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Old 03-19-2014, 03:54 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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ECSD S1 - Dr.Greenthumb - 4X4X7 Gorilla Tent - 750W (HPS/LED) - PPK -

Update(10/15/14): I never had Broad Mites, it was a fear manifested and exacerbated by over-saturation, misinterpretation, and...

Originally Posted by Backyard Farmer View Post
My favorite lessons are the ones that make me say "id never do it that way again" mainly because the correct path opens itself up in that experience.

Organizing my daily operations, observations, and tasks completed.

Entire life cycle, including post production, controlled in an "ideal" environment. Germination -> Seedling -> Vegetative -> Flowering -> Drying. Treated with equal importance.

Mission: Provide connoisseur cannabis for recreational users through the implementation of innovative techniques and effective use of acquired knowledge

Originally Posted by true grit View Post
Ya I'd say dr. greenthumb. I know the ECSD cut he uses to self for the s1's and its a legit ECSD. I would only imagine the s1's having some similar and nice phenos.
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
As stated in my previous post, the amount of variation in the S1 is directly proportional to the heterozygosity of the parent plant. If the parent being selfed is a hybrid, you will have a huge range pf phenotypes. If it is relatively pure breeding, you will have less variation in the S1.
March 10, 2014. 12:00 PM: Germinated (imbibition) (Six Seeds)
Cannabis sown directly in 1.5" Grodan Rockwool cubes, elevated upon 3" layer of charged + moist Turface (6.0, 250PPM) Depth of seedling?
PH: 6.0
Water Quality: R/O (7 PPM)
PPM (.5 Scale, Bluelab Truncheon): 250PPM
Nutrient: FNB (FloraNova Bloom, High P, Organic matter, humic + fulvic),
Water Temperature: 83
Tent Temperature: 85-88
Tent Humidity: 70% RH (Seeds - Loosely placed dome = ~80%)
Tent Circulation: 150CFM (75% power) recirculation, two oscillating fans (High+Low, neither direct)
Tent Ambient C02: ~400 PPM (C02meter)

Utilizing 600W Full Nova (SunMaster, 100%, Phantom Ballast) within air cooled hood (connected to fan controller, allows precise measurement) as heater. Seedling dome covered with Reflectix to impede intense vertical/direct illumination, although sides allow reflected light to enter (slow adaptation to illumination). 150W SSVL (Solid State Volumetric Lighting Fixture, Total Spectrum) oriented at 45 degree angle, at ~ 1' distance (~350 umol according to manufacturer).

Providing an ideal climate for seedlings allows for complete genetic expression, thus creating a sound, stress free structure which will position the seedling for success.

March 11, 10:00 AM, Radicle Visible
Stable climate conditions
2/6 visibly advanced (millimeters protruding seed coat(testa))
Rockwool Temperature: 83
Turface Temperature: 83 (Slight dryness visible on surface)

March 12, 12:00 PM.
Cotyledon visible when inspecting radical (2/6)
1" Tap root (two samples)
Mold Scare: Recirculating duct detached, spewing moisture rich air into lung room ~3 hours, raising rh to ~55%, encouraging mold growth on exposed dog treats. Lung room maintains ~40%, 70F
Establish once week bleach treatment
Excessive acoustic resonance within arc tube (600W SunMaster Full Nova 6000K), deeming the bulb incompatible with Phantom ballast. Replace with three month old "Ushio 600W HPS" while maintaining ideal temperature.
Increased circulation fan to 100% power, ensuring mold free environment, improving humidity profile + 02 from passive intakes

Saturate Turface with 16oz R/O H20 @ 6.0PH

Cotyledon visible above rockwool surface: March 12, 7:30 PM.
Disturbed rockwool to release sprout from stress

Originally Posted by ECtraveler View Post
. The smaller CMH room has now outperformed (quality-wise) the climate controlled room all 3 times.

