10 GRAND, 10 LIGHTS, NO TIME!

smurfin'herb · Apr 26, 2008

Ok the title says it all. I have ranch style house at my disopal, and 10 g's.I MUST HAVE THIS UP AND RUNNING IN TWO WEEKS! I will only be able to visit this house every three days, so i need it to be able to sustain itself for 5 days if needed tho. I wanna put 10 600s in a 15x11' master bed, and whatever else i need for veg in a 5x11 2nd bedroom. I will be running all 10 lights on a 240v line. I have never done something of this size indoors before SO IF U HAVE EXPERIENCE IN 6000+ WATT GROWS U COULD BE A HUUUUGE HELP! Even if u dont, any info is appreciated! I dont have time to search for all this stuff i need to know, but i will say i do know a lil about a lot on this site (and cannabis in growing in general) and have been pullin off 4x8 grows with 600's with ease for a while so i can grow and will be on the same page with most of ur comments and answers.IF YOUVE MADE IT THIS FAR , MOST LIKLEY U ARE WILLING TO HELP ME THIS DESIGN AND I GREATLY THANK YOU! I will post this grow for all to follow if you guys will help me. strains are bubblegum,g-13, g-13xdeep chunk, hawaiian indica, 3 lui phenos, dumpster(ohio native)xblueberry, and possibly chronic and trainwreck.

Ok i wanna do a run to waste drip on coco blocks/slabs in a 15x11 bedroom with 10 600's scrog style, veg room is 5x11.

Heres some q's for ya....

Is it even possible to stuff 10 600's in a 15x11 space and cool it?
if so how many btu's will i need?
Will i need some type of high power relay?
Is the veg room big enough to supply the flower room?
is it easier to use the drip tubs that perfectly fit the slabs and set those up somehow, or just to buy like 3 4x8's and set them in those?
whats the best coco blocks and slabs brand? (as far as no prep)
Does this sound efficient so far? or could it be easier?
what size res?
the tap is 575ppm(@0.7cal) well water, what can i get to cut that down to make it manageable for a drip system? using straight r/o wastes too much water and time so is there any pre-filter units out there or something like that to help bring my ppm's to reasonable level without wasting 2 to 3 gallons for every one of pure r/o?
ILL POST MORE AS WE GO, BUT THIS SHOULD GET US STARTED. NOTHING IS IN STONE SO FEEL FREE TO MAKE ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE! HOPEFULLY WHEN THIS IS DONE, YOULL BE ABLE TO SEE YOUR IDEAS AND DESIGNS COME TO LIFE! THE FLOOR IS YOURS! :headbange

smurfin'herb · Apr 26, 2008

cmon now dont be shy! im sitting here waiting!

GorillaGreenz · Apr 26, 2008

I'm gonna guess you're going to need a humidifier a big ass vent fan with a huge carbon scrubber going, multiple osilating fans and air conditioning if you can get it.

NorCalFor20 · Apr 26, 2008

the user yahmaha_fan1 has a nice 9kw grow maybe he could shoot you some tips
last i heard his nerves were getting to him and he wasn't sure he wanted to keep it up im not sure what he decided to do but im sure he def. has some tips that could help you

smurfin'herb · Apr 26, 2008

yep, in fact, im gonna need quite a few fans with 10 lights bro! Any idea on btu's for the a/c for that kinda setup and space?

Grizz · Apr 26, 2008

anything is possible, I would go through the grow room and design fourm pages and find what your looking for. I personaly like the stadium grows. any grow takes full time attion. I couldent imagine leaving one for 5 days. In your flower room I would split it in half and run a flip flop on your lights

smurfin'herb · Apr 26, 2008

NorCalFor20 said:
the user yahmaha_fan1 has a nice 9kw grow maybe he could shoot you some tips
last i heard his nerves were getting to him and he wasn't sure he wanted to keep it up im not sure what he decided to do but im sure he def. has some tips that could help you

Maybe someone who knows him could invite him on over here. Ive seen his thread and can relate since i also have a grow in a basement. If your out there yamaha, and not too busy, i could use a hand. Or maybe just shoot a few tips my way. l am reallllllly worried bout power usage and wonder how u deal with it...generator,stealing, or just plain pay the bill? and how much is the bill?

stke_fingas · Apr 26, 2008

sup dude!
to tell you the truth the odd's are against you, moving up to commercial is huge! i'd advise to run tables if you have the room. 50w/sqft and a huge res. leaving the grow for 3 days is just crazy IMO. that takes skill to be able to run a show that large every 3 days. i'm not saying it can't be done but for the first go around?... you can go to home de pot and pick up a filter to help out with the ppm of your water.
you don't have the time to set up much so tables are the best bet, and easiest IMO.

