Any GRAPE growers? Vineyards, wines, and the california dream....

[Yes4Prop215]

Hey i have a family member and his friends who want to start a vineyard in a pretty nice area of northern california. Was hoping to hear from some vineyard owners on here your ideas and opinions. Some things about this venture scare me....3 years till first harvest, 5 years till peak production. per acre you can only yeild maybe 8k if your lucky, yet it costs so much more to setup. Compared to marijuana, the investment/return is terrible on grapes.

Now, my family member is not a total newb to this. He has connections to several people who already grow grapes and operate wineries. He has soil samples, general idea of how to grow grapes, experiance growing plants including marijuana.

Biggest obstacles so far-

1) setting up a vineyard. wow, so much work. first you gotta level the land which will costs thousands upon thousands. then set up the vines for 10 acres which will also be a ton of work. already, on top of the intial cost for the land, there will be another 100k or so for construction, setup, etc...

2) water.....we found some nice parcels but they only have 5gph wells...which means we gotta dig to find more GPH or do dry farming...again super COSTLY...id assume it would be better to pony up and buy land with a good GPH well...or maybe we can save money because good wells cause property values to rise alot...and gamble on finding a better well on site.

3) super long wait for returns. friends already in the business say they didnt break even until 4-5 years. so that means for 5 years the investors will be out 100k+...maybe its not so bad...but im just used to marijuana where you will get a investment return in as little as 3-6 months, and be pulling higher profits from then on.

Any advice or suggestions are appreciated and i will pass them on. I also might be working the vineyards myself so i will have a lot of research to do....

 

[mean mr.mustard]

You might want to PM grapeman...

 

[Madrus Rose]

The land now in Napa county was voted some of the most expensive areas in the country to move into now ...even on the east coast .

went to see Doobie Brothers concert @ the Cohn Winery for a wicked good time among the prime gorgeous vineyards there month or so back
http://www.brcohn.com/featured-stories/the-doobie-brothers-at-b-r-cohn-fall-music-event-in-sonoma

We were their Sound Engineers for 3yrs & Bruce Cohn who's also their manager of many yrs translated that rock n roll music into the wine making business smartly, many yrs ago. They also do Olive oil which is now a big thing to get into ...a beautiful life . But vineyards seem to pop up like weeds now in NorCal , & myself not that much in love with the fruit of Bacchus , he can be an unruly god & destructive .

Rather see more veggie farms , cheese factories & specialty
ranches ....even a good worm farm & grea compost
soil company would be nice ...or table grapes

But grapeman would be the one to talk too for sure ...

 

[grapeman]

Hi - it all starts with soil & water. Good soil & good, plentiful and reasonable priced water.

Check with the local extension service as we stopped leveling land long ago as it cut too much topsoil from one location and moved it to another causing weak spots in the vineyard. You can do amazing things with drip irrigation so think twice before you level the ground. Ripping or slip plowing the ground is better depending on your soil.

The best I've done (a great year on an individual ranch, is $15k/acre net), but I deal in table grapes not wine grapes. Years like that are far and few between.

Do your research and plant the right variety and make sure you get contracts for your grapes. I wouldn't plant anything on the come.


Good luck.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

^yea the soil in these areas is the red iron rich volcanic kind, that is supposedly what is best. also they heard that high altitute stresses the grapes and makes them smalller but having more flavor.

so just plow the dirt up...in some of these areas they dug trenches 4 feet deep with no big rocks...just dirt. but are you sure that the natural soil is good..i mean when we plant outdoor marijuana we usually dig a hole and add our own soil. people dont do this for grapes?

yeah multiple contracts have already made been verbally, these are a circle of guys from college. one of them already has 10 acres and supplies the other guy, who is in marketing and making wine. the wine maker can always use some good northern california area grapes. also in one the parcels that they are looking at, the owner of the land has connections to grape buyers who are already offering contracts as part of the incentive to buy the land.

the area is not exactly in Napa, but close, maybe 30 minutes near Hidden Lake and Clearlake...apparently some napa wine growers see it as the next paso robles or up and coming wine producing areas..

 

[grapeman]

If it were me, I'd have my contracts in writing. but that's just me.

Ripping is done by a D7 or D9 bulldozer pulling a shank 6' deep. We do it both directions. Well worth the money.

