Bacillus Subtilis Natto: Culture Discussion Thread

[Douglas.Curtis]

Love it or hate it, natto has enough health benefits it should be a regular part of your diet. It's stinky, mild flavored and gooey/stringy as all get out when done right.

I'm setting out to begin making it again and am curious what natto community is on icmag

How long have you been culturing natto?

What's your favorite substrate and why?

Any tips you want to share on the subject of culturing it?

Anyone fermenting animal feeds with natto?

Last but not least, would you happen to know of a supply outlet for Bacillus Subtilis Natto WTC016?

Thank you so much. Have an awesome day!

 

[Creeperpark]

Love it or hate it, natto has enough health benefits it should be a regular part of your diet. It's stinky, mild flavored and gooey/stringy as all get out when done right.

I'm setting out to begin making it again and am curious what natto community is on icmag

How long have you been culturing natto?

What's your favorite substrate and why?

Any tips you want to share on the subject of culturing it?

Anyone fermenting animal feeds with natto?

Last but not least, would you happen to know of a supply outlet for Bacillus Subtilis Natto WTC016?

Thank you so much. Have an awesome day!

Can you explain more or post a photo? I'm not sure what you are talking about.

 

[chilliwilli]

Natto is fermentet soybeans that turned a little slimey. Only had it once with some soy sauce and mustard. Taste was like cheese and consistency was slimey.
Natto should produce the form of vit k2 that is best bioavaliable for the body(k2 mk7)

 

[Cvh]

I see on eBay that cultures are being sold there.
@Douglas.Curtis , maybe an idea to go through the different offerings on eBay to search for that specific strain you're looking for?

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Nattokinase dissolves blood clots by directly hydrolyzing fibrin and plasmin substrate. It converts endogenous prourokinase to urokinase (uPA). It also degrades plasminogen activator inhibitor (PAI-1) and increases the level of tissue plasminogen activator (t-PA).

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I have been researching this Natto lately - with the idea of including it in my diet - since I'm awaiting heart surgery - and want to be as fit as possible when they open me up to fix my leaking Mitral valve - would be great if I could just make it myself - The Japanese have been making and eating it for a very long time - for all its health benefits - GOOD TOPIC!

 

[Normannen]

show us your fermenting rig.

 

[Cvh]

It doesn't look too difficult to make yourself.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Yes, it is rather simple to make.

After further study, I've decided to skip the specific strain idea and go the natural starter route. The idea originated when I found info stating commercial starters are not as potent as could be found naturally.

Turns out the original starter was rice stalks, boiled for a short time. The boiling water kills almost all the bacteria, while it also heat activates the bacillus bacteria. You can use many different wild plant stalks with the same results. I'll be trying different plants in the area with the goal of finding a vigorous strain.

No fermentation chamber yet, but I nearly have all the parts I'll need.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Thanks Cvh - and Douglas.Curtis - and by reading the comments on that natto making video - you can use many other types of beans - not just soy to make natto - I do have a pressure cooker - but not a yogurt making machine - I will pop by one of the local Asian shops locally and see what natto products/culture they have available - already I do take a k2 m7 supplement with D3 every day - but it would be good to and perhaps fun to make my own natto - maybe even try to make it with red kidney beans - since I have a kilo of dried kidney beans in the kitchen -

 

[troutman]

If I'm fermenting again it's gonna be corn mash.

 

[Normannen]

Yes, it is rather simple to make.

After further study, I've decided to skip the specific strain idea and go the natural starter route. The idea originated when I found info stating commercial starters are not as potent as could be found naturally.

Turns out the original starter was rice stalks, boiled for a short time. The boiling water kills almost all the bacteria, while it also heat activates the bacillus bacteria. You can use many different wild plant stalks with the same results. I'll be trying different plants in the area with the goal of finding a vigorous strain.

No fermentation chamber yet, but I nearly have all the parts I'll need.

Careful with that, I once got infected by the virosus variant and was sick for two weeks. It was deliciously painful.

 

[Cvh]

Yes, it is rather simple to make.

After further study, I've decided to skip the specific strain idea and go the natural starter route. The idea originated when I found info stating commercial starters are not as potent as could be found naturally.

Turns out the original starter was rice stalks, boiled for a short time. The boiling water kills almost all the bacteria, while it also heat activates the bacillus bacteria. You can use many different wild plant stalks with the same results. I'll be trying different plants in the area with the goal of finding a vigorous strain.

No fermentation chamber yet, but I nearly have all the parts I'll need.

Isn't it better to work with bought starters?

Working with wild microbes sounds dangerous to me. See also the above post from Normannen.

 

[troutman]

Isn't it better to work with bought starters?

Working with wild microbes sounds dangerous to me. See also the above post from Normannen.

Wild cultures are not as reliable as selected ones. You could get lucky and get a really good one.
But chances are they'll be less productive and unless a person employs microbiology techniques
to isolate it from contaminants you'll always be growing lots of unknowns.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Yes, it's a process. Yes, it will take time. Yes, eventually I'll find a productive one I can maintain. There's a significant number of research papers on the subject, if anyone's interested in searching for them.

In the mean time I do have commercial cultures available.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Careful with that, I once got infected by the virosus variant and was sick for two weeks. It was deliciously painful.

Could you share more on your methods which led to this outcome? I'm turning up nothing for 'virosus' and bacillus.

It's not often you find 'bad' bacteria which can survive boiling temps like subtilis natto does. I'd like to read more about it.

 

[Normannen]

Could you share more on your methods which led to this outcome? I'm turning up nothing for 'virosus' and bacillus.

It's not often you find 'bad' bacteria which can survive boiling temps like subtilis natto does. I'd like to read more about it.

So I tried to make natto from rice, I let it sit over night with the lid on cold. The day after it was indeed smelly of bacillus (each bacterium has its own smell, I come from laboratory work so I got that going for me). And it was indeed stringy and slimey. But the problem is that rice gets touched by unwashed hands causing it to accumulate bacillus species, or more correctly, variants that can have unpleasant metabolisms, such as the poisonous kind. Buy your cultures, inoculate after sterilizing.

 

[chilliwilli]

It's not often you find 'bad' bacteria which can survive boiling temps like subtilis natto does. I'd like to read more about it.

Thats not true. Those bacteria that can produce spores will survive boiling, to be correct the spores survive and sprout again. F.e. every bacillus can do(this including anthrax).

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Appreciate that. Fortunately this is a process which has been safely used for centuries.

In all the reading I've been doing there is one thing which seems universal. The cultures used in daily life have a much more complex, and many times beneficial, effect on the fermentation process. Pure cultures simply do not replicate this.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

No pics of the fermentation chamber, it's nothing flashy at any rate. Super simple though.

Inkbird humidity controller
Inkbird temp controller
(did you know you can get both functions in one unit? lol I do now.)
Small humidifier
Small hotplate
Large Tile

I put the tile on the second shelf of a wire shelving unit.
The hot plate goes on the tile.
A garbage sack is laid flat on the wire next to the tile, covering the rest of the 'floor' of the chamber. (this leaves only small holes below to the next shelf)
A large garbage sack (cut open) is taped around the top and sides of the first 2 shelves.

No real 'door' at this point, simply sliding the plastic up enough to allow access works for now.

Testing it now with a batch of chinese rice wine yeast balls. Wheeeeeee!