about the power bill... every bust i have ever seen on the news was about growers stealing power. this sets a very bad image for the rest of us and is morally wrong. i know pot is illegal and most look at it in a negative way already, but stealing power just adds to the soup our government is boiling. if you pay the bill on time and don't stink up the area when the meter reader comes it "should" be all good. i've personally had $500+ power bills and they never batted a eye in my direction. i crapped my pants when i seen it and paid it asap.

i wouldn't fill all the tables at one time, 10 tables is a LOT to harvest at once. tackling that trimming task alone is nuts! remember rule #1!!!!

lollipop lollipop oh la la lollipop! fuck trimming small shit, lollipop those bitches and save yourself the trouble. trimming big nugs is way easier than fucking with popcorn. a bow of popcorn would take 2 days to trim or a bow of fat tops would take hours. or start making hash... lol

i can't say enough about smell! if you can smell it,believe me everyone smells it too.

I'd run lights at night and use the outside "cooler" air to your advantage. running during the day would add to the power bill. seal every light with silicone BEFORE putting them up cause little leaks will smell dank when heated up by the light. proper duct work will save you in power too, most lights are 6" so run a 10" main line and 6" feeder lines off that on both IN-n-OUT.

anyway, i've ran a decent size grow and i hope you got some balls my friend! it takes a gut of steel and balls of gold to be mersh.

most of all good luck! :wave:

Stealthy · Apr 26, 2008

smurfin'herb said:
Heres some q's for ya....

Is it even possible to stuff 10 600's in a 15x11 space and cool it?
Yes. That works out to 165 sf w/ 6000w of light = 36 watts per square foot. I would try for at LEAST 50w per sf.

if so how many btu's will i need?
The general rule for non air cooled hoods is 4000btu per 1000 watts.

Will i need some type of high power relay?
The wiring is all up to you. There are some knowledgeable people on here that can answer electrical questions much better than me so I'll leave this one to them.

Is the veg room big enough to supply the flower room?
It's gonna be tight but you may be able to come up with something crafty.

is it easier to use the drip tubs that perfectly fit the slabs and set those up somehow, or just to buy like 3 4x8's and set them in those?
Not sure about this one...Never used coco blocks or drip

whats the best coco blocks and slabs brand? (as far as no prep)
??Someone??

Does this sound efficient so far? or could it be easier?
Your watts per square foot are a lil low IMO. Your idea of leaving for days scares me...fluctuating PH scares me but since you'll be running to waste your PH issues probably won't be as bad as if you were recirculating. Workable...yes. Efficient...that's yet to be determined

what size res?
??Someone??

the tap is 575ppm(@0.7cal) well water, what can i get to cut that down to make it manageable for a drip system?
You've got 10 g's? Purchase two large R/O systems and hook em up. Find a plastic / container company in the general area and purchase a few 55 gal poly drums for 20 or 30 bucks each. Hook the 55 gal drums together at the bottom with 1/2" tubing and unions (you can use botanicares line of bulkheads). Hook up a float valve and hook your R/O systems to your drum and let them fill. The float will cut the system off when is has filled all the 55 gal drums. It sounds like a pain but it is SUPER easy.
Quality water cannot be overlooked, especially when going commercial! I've seen more people have problems because of shitty tap/well water than anything else! This should be a priority!

using straight r/o wastes too much water and time so is there any pre-filter units out there or something like that to help bring my ppm's to reasonable level without wasting 2 to 3 gallons for every one of pure r/o?
My R/O system is suppose to be a 100 gpd unit. Realistically I get 40 GPD @ 50lbs pressure and it takes about 5 gallons of tap water to make one gallon of R/O water (other systems may be dif). If I left my system running non-stop for one week (7 days) it would produce 280 gal of R/O water using a total of 1425 gallons per week. This is in line with what what a family of 4 would use per week so water consumption shouldn't be suspicious ( I know your on a well - this is speaking of water usage for city water)Most municipalities (in my area) calculate 50 to 70 gal per person per day.
As far as wasted time...not with my method. I always have 100's of gallons of fresh R/O at the ready with no wait or wasted time. It's all fully automated w/ a float!!
Anyway...invest in a couple R/O systems. You will thank yourself later.

Hope this helps in some small way.

PharmaCan · Apr 26, 2008

You are going to need electrical relay switches to turn that many lights on at one time. Once you have the specs for the equipment you'll be using, ask again about the relays and someone will point you in the right direction. The relays are a pretty straightforward installation, but you need to know what you will be switching in order to figure out which relays to use.

PC

smurfin'herb · Apr 26, 2008

Stealthy said:
smurfin'herb said:

Heres some q's for ya....

