Keep pourin on the nitro? huh?

I posted some pics of the Himalayan Gold over at GHS vendor forum, and francho tuned in and recommended that I keep pouring on the nitrogen into flowering as the "long branches would need it".

Believe me, I know cannabis is a high nitrogen plant and I shovel it on in big heavy frequent doses that I know from looking at the pics on this site, would scare the hell out of most of the growers here, But ive always drawn back when flowers appear, believing that continuing massive doses would increase leaf formation, stretch the buds and reduce potency.

I'm needin some input here guys. What do you think about the recommendation of continuing high nitro doses on into flowering? I aim to follow francho's recommendations ,but with clear trepidity as it goes against what I thought I new.




The feeding regimen for this plant...



has been 1 heaping teaspoon of 46-0-0, combined with 1 heaping tsp of Miracle Grow per gallon of water per week.



Continue that into flowering? I need your thoughts here folks

I dont think i would mess with it, i mean why? the plant is obviously doing very well, and unless you have a clone to do comparison test how will you even know if it made a diffrence? go with your gut, has heavy nitrogen ever done good things for you in budding? not for me.

I'm with you , SB. Seems to me once you get into flowering the need for N should be decreasing since you're no longer going for lush bushiness. Even with a quick releaser like urea some residual nitrogen will still be hanging around kinda banked in the soil, but I'd switch to a little P + k to finish those babies, maybe a fert with a lot of trace minerals to ward off any bizarre deficiencies waiting for their chance.
I don't know what's in Miracle Grow, maybe enuf P+K to do the trick: maybe the trace elements that may not even be needed; as always, read the label.

Bushiness ? The Prez? As in , yes your Bushiness.

i hear ya. i got 20-8-8 that says 1 tsp for every 5gal. i put i tsp for every 2liter bottle every weekend every plant. my plants love it. buuut. later. from what i hear it is best to put on the k. i got strawberry fert which is 12-12-36. ive been asking around for thoughts on this strawberry fert but have got little response. try it this year. keep dumping high nitro on a plant and see. its very hard to say. nitro hanging around like fishhead said. i believe it. lots of nitro in my fan leaves. i believe it. 12-12-36 will be good enough for all things at that time of year. i hope so. pick a plant and try to kill it. hahha. just jokin but what else can we do to learn? thanks little j.

I thought the point of cutting back on the N and increasing the P and K was for flower production rather than vegetive growth?

All I know is you don't wanna pump sativas with a lot of N during flower, haha

When Hydrasupplys hear about miracle grow they laugh at your face untill you laugh back in theirs.most of the sh!t they pushonu old stock they want gone.

Cha-ching my 2 cents

Cha-ching my 2 cents

I look at it like this, indoors a plant will stretch quite abit cuz the light gets cut back all at once, so they stretch all at once, and it will need the extra N and *K to build stem and stalk. Outdoors it happens alot slower, so the need for extra N and K isn't as great. I think I'd be more worried about salt build up changing the ph around the plant and it not bein able ta feed right alil later down the road in flower. All that N has ta be chelated ta somethin, and that would prolly be a salt of some kind, same with the miricle grow. Anyhoo, bottom line, once they've set bud they're not gonna be usein near as much N. Hell you know this stuff Silverback, you sure you aint jus joshin us? lol Later bud, good luck. BC

silverback, whatever you do, do not keep feeding the flowering plant the same ammount of nitrogen as you fed it while it was vegetating. plants in flower do need nitrogen, sure, but not in the same ammounts as a vegetating plant, mainly because the structural part of the plant (for lack of a better term) has been mostly established, the development is now of fruits/flowers rather than general plant-mass, and what we have observed is that for the optimal production of fruit/flower, aiding the feeding with extra Potassium is what's up... perhaps try adding a bit more nitrogen to see what happens, but not as much... and yes, you freaked me out with that picture of blue dust

Paz

I hear ya Brad, ive never seen any positive effects from high nitro in flower - fishead, little j, Ganico, Wooden Eye, thats what Ive believed for years now. Its comforting to hear you guys confirm it. The last how -to book I read on cannabis was in the 70's and i thought maybe there was something new that i didn't know. In fact, i go with something like a 12-40-5 or 15-30-10 during OD flower, not the 30-10-10 or so that i use in veg.
Mel franks used to preach that too much nitro in flower decreases potency. I still believe him but us old guys can become outdated.