 

[Mr Pink]

^yea the soil in these areas is the red iron rich volcanic kind, that is supposedly what is best. also they heard that high altitute stresses the grapes and makes them smalller but having more flavor.

so just plow the dirt up...in some of these areas they dug trenches 4 feet deep with no big rocks...just dirt. but are you sure that the natural soil is good..i mean when we plant outdoor marijuana we usually dig a hole and add our own soil. people dont do this for grapes?

yeah multiple contracts have already made been verbally, these are a circle of guys from college. one of them already has 10 acres and supplies the other guy, who is in marketing and making wine. the wine maker can always use some good northern california area grapes. also in one the parcels that they are looking at, the owner of the land has connections to grape buyers who are already offering contracts as part of the incentive to buy the land.

the area is not exactly in Napa, but close, maybe 30 minutes near Hidden Lake and Clearlake...apparently some napa wine growers see it as the next paso robles or up and coming wine producing areas..

I live in wine country and have worked in wine for a while, and your approach is a bit unusual...

First of all aren't there any existing vineyards your family member could buy? That's what people who are new to the business do most of the time, buy an estate then sometimes they plant some new plots up near the existing ones.
The reason why they do this is there's no point making wine with random grapes grown in a random location, because it will likely have zero interest flavour wise. Vines are different from cannabis, which is a seasonal plant that usually only lives through one year. Contrary to cannabis, vines grow very thick and long roots that explore the soil very deeply. Grapes and juice flavour will be heavily influenced by the type of soil the roots are in, and when I say they go deep I mean deep, like tens of meters. Climate also influences flavours of course, and working well helps producing healthy grapes that will turn into good wine.

He might get lucky and hit an interesting spot, produce unique grapes that will transform into unique wine and do well, but chances are slim... Anyway if really the plan is to buy some land and plant it with vine, I think you'll find some real estate agents that specialize in this field. They'll have plots for which you'll get pedologic and geologic data, then you'll contact a tree nursery that specializes in vines, choose your clones, have them planted and be set to go. You of course can't plant them yourself.

As for water I'll let others express themselves, we don't use water.

I'm not too sure about the way the bulk market works in the states, but in agriculture in general there is no place for small producers unless they transform their product and put it on the market themselves. Over here it's a disaster, most small producers who sell in bulk are losing everything to the banks while prices have been droppping for 10+ years. Many have converted or are trying to and selling bottles, but it's a whole different job and a tough market out there...

Anyway wine is wonderful and it's a fantastic business, but I would take grapeman's advice and be wary of people's promises and oral contracts..

All the best.

 

[BigTreez707]

Hey i have a family member and his friends who want to start a vineyard in a pretty nice area of northern california. Was hoping to hear from some vineyard owners on here your ideas and opinions. Some things about this venture scare me....3 years till first harvest, 5 years till peak production. per acre you can only yeild maybe 8k if your lucky, yet it costs so much more to setup. Compared to marijuana, the investment/return is terrible on grapes.

Now, my family member is not a total newb to this. He has connections to several people who already grow grapes and operate wineries. He has soil samples, general idea of how to grow grapes, experiance growing plants including marijuana.

Biggest obstacles so far-

1) setting up a vineyard. wow, so much work. first you gotta level the land which will costs thousands upon thousands. then set up the vines for 10 acres which will also be a ton of work. already, on top of the intial cost for the land, there will be another 100k or so for construction, setup, etc...

2) water.....we found some nice parcels but they only have 5gph wells...which means we gotta dig to find more GPH or do dry farming...again super COSTLY...id assume it would be better to pony up and buy land with a good GPH well...or maybe we can save money because good wells cause property values to rise alot...and gamble on finding a better well on site.

3) super long wait for returns. friends already in the business say they didnt break even until 4-5 years. so that means for 5 years the investors will be out 100k+...maybe its not so bad...but im just used to marijuana where you will get a investment return in as little as 3-6 months, and be pulling higher profits from then on.

Any advice or suggestions are appreciated and i will pass them on. I also might be working the vineyards myself so i will have a lot of research to do....

Best thing to do is just hire a vineyard management company. That's what most in Napa do.

 

[St. Phatty]

I've got about 1/4 acre of wild grapes.

Should probably take better care of them.