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Old 03-19-2014, 04:01 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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46 hours proceeding sowing.
Introduce ~500 umol (@10 in. LED) from developing seedling (cotyledon) @ 72 hours (allow present seedlings to allocate energy to root development; would nutrient application impede root development?)
Maintaining 300 PPM FNB until unifoliate (true leaves) development.
-Administer nutrient via tray (turface) and allow capillary action and cohesion to deliver water/nutrient to rockwool. Encourage vertical root growth.

Allow/promote 02 availability (achieve balance, moisture + 02), Conventional germination practices deprive developing seed of sufficient oxygen.
-Different seed varieties demand/require specific saturation levels. Although general rule suggesting individual completely saturate the media and then remove excess h20 - physically squeezing rockwool or ample drainage. Watering in(container planting practice): completely saturating media to ensure no air pockets and ideal contact between roots+medium.
Old 03-19-2014, 04:13 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 13, 12:00PM
Seedling clearance beyond rockwool surface: 1 inch.
-4 of 6 seedlings have emerged (one of the four developing unifoliate)
Providing 24 hours of exposure to aggressive, external climate/environment prior to introduction of direct, intense illumination - 600W HPS.

Exercising a small selection process; dependent upon germination time (indicative of vigor, decreased risk of disease). Four of six seeds will be selected for production.
One of six noticeably retarded growth rate, immediately culled.
One of six advanced relative to the four which broke surface ~42 hours.
-Providing growth location - on the seedling tray in the middle of tent - for this seedling in case of a tragedy. This seedling has sustained intense illumination (~16" from the bulb) and has maintained visible maturity.

: Created thread questioning the effectiveness of conducting a small selection process dependent upon specific characteristics of development - germination rate, seed size, root growth, stem, etc... Credible individuals suggested such criteria does not guarantee a superior product; potency, aroma, and flavor can only be concluded at maturity.
I assume an individual can select for vigor/yield, as the result will be faster maturity and consequentially a quicker turnaround. The quicker the seed sprouts the less chance for error/infection.
Is it worth purchasing 10/50/100 extra seeds than required? No. But I will recommend and individual sow extra, for within my small sample two were runts, and one never breaking ground. A matter of statistics.
Old 03-19-2014, 04:49 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 14, 12:00 PM: Exposing seedlings.
Seedlings introduced to the real world (aggressive growth environment).
Elevated RW cubes (creating turface mounds) to ensure proper root structure and ease of transplant.
Saturated turface + minimal H20 Rockwool application (250PPM, 83F)
Placed LED directly above seedlings @ 10in (~500 umol)
-Tailored spectrum and desired heat emission.

Employ sterilized, accurate digital thermometer/humidistat within the dome to ensure consistent ideal inputs. Also to track the difference between dome + surrounding environment; this providing valuable information regarding the necessity of the dome. Remove dome to encourage greater flow and encouraging adaptation to environment? This will allow proper selection to which seeds will flourish within provided parameters?

Purchase larger rockwool cubes to ensure stress free transplant, optimal root conditions, surface area.
Old 03-19-2014, 04:57 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 15, 12:00 PM: Increased development = Increased inputs.
Angled LED @ 45 in relation to selected seedlings, introducing direct HPS illumination (estimate ~200-300 umol @ 3 ft?)
FloraNova Bloom concentration increased to 300 PPM.
-Administering 1 ounce solution to individual sites and saturating turface (maintaining ideal moisture profile)


Charge rockwool with ~200 PPM solution next round?
Angle tray and cut hole for drain to waste application during seedling stage? Cover the entire top of tray with reflective material to deter algae and decrease evaporation?
Old 03-19-2014, 08:07 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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Although PH will stabilize w/ Jack's Hydroponic + CalNit, REGULATE during the seedling stage.
-Germinate within solely Turface? Maintain root development within specific volume. Eliminate transplant shock.
Improvement: Regulate concentration of solution opposed to PH. I will monitor seedlings to ensure proper assimilation of ppk solution. Transplanting when unifoliate develops. What if I receive clones? If rooted they will directly be introduced into the PPK sites @ 600ppm?