You're right B.C. It is somehting i know, or at least i thought I knew. Check the thread man in GHS, he said it. Honestly, ive always enjoyed just a slight Nitro deficiency during late flower as it tends to yellow the plant just a tiny bit and levels out that black appearance that indica buds can take on in the last week or so.

Hey up Silver, I think everyone here got it right,adding N in flower will boost N levels in the bud & seed. This could be good if your making breadmaking flour with the seeds lol. Two points I think the smaller bud leaves & stalks get stronger & thicker texture, & will add a bonfire like bouquet to the flavour, not nice. Second high Nitrogen in the bud will WITHOUT DOUBT increase the chances of mould. Fungus needs/loves Nitrogen. Lush green plants at a time of year when everything is dying back & starting to rot = mouldtarget.

I agree with your logic Paz, ist a question of the plants priorities. and the need for high growth/nitrogen usage changes in latter life. Flower production is the new priority

Hey farmaz2, I hadn't event considered the mould issues but your'e absolutely right.

hey silverback, let me ask you a question about the fertilizer shown in the pic, I googled it to see whether or not it was petrol based or from other mineral sources, I could not find the info, do you know? however, I found thr following at their web-site and I could not understand:

10. Can NutriSphere-N be added to manures?
There is no recommendation for use of NutriSphere-N with manure
http://www.southernstates.com/0108_nutrisphere.shtml

how is that so? I don't understand why is there no recomendation to use the product with cow manure?

thank you

Not from Sb but...Ammonia and Carbon Dioxide.
If you want to stay a little more organic try Milorganite, originally made from
Milwaukee pee.

Tell us more about the Milorganite fisheadbob.

Paz. the product you see from Southern States is a commercial form of nitrogen sold to farmers as I am. Southern states is a agricultural supplier to farmers across the souther US. The product is usally delivered to the farm in a spreader with instruction for application by the ton per acreage. Here, its only sold in 50lb bags or by the ton. It's pure ammonium nitrate and is water soluble. Often in the US, you have to sign to purchase the product due to its very explosive nature, although purchasing only 50lbs is not a suspicious act at all, but i suspect it can only be purchased at farm supply outlets..

There is a very similar product sold for small gardeners by Epsoma, called ammonium sulfate that is also very effective. I use it as well. the only reason i use the urea is that it is readily availabel and much cheaper when purchase in 50lb quantities. 50lbs would last the average cannabis grower several years. Search "Epsoma", their product is the same and readily available in more reasonable quanities.

thank you fishheadbob and silverback, I found some more info on Ammonia, Urea and Carbon Dioxide

"Nitrogen fertilizer prices have been high for several months now. In some cases, the price has gone up 50 percent or more, but why is it increasing? The price of nitrogen fertilizers is directly related to the price of natural gas (methane). Manufacturing 1 ton of anhydrous ammonia fertilizer requires 33,500 cubic feet of natural gas. This cost represents most of the costs associated with manufacturing anhydrous ammonia. When natural gas prices are $2.50 per thousand cubic feet, the natural gas used to manufacture 1 ton of anhydrous ammonia fertilizer costs $83.75. If the price rises to $7.00 per thousand cubic feet of natural gas, the cost of natural gas used in manufacturing that ton of anhydrous ammonia rises to $234.50, an increase to the manufacturer of $150.75.

Nitrogen fertilizer prices have been high for several months now. In some cases, the price has gone up 50 percent or more, but why is it increasing? The price of nitrogen fertilizers is directly related to the price of natural gas (methane). Manufacturing 1 ton of anhydrous ammonia fertilizer requires 33,500 cubic feet of natural gas. This cost represents most of the costs associated with manufacturing anhydrous ammonia. When natural gas prices are $2.50 per thousand cubic feet, the natural gas used to manufacture 1 ton of anhydrous ammonia fertilizer costs $83.75. If the price rises to $7.00 per thousand cubic feet of natural gas, the cost of natural gas used in manufacturing that ton of anhydrous ammonia rises to $234.50, an increase to the manufacturer of $150.75.

Here's where natural gas comes in. In 1910, scientists discovered that they could combine natural gas and the atmosphere at very high temperature (about 900 ºF) and pressure (between 200 and 1,000 atmospheres) to create anhydrous ammonia gas. This technique is called the Claude-Haber ammonia synthesis process. Natural gas is used in the process two ways: to react with the atmosphere and supply hydrogen to the reaction, and create the high temperature and pressure necessary for the process to take place.

