinking of overfeeding although I almost can't imagine that's possible at EC 1,4 and the pale green almost yellow leaf color doesn't't make sense. .

Bought a bigger RO filter and filled my reservoir with 100% RO water, ditched the bloom booster only calmag, epsom and base and lower EC.

GH calmag EC 0,3
epsom salt EC 0,1
Base nutes B1 and B2 EC 0,8
Total EC 1,2

some drip clean and a bit off PH+ tot PH 6,1

Do you guys think it's nute burn or it's something else?

 

[Virgin1]

I have never run co2 before but I run led and I can’t get over 900 umol without problems I did struggle at first with led but bringing the temps up sorted that out I run from 1.5 ec at the start to 1.7 mid follower ur ec isn’t high at all - are ur pots well rooted ?

 

[sjk90]

I don't think it's climate related, temp is 85F, RH 75% that's fine when running CO2. Too much light isn't probably the cause because I see the burned leaf tips also on the lower leaves that are far away from the light and grew this strain a couple time's before under more powerful light with no problems.

This strain doesn't like high EC, in soil most off the time around EC 1,4 - 1,6 but now I'm at 1,15 and still get higher runoff at 1,35.
When I checked the roots 2 weeks ago they seem pretty root bound and they drink pretty good.

I can't think of anything else then nute burn, the tips are burned all over the plant top and bottom. Only weird thing is the lighter pale green leaf color in the higher part off the plant.
Took some leaves off for better pic's

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

Too much of anything at the clone stage always caused me a problem,lots of good advice in here,call mag with every feed ,let it dry out initially for the roots to spread,back off on nute strength ,temps in veg....etc

Slow n easy at first has been my rule of thumb for the past decade.
GL

 

[hyposomniac]

Can you please post how much of each fertilizer you use in grams/liter (or gallon).
You are overwatered and underfed imho.

 

[sjk90]

I use Floraflex B1 1,45 gram a gallon and B2 1,45 gram a gallon this will give me a total EC off 1,15 (including 0,3 from calmag and 0,1 from Epsom salt).

I read the cocoforcannabis how to water in coco guide, they say you need to feed 5% off your container size and get 10%- 20% runoff if you get less runoff you need to water more frequently.

They're in 4 gal containers and I feed them 3 times a day, first is 1 hour after light on, second 4,5 hours later and last 4,5 hours later/2hours before light out.
First watering 2 quarts each and second and third watering 1 quart each and get about 30% runoff.

Do you think I over-water them? I'm not sure because if I follow the 5% advice I maybe even need to ad one more watering?

 

[9DRAGONS]

I raised and dimt the light and didn't water them for 3 days but they look worse than before.

What I find weird is I watered them a moment ago and the bags where light in weight, it took a pretty large amount of water to get 20% runoff so I expected from the coco drying out a high EC runoff but the EC runoff was slightly lower than what was going in.

In PH 5,8 EC 1,21 runoff PH 6,2 EC 1,17

Does it mean I'm maybe underfeeding them? I'm a bit confused because it looks like the newer growth has slightly burned tips.


Or could it be a potassium deficiency? Symptoms do look a bit the same.

Normally you should see the ph drop in hydro mediums but you get a high ph return, for example if shoot at 6.3ph I Normally get back 5.8ph but you ph is rising

Plant are over watered and the plant is lazy and has not fully rooted throughout the coco medium, you can back off food, my thinking is plant need water when they need it no rule book. With coco, they don't need water every day and also water at what % bottom flood or top watering?

 

[sjk90]

Okay I will try to feed them less often, going from 3 waterings a day to 2. First watering 1 hour after light on second 2 hours before light out will this be okay?

By the way I fed them EC 1,15 the last couple days and my runoff now is EC 1,00. They look a bit healthier and prying more to the light, I still see burned tips but I think at a slower progression.