Algae Scare: Illumination from passive intake penetrating reservoir walls. Action: outfit reservoir to ensure light proof. PURCHASE resilient reservoir (Light proof, ideal measurements, fittings...). Also introducing food grade 35% H202 as precaution.

Insight: Algae growth does not directly affect root growth. The growth of algae will lead to clogged lines and other potential consequences that will annoy. The issue is mostly aesthetic, but excessive measures to eradicate can cause greater stress. I will intervene when required and remain proactive, but when problems arise I will not react quickly and instead evaluate all inputs and slowly change.
Old 03-19-2014, 08:16 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 16, 12:00 PM: Inputs! Elevate growth inputs/variables.
Introduced C02 @ 1,000 PPM
Lowered HPS to 2 ft. (Currently utilizing inefficient hood, although capable during seedling stage)
Positioned LED over one set of PPK modules (cannot achieve optimal spread over entire parameter, document growth characteristics relative to solely HPS illuminated seedlings).

Seedlings now nested within nutrient charged, moist Turface.
-600 PPM: 1/.67 Hydro/CalNit ratio, 3-1-4 ratio, PH:5.8
-Flood: 01:30:00
-Drain (equilibrium achieved): ~1 minute
-Temperature: ~84
-Humidity: ~70%

ps. Uni-foliate distorted.
Old 03-19-2014, 08:28 PM
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Too high EC - osmotic pressure > hydraulic pressure
-Resulting in visible stress - inefficient transpiration

PH micro management
-Misdiagnosis. Understand underlying problem...
Old 03-19-2014, 08:43 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 17
Lowered HPS ~2" = 22" distance (~500 umol? Many variable, Difficult to quantify myself; referenced Gavita publications. Purchase: MQ-200 Quantum Separate Sensor with Handheld Meter.)
Tightening flow restrictors to ensure optimal H20 flood within ppk units. Success.
Visible palmate development (multiple leaflets) (Potential excess salt accumulation? Very slight discoloration on tips.
Lowered HPS to ~20" (Seedling visibly orienting themselves toward the illumination)

Purchased Blockbuster 6", optimal footprint for 4X4. Install filter on ducting to ensure clean air flow. Waiting for adapter and ensuring "mild" intensity for early development.
Old 03-19-2014, 09:04 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 18
Received SunMaster Full Nova 600W bulb. I will not implement this technology during my current production; concerned with intensity, although the spectrum intrigues my plants.
-Confirmation (reputable, educated member): "PAR watts are just another flawed measure, maybe a little less flawed than lumens, but also less useful because it is only published for a few lamps and the published numbers are difficult to verify." (

Observed one degree increase within the tent, adjust fan controller to ensure stability (~84 degrees)
Visible progression of unifoliate distortion (not devastating) (nutrient allocation/assimilation disturbance) PH lowered to 5.3 (indicative? Algae development? Lack of buffering?)

p.s. Visited hydroponic store, maintained conversation with owner regarding the outdoor season and market effects due to California drought and potential supply consequences.
Old 03-19-2014, 09:11 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 19, 2014
Researching potential reservoir replacement (necessary water holding capacity @ desired height to maintain controlled water table, effective wicking capability, and saturation pulsing)
Purchased aquarium filter to clean solution of residual Turface particles.

Specific phenotype expressing signs of deficiency - brown sludge spots appearing near the tips of the unifoliate. I'll monitor the growth as the new foliage appears healthy.