What if you use a form of nitrogen different from anhydrous ammonia? Why should your nitrogen fertilizer costs increase? That's another good question. Most of the other popular forms of nitrogen fertilizer are made with anhydrous ammonia. Urea is formulated by a reaction between anhydrous ammonia and carbon dioxide at high temperature and pressure. Ammonium nitrate is formulated by combining anhydrous ammonia and nitric acid in a very corrosive manufacturing climate. Solution liquid fertilizers (28 to 32 percent nitrogen) are composed of one-half urea and one-half ammonium nitrate. It's pretty hard to apply a nitrogen fertilizer formulation that doesn't have natural gas in its manufacturing process.

What can you do about high nitrogen prices? Should you discontinue using nitrogen fertilizers or reduce rates until the prices come down? One thing you can do is collect soil samples to see if they have high levels of residual nitrogen. If so, you can reduce or even eliminate the use of nitrogen fertilizers without reducing yield. The very wet winter we had this year makes it unlikely that large amounts of nitrogen carried over, but it doesn't hurt to check. To test for residual nitrogen, take both a 0- to 6-inch soil sample and a 6- to 12-inch sample.

Other things you can do include realistically figuring your yield goals and fertilizing to meet these without using excessive amounts. Check your soil pH and apply lime if needed. Plants use nitrogen less efficiently in very acidic soils. Use the recommended rates of phosphorus and potassium. Plants use nitrogen more efficiently when these aren't limited."
http://www.noble.org/Ag/Soils/NitrogenPrices/Index.htm

from Wikipedia... Milorganite is MILwaukee ORGANic NITrogen . Sold a lot of places.
Usually 5-2-0 depending on how many Millers and Brotwursts the locals have consumed.
Many other municipalities have jumped on the human sludge bandwagon* and sell it under various names. Many people have reservations about human sludge and consumable crops, I don't know how milorganite fits into that, there's probably studies about which I know nothing.

*the human sludge bandwagon. Was that a float in the 4th of July parade?

Paz Verde, Re your nitrogen, fertilizer, and cost concerns. You should be able to pick up a soil test kit for $15 or $20 to do your own testing. I occasionally send a soil sample off to the state land grant college for my more traditional crops. For only $10 they send me a very detailed and comprehensive report about ph and nutrient levels with recommendations specific to my planned crop. I once then did my own soil test to see how I compared against the professionals. Hope there is something similar in your part of the world.

I wouldnt go to crazy with that 46%.....and have never thought of adding it to water like the soluble type(MG). That type is a side dressing/top application farmers use. VERY strong stuff, and honestly couldnt imagine that needing so much weekly. I plant them sprinkle 10-10-10 around liberally, then may hit them with some potash in flower. Seems to work, I think your growth is more the constant water, however thats just my 2 cents.

fishheadbob, so milorganite is pee basically... i kid you not, but i already have a couple of crops under my belt using me own pee, not bad at all, gotta watch your diet while using the pee to fertilize though i always thought hehehe... used it for the vegging stage only, dilluted to 10 parts water, 1 part pee.

Actually HK, i used to use the Epsoma product -Ammonium sulfate which is 26-0-0. I switched to the urea simply because its cheaper readily available to me and just as effective. Honestly, for size and eventual yield, there just isnt any arguement in my mind: use high nitro in the veg stage/increase yield by a minumum of 25% over not using it. To me, thats a law of cannabis i learned years ago. Its held true without exception. Underperformance really shows up in the yield dept and I don't believe any grower of any strain will harvest as much as 2lbs without it. 12 footers don't normally just show up. Over in the Greenhouse seeds section, the amounts of nitro that Greenhouse is using in their grows is comparable to my use..
You ought to give it a try man. Youre missin out. (its almost too late this year though,June thru july, and it doesnt apply to indoor
so you'll have to wait until next year.

It sounds to me like milorgranite is human shit fisheadbob. yuk.
Im big on non-feces based compost.

silverback said:

It sounds to me like milorgranite is human shit fisheadbob. yuk.
Im big on non-feces based compost.

Click to expand...

Correctomundo, that's essentially what it is. It has been composted somehow.

We gotta get over our squeamishness. It's fine to put tons of cowshit or pigshit on a field, but all of us including me, at least in North America, get a little antsy using human waste in its' natural state. Of course cows don't have hepatitis or aids, etc. On the other hand, we aren't helping matters using fertilizers made from natural gas or petroleum, either.
Over the years I've been covered in a lot of manure. It was just part of the game, no big deal. But if I got some diaper poo on me I'd scrub like a Doc going into surgery while my wife laughed her ass off at me.