Cheap Nutrient Line for Commercial and Home Grows?

mexweed

Well-known member
I meant that when using mr fulvic the mammoth/tribus is even more pointless, I suppose if using a medium that mimics soil as far as water retention goes it could work, but that stuff needs to be in the medium/rootzone for a while before it starts to really work, if you're in coco and running water through it multiple times a day for example a lot of it will just rinse through before it has a chance to work its magic, and at least in the case of mammoth that targets P deposits I just don't see the point when mixing a salt profile that's 321 with some hammerhead sprinkled on top, the mr fulvic will aid the uptake just fine on its own

those bacterial inoculants also smell awful, I could see a res ending up taking on some of the smell

if you're going to use one of those products at least do a true side by side with a sample before you start growing buckets of stuff that smells like ass, I thought it worked in soil but I can't really say if it just got the plants going a bit better at the beginning of flower or if it truly made a difference in the end product, that was in organic soil though, with 321/hammerhead/mr fulvic I'm way less inclined to be convinced it makes a worthwhile difference
 
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maryjaneismyfre

Well-known member
I meant that when using mr fulvic the mammoth/tribus is even more pointless, I suppose if using a medium that mimics soil as far as water retention goes it could work, but that stuff needs to be in the medium/rootzone for a while before it starts to really work, if you're in coco and running water through it multiple times a day for example a lot of it will just rinse through before it has a chance to work its magic, and at least in the case of mammoth that targets P deposits I just don't see the point when mixing a salt profile that's 321 with some hammerhead sprinkled on top, the mr fulvic will aid the uptake just fine on its own

those bacterial inoculants also smell awful, I could see a res ending up taking on some of the smell

if you're going to use one of those products at least do a true side by side with a sample before you start growing buckets of stuff that smells like ass, I thought it worked in soil but I can't really say if it just got the plants going a bit better at the beginning of flower or if it truly made a difference in the end product, that was in organic soil though, with 321/hammerhead/mr fulvic I'm way less inclined to be convinced it makes a worthwhile difference

In my experience, if the bacterial inputs smell awful then they were sitting on the shelf at your growshop for too long unrefridgerated and I'd throw them out..We go through large amounts and used to buy in 25L cans from the manufacturers direct, they never smell new, as we'd get to nearer to the bottom of the can it might start getting stinky, I'd then throw it out. I now order in multiple 5L cans and keep the unused unopened in the fridge and they don't get to the point of stinking..When I use a stinking bottle I tend to get later explosions of PM or botritus or pythium etc..after probably introducing some pathogenic microbe.
 

maryjaneismyfre

Well-known member
Also from my experience, most humates have at least a little fulvics as impurity, and most fulvics comtain some humates as impurity, both being extracted out of lignite which is brown coal. Humate is long chain heavy fraction and fulvates are smaller short chain molecules..The products I use are like that as I've been told by the manufacturer themselves who told me that most if not all are like that as they occur in same deposits. Humates tend to stick nutrients to the medium while fulvics tend to keep things in solution, chelating them, and make them highly available to the plants..In coir and rockwool hydro I use fulvics and in proper soil I use humates..In tanks that sit and recirculating systems humates will tend to grab your micros and others and stick them to the side of the tank. Just some info, use or don't. Also these are the results of what I experience, less than articulated scientific fact.
 
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HorseBadoritiz That calcium EDTA looks great for the price.

mexweed Living reservoirs with beneficial microbes are a thing. If you keep them clean, there is no smell. Fulvic acid is extremely beneficial in the root zone in hydroponics, soil and soilless.

f-e Organic inputs and oxidizers create biofilm which may affect the efficacy. Fun experiment- Put leonardite in a jar and cover it with 3% H2o2. Don't blame me when you have to sleep on the couch.

maryjaneismyfre That's pretty close. As they break down it goes humus -> Humic acid (alkaline soluble for use in long-term soil building) -> Fulvic acid (soluble at any pH for use in hydroponics, soil, soilless and foliar). Fulvic acid is definitely not an impurity. It is immediately bioavailable to plants.
 

f-e

Well-known member
Sounds like something for the big bang theory gang :)
I did a little reading. H2O2 can clear Humic from water. That's as much as I read, as calculating how much h202 could clear how much humic (clear?) while in my tank solution, was looking like quite a mountain to climb.

I use Humic, knowing there is some Fulvic in there. Soil or coco. I won't tank mix anymore though, as it does just seem to stick to the sides. Leading quickly to poor tank health. Not just a film. Deoxygenation and algal blooms, that don't show until you get a glass full to the light. Hidden as the tank is black with humus. I got in a mess with that one.
 
I use Humic, knowing there is some Fulvic in there. Soil or coco. I won't tank mix anymore though, as it does just seem to stick to the sides. Leading quickly to poor tank health. Not just a film. Deoxygenation and algal blooms, that don't show until you get a glass full to the light. Hidden as the tank is black with humus. I got in a mess with that one.

Humic is good for long-term soil building. The carbon content is great for microbes. They break down the humic into fulvic over time. As you have seen, it is good for top dressing as it isn't always immediately soluble in tea. :)
 

maryjaneismyfre

Well-known member
Well spotted...
Ouch, calcium EDTA contains more sodium than calcium! Well dont use that stuff then...Why its not called Sodium Calcium EDTA IDK?
 
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fat freddy

Well-known member
Chat Moderator
TYPICAL ANALYSIS W/V

Sulfur (S) 0.22%
Iron (Fe) 1459 mg/L
Zinc (Zn) 743 mg/L
Manganese (Mn) 607 mg/L
Boron (B) 347 mg/L
Selenium (Se) 198 mg/L
Copper (Cu) 197 mg/L
Molybdenum (Mo) 39 mg/L

Hi Bill. If I was to use this product for trace elements how much would I need per 10 litre?
I live in a country that doesn't have jacks etc.
Good thread thanks for starting it.
 