Understanding importance of organized documentation for future reference.

p.s. Spent the majority of the night monitoring/observing growth. Concerned about the PH drops. Little research and observation leads me to believe it's algae growth (although PH dropping doesn't seem to correlate, could it be the R/O water and lack of carbonates?) The PH is still in an manageable range; I raise to ~6.1 (although this is in the main reservoir), and the solution balances at ~5.4.
Became very frustrated last night, as the sowing and proceeding germination progressed flawlessly, and upon transplant growth has been concerning, albeit consistent and near ideal conditions (too much illumination(~18" 600W)? C02(~1,000)? PPM(600 .5)? Humidity (~63% under bulb, ~75% edges of tent)?
Visible progression and resulting stress concerns me, as the resulting product will now yield less given my planned vegetative cycle. I must learn along the way.
Old 03-20-2014, 01:14 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 20: Confirmed imbalance
Conducting multiple PH tests daily because of initial displays of distortion on unifoliate. Now progressing into sludgy brown spotson the ends of two of four seedlings unifoliate (new growth seems undisturbed currently).
-Correction + lesson: Too much focus upon one variable.
New leaves appear, and physically feel healthy. Unifoliate felt akin to leather initially, although improving. The tips of the two seedlings appears to be orienting downward (slight curling).
-PH tests have concluded continual dropping of the solution (acidic). Potential signs of algae (exposed reservoir to illumination)? Variables?

Lowering temperature to ~82F
C02 concentration ~1,000
Water Temperature ~76
Smell of reservoir was beginning to concern me (very slight earth), so I made certain to eliminate light leak and administered ~1tsp food grade 35% H202. Now the smell is clean.
-Sterilization agent unnecessary within PPK. Natural growth beneficial? Sterilization agent certainly has consequences?

PPK units not completely flooding in one minute, as the top .5" is continually dry, below that the medium maintains ideal moisture. Not concerned.
Main reservoir presently does not have a lid, although the room has been thoroughly cleansed, I fear contamination, so change is coming.

Decreased pulse interval time from 1:30 to 00:45 upon reading inital posts by D9, and also understanding the availability of anions/cations (making certain elements are constantly available), assuring PH stability within module, refreshing 02.
-Is the excessive C02 concetration within the grow area decreasing the PH of the water? D9 states the benefit of the pulse is to inject fresh 02, but what if your atmospheric conditions are high in C02?

After administering ~1ml PH Up into main reservoir (raising from 5.4 to 6.1), Pulse occurred and the total PH now ~5.5. Again dosing 1ml PH up to raise to 6.1. (This excessive input of alkali is advised against, tarnishing the purity of the solvent). Two hours later: PH has DRASTICALLY DROPPED - from 6.1 to 5.0 - time for all out panic! This HAS TO do with the identified light leak from installing a reservoir that has an exterior that is penetrable by light. BECAUSE I ran these units for a week prior to transplant and the PH was steady @ 5.8, so the medium is not the culprit. I have stopped the light leak, input ~1tsp 35% H202 and purchased an aquarium filter which will arrive tomorrow.
-I have now input ~4ml GH PH Up total
-I purchased an Aquarium filter to rid of the minimal Turface particles present within the reservoir, and to prevent algae (will this affect nitrogen? They state nitrates, not certain the reactions, etc...).

Tasks: Visit Menards and purchase new reservoir (Brute Trash can, Lid, 2X Carlon Fittings, Nails for SCROG, Material for netting (Wire? Fabric? implications?). Two 5 Gallon buckets. Efficient container for R/O water transport (1-2 Gals at a time).
Old 03-20-2014, 03:10 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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"Growers conventionally increase PPM as plant size increases, because mechanically, the hydraulic pressure can overcome the possessed osmotic pressures related to increasing PPM".

"...we quickly say that its "overfert", but not necessarily it is. Maybe the plant may use those nutrients fine, the problem is the high EC around roots difficulties water uptake. Conceptually, they are different things." (knna, passive plant killer, pg 55, #836)
-Lesson: I posted this while observing insufficient growth within my personal garden, yet was too focused on an irrelevant input. This is a great example of explanation vs experience. I constantly expose myself to cannabis grow journals online, observing, analyzing, and ultimately learning from their experiences. What am I actually retaining? Is it the endless variables? Unique circumstances? Am I allocating time inefficiently? Don't act haste, observe variables, understand interactions, eliminate unlikely possibilities, measure inputs and document on sheet. Alter one input, observe reaction.