TYPICAL ANALYSIS W/V

Sulfur (S) 0.22%
Iron (Fe) 1459 mg/L
Zinc (Zn) 743 mg/L
Manganese (Mn) 607 mg/L
Boron (B) 347 mg/L
Selenium (Se) 198 mg/L
Copper (Cu) 197 mg/L
Molybdenum (Mo) 39 mg/L

Hi Bill. If I was to use this product for trace elements how much would I need per 10 litre?
I live in a country that doesn't have jacks etc.
Good thread thanks for starting it.

Iron is going to be your determining limit factor. I run Fe 1.5-2.5 ppm. 1 mg/L = 1 ppm, so divide a liter of your solution by 1459 for 1ppm Fe.
 

maryjaneismyfre

Well-known member
As long as you keep the sodium under 45 ppm, you should be alright. Sodium and other trace elements act like an electrolyte in plant cells to assist transporting nutrients around the plant.

45PPM is not a trace element range...40 ppm of sodium in your water is not going to do you any favours..Sodium sits right by magnesium, potassium and calcium on the periodic table, that and knowing that the plant doesn't use or need sodium and really needs those others should tell you everything you need to know..

Kinda reminds me of the facility that I run, when I got here the previous bright spark consultants had them using sodium bicarb as their PH down...Was easy to improve things here...LOL
 
Don't forget we are dealing with weeds here. They are incredibly tolerant and trace elements (elements that are outside of trace minerals required for plant growth) are beneficial and more closely mimic nature.

It's why people add sea salt, humic acid and azomite to their grows. Sodium is one of those elements that is just found in higher amounts that the plant is tolerant of. It's likely what made OG "Ocean Grown" cannabis different and appealing from the environmental exposure to sea water.
 
Bill,

Thank you so much for this post and all the information included. I am use to making a lasagna of organic ingredients from a family member’s recipe for outdoor and tossing in a seedling and adding water. This whole indoor thing was basically embarrassing my first grow and truthfully my second wasn’t much better.

Obviously I am new to indoor growing and want to keep things as simple as possible after my last two grows. I am going to run Coco DTW in 1-2 gallon pots with multiple feedings per day. So actually I guess it’s not going to be that simple but I am hoping to keep the nutrients simple for the first couple runs. I have already got everything I think I will need but want to double check ratios because of DTW Coco. Also the plants I will run have vegged on Flora Trio. So first off is it ok to switch to your recommended nutrients before flip.

My plan is to start out about 50% and ramp up to around 700-750 PPM not including boosters.

So do I just cut Jacks recommended 3.79/2.52 ratio in half and move up 5-10% at each reservoir change?

Run Flowering Cal/Mag at 50% as well and ramp up the same way?

Same with Mr Fulvic?

By the time I get to Homemade Hammerhead Time I just follow the plan you outlined for weeks 4-6 and then try to finish strong.

should I start higher than 50% since I am already at full strength Flora Trio? If so what percentage do you recommend?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I have read this entire thread 3 times now and I truly appreciate all of your contributions. I believe I can execute the plan and keep it simple but I just want to confirm everything before I flip in a week and make sure I’m good to run Coco DWT on the plan.

Cheers,

LJ
 

LostTribe

Well-known member
Bill,

Thank you so much for this post and all the information included. I am use to making a lasagna of organic ingredients from a family member’s recipe for outdoor and tossing in a seedling and adding water. This whole indoor thing was basically embarrassing my first grow and truthfully my second wasn’t much better.

Obviously I am new to indoor growing and want to keep things as simple as possible after my last two grows. I am going to run Coco DTW in 1-2 gallon pots with multiple feedings per day. So actually I guess it’s not going to be that simple but I am hoping to keep the nutrients simple for the first couple runs. I have already got everything I think I will need but want to double check ratios because of DTW Coco. Also the plants I will run have vegged on Flora Trio. So first off is it ok to switch to your recommended nutrients before flip.

My plan is to start out about 50% and ramp up to around 700-750 PPM not including boosters.

So do I just cut Jacks recommended 3.79/2.52 ratio in half and move up 5-10% at each reservoir change?

Run Flowering Cal/Mag at 50% as well and ramp up the same way?

Same with Mr Fulvic?

By the time I get to Homemade Hammerhead Time I just follow the plan you outlined for weeks 4-6 and then try to finish strong.

should I start higher than 50% since I am already at full strength Flora Trio? If so what percentage do you recommend?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I have read this entire thread 3 times now and I truly appreciate all of your contributions. I believe I can execute the plan and keep it simple but I just want to confirm everything before I flip in a week and make sure I’m good to run Coco DWT on the plan.

Cheers,

LJ

The Jacks thread has a plethora of useful info in the first 2 pages for mixing small batches. Coco is also not like soil whatsoever so I recommend brushing up on the basics of watering it to runoff of 20% and not letting it dry out.

https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijua...-question-for-the-growers-using-jacks-5-12-26
 
Thank you Lost. I have been studying the Coco threads for a couple weeks and have my DTW manifold complete and tested, a pump and back up pump as well, and a mountain of 3-2-1 ingredients and a pile of notes on the subject so hopefully I don’t mess that up too bad.
 
Bill,

Are you saying just jump in at 100% of the plan? I’m good with that the ramp up was a friends recommendation because of the 2 different nutrient lines. Thank you
 

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