"Ca is an element which uptake is strongly linked to water uptake, and that if transpiration is reduced and Ca parcentage on the nutrient profile drops too, a deff of Ca may occur." (knna)

Day to Day: Scheduled leisure time
Benefit: Refreshing, good to do some socializing, some new perspective, maybe new enemies/friends? Smoked some dispensary purchased product: success! Feeling better. Also, gave the girls some alone time, I'm sure they were getting annoyed with all the micro management. Actually, better check on em, heh.
Discussing experiences and revelations with an amigo who recently embarked upon a "spiritual" journey. Weird stuff. Can relate, but do not participate frequently, I like to keep that door shut for extended durations and maintain "normal" daily activities.
Old 03-21-2014, 02:01 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 21: Awaiting Harmony
Relevant Quote: "...browning of edges, with shortage on the uptake of water. Notice that the shortage in water itself dont cause it directly it, but a reaction of the plant due to it. We can see that pattern typically on a overfertilized, but too when roots has been damaged (drown, extreme temperatures or ph, mechanical damage...) and when environmental parameters become extreme (resumed on VPD too high or too low, but generally its associated to too high)." (knna),
Action: Aquarium filter arriving today, will employ immediately (monitor operation, will run dry during pulse). Recommended 35% H202 dosage: ~2ml per Gal (Hmm). I will also be emptying the reservoir soon as well and replenishing with 600 PPM.

The seedling (runt) growing independent of the PPK unit is progressing at a slow (I've occasionally deprived of H20), but consistent rate. I may place this specimen within the PPK unit and monitor growth or progression of deficiency.

Put it in motion: Whew! Quick, minimize stress! Hectic.
1. Powered sump pump and drained the existing reservoir (seems to be contaminated: Light leak=Algae) Not a prominent aroma, but slight.
2. Cleaned reservoir of debris
3. Mixed new nutrient reservoir within 75F R/O 5 Gal bucket (Aquarium heater) 1/.67 Jacks (20 Gal = 3 tbsp Jack's, 8 Tsp CalNit = 650 PPM). Poor nutrients first, then remaining R/O filled containers (Residential R/O unit, can tap around 2.5 Gal every 2 hours)
4. Added nutrient and completely filled reservoir with R/O H20, also input 4ml 35% H202.
5. Installed Aquarium filter momentarily for cleansing of debris
6. Implemented new Blockbuster 6" Hood, Installed new filter on intake to ensure clean hood (replace ~2 months), gauged flow and temperature at given power relative to smaller hood (trial and error)
-PH: 5.6 intially, input 2ml GH PH Up, ~5.8 intially (check soon)
-Water Temperature: ~65 (allowing warming before pulse)
-Tent Conditions: Stable
-Plant conditions: Necrotic spots, appears one specific plant expressing calcium deficiency (water uptake problems?). Developing trifoliate expressing signs of distress on a few plants.

After circulating the water via flooding the units, the PH settled at 5.0, I again input 1ml PH Up, raising the PH to 5.5. I dislike adding this much product to the reservoir; the chemicals are not beneficial, but pose additional variables.

Frustration rising! Wishing I could employ an experienced mind to personally visit my facility and slap some sense into me.
Light leak solved and reactive measures taken (H202, Aquarium Filter). Now...Wait?

The result

Necrosis first appearing at tips of foliage on the oldest leaves. 3 of 4 displaying such necrosis, while the fourth is beginning to show signs of Calcium deficiency (underlying cause water uptake or PH). The one seedling independent of the PPK reservoir is showing no such signs (I thought initially it was mold, although it seems all would likely be affected by now?).

I have now input ~10 ml PH Up and ~10 ml H202 total to adjust the issue, but what is the underlying cause?

Recommended for Turface users: IMPLEMENT AQUARIUM FILTER INITIALLY! It greatly helps clean the inevitable debris that will accumulate. The filter washes easily (I also removed all the carbon contained within the filter; concerns regarding nitrate depletion (I don't know if these nitrates are the same, but w/e, took only a minute
Old 03-22-2014, 01:37 AM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 21
Aquarium filter effective! Benefit > Cost. Unit cost: $8.00 (including shipping, Prime eligible). The filter included is washable and collects a significant amount of debris (at 100GPH rate).
I washed the Turface twice (allowing drying period prior to running ~10 Gal tap water (~200 PPM) through each site)
Seedlings continue to display necrotic tissue; visible progression, albeit at a "slow" rate.

Ceasing H202 application March 23, as I'm not aware of dosage required for preventative measures.

Completely analyze the variables, consult individuals who utilize similar soilless culture tech(PPK)(as their insights will be relevant; each method requires adapted approaches).
Old 03-22-2014, 01:21 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 22: Monitoring PH
Adjusting variables and monitoring effect.
Expending significant energy to understand PH fluctuations.
Old 03-23-2014, 03:28 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 23: Patience.
Larger hood is much more difficult to cool relative to the smaller hood used prior. Now I must operate the 400CFM fan @ 80% power to maintain ~82F, opposed to ~80F @ 45%. Improved footprint.
Top ~5 inches of the media dry - slight moisture present at that depth.

I will be checking the PH again, but will allocate more time to the analysis of all inputs and plant signals. There is an underlying problem that I am not understanding. I will NOT be checking the PH, per the suggestion of individuals utilizing the same hydroponic method, and working with similar variables.

Leafs appear dry; high EC/PPM creating greater pressure than certain seedlings can overcome (~650 PPM). I read seedlings - post ample root development - could tolerate ~600 PPM in ideal conditions. Certainly strain dependent.
Action: drained 4 gallons and added back 4 gallons of R/O water.
-PPM within external reservoir = 550, post flood dilution= 600 PPM (make certain to conduct all measurements within reservoir post circulation)
Old 03-23-2014, 09:22 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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Underlying problem: the operator. What a "relief". I have read the entire PPK thread, and have progressed through ~40% of the original posting (containing the majority of concepts distinguishing this method), but must acquire personal experience prior to diagnosing problems. I must reevaluate my approach.
Commercial breeders releasing others work, often resulting in inferior product, or misrepresentations
Should I purchase IBL and landrace genetics (given proper documentation of origins and grows)? Am I better to purchase the commercial varieties that have best adapted to indoor production? Is this significant?
Old 03-24-2014, 06:43 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 24: Learning
Continually changing aquarium filter. Filtering residual debris from Turface. Working as advertised.
Every two hours I am emptying the residential R/O water tank and storing the H20 in buckets for reservoir change and gravity feed reservoirs.
The climate has remained stable and within ideal parameters.
Axial branching prominent and vigorous
Two phenotypes visibly advanced and better adapt to manage high solution levels.

When to increase EC?

Ordered: Hydroponic Food Production: A Definitive Guidebook of Soilless Food-Growing Methods. Very excited, although it is old, it will be beneficial to understand the advances made and governing principals. I frequently visit Barnes and Noble, reading gardening literature, and occasionally cannabis related print (primarily for market information, and some quality bud photography)

Business Degree + practical experience will assure opportunity for professional relevance in the legal cannabis industry (medicinal or recreational)
Old 03-25-2014, 04:09 PM
TerpeneTom TerpeneTom is offline
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March 25
Lowering Blockbuster 6" hood increased canopy temperature ~2 degrees.
Changed filter this morning, still filtering significant quantities of debris

Interested in vertically oriented bulb placement and the corresponding designs to ensure proper canopy temperature, penetration, intensity, cooling, C02 or air exchange...

Received new Reservoir (20 Gallon Brute Trash Can). @ ~10 inches it should hold ~10 Gallons. Light resistant, Durable construction, easy to clean, the bottom indent allows for ideal pump placement and uptake. Cleaned container with bleach solution.

Seedling independent of the ppk reservoir has responded as expected to the highly concentrated nutrient solution - expressing identical necrotic development. Confirmed over-fertilization.
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