Is it even possible to stuff 10 600's in a 15x11 space and cool it?
Yes. That works out to 165 sf w/ 6000w of light = 36 watts per square foot. I would try for at LEAST 50w per sf.
[/I]keep in mind that there will be walkways in these areas, that means the square footage for lighting purposes is reduced, should put me somewhere reasonable as far as watts per square foot.
if so how many btu's will i need?
The general rule for non air cooled hoods is 4000btu per 1000 watts.
i will be using daystar a/c hoods so what do i need for that?
Will i need some type of high power relay?
The wiring is all up to you. There are some knowledgeable people on here that can answer electrical questions much better than me so I'll leave this one to them.

Is the veg room big enough to supply the flower room?
It's gonna be tight but you may be able to come up with something crafty.

is it easier to use the drip tubs that perfectly fit the slabs and set those up somehow, or just to buy like 3 4x8's and set them in those?
Not sure about this one...Never used coco blocks or drip

whats the best coco blocks and slabs brand? (as far as no prep)
??Someone??

Does this sound efficient so far? or could it be easier?
Your watts per square foot are a lil low IMO. Your idea of leaving for days scares me...fluctuating PH scares me but since you'll be running to waste your PH issues probably won't be as bad as if you were recirculating. Workable...yes. Efficient...that's yet to be determined

what size res?
??Someone??

the tap is 575ppm(@0.7cal) well water, what can i get to cut that down to make it manageable for a drip system?
You've got 10 g's? Purchase two large R/O systems and hook em up. Find a plastic / container company in the general area and purchase a few 55 gal poly drums for 20 or 30 bucks each. Hook the 55 gal drums together at the bottom with 1/2" tubing and unions (you can use botanicares line of bulkheads). Hook up a float valve and hook your R/O systems to your drum and let them fill. The float will cut the system off when is has filled all the 55 gal drums. It sounds like a pain but it is SUPER easy.
Quality water cannot be overlooked, especially when going commercial! I've seen more people have problems because of shitty tap/well water than anything else! This should be a priority!

using straight r/o wastes too much water and time so is there any pre-filter units out there or something like that to help bring my ppm's to reasonable level without wasting 2 to 3 gallons for every one of pure r/o?
My R/O system is suppose to be a 100 gpd unit. Realistically I get 40 GPD @ 50lbs pressure and it takes about 5 gallons of tap water to make one gallon of R/O water (other systems may be dif). If I left my system running non-stop for one week (7 days) it would produce 280 gal of R/O water using a total of 1425 gallons per week. This is in line with what what a family of 4 would use per week so water consumption shouldn't be suspicious ( I know your on a well - this is speaking of water usage for city water)Most municipalities (in my area) calculate 50 to 70 gal per person per day.
As far as wasted time...not with my method. I always have 100's of gallons of fresh R/O at the ready with no wait or wasted time. It's all fully automated w/ a float!!
Anyway...invest in a couple R/O systems. You will thank yourself later.
im actually experimenting with mixing r/o at different ratios with my tap water right now. Reason being, i currently have been using straight r/o, and i have been experiencing ph problems (im in coco in pots) and its because
whatever u add to the pure water influences it greatly! Most main fertilizers have a buffer in them, (usually the part b when using two part formulas), and when the plants use up the nutrients the buffer gets smaller and smaller, leaving the pure r/o ph to be influenced by any additional supplements or additives that havent been used up as fast as the npk and so on. Or if nothing is present it will probably go back to its original ph level (which mine is 6.5 unbubbled and as soon as u add oxygen it goes down to 5.5) and i always have a high runoff ph around 6.5 3 days after feeding. My tap is around 250 ppm 7.5 to 8 ph it has a very good buffering qualities from what ive read, so if use that and set a ph on it, then it should hopefully stay more consistent. Does this sound like it should work?
Hope this helps in some small way.

Click to expand...

very much! thank you!
NOT TOO CRAFTY WITH COMPUTERS, DUNNO WHY MY RESPONES ARE IN THE BLUE BOX ABOVE BUT I DID REPLY TO YOUR ANSWERS/SUGGESTIONS IN THE BLUE QUOTE BOX ABOVE.

smurfin'herb · Apr 26, 2008

PharmaCan said:
You are going to need electrical relay switches to turn that many lights on at one time. Once you have the specs for the equipment you'll be using, ask again about the relays and someone will point you in the right direction. The relays are a pretty straightforward installation, but you need to know what you will be switching in order to figure out which relays to use.

PC

Im thinkin i should turn that main room into 2 seperate ones with 5 lights in each on a flip to keep a constant draw. Hey DB wirenutz, didnt u tell me that there was somethin special u had to do in order to make digital ballasts work on a flip? somethin about timers i think... Will i still need a relay to turn on 5 240volt 600watt lumateks?

Hey stick figas, I think uve been misled, i am running only 3 4x8's (or something equivalent to it) , not 10! I AM running 10 lights. sorry if i confused u. thanks for the input!

ChaosCatalunya · Apr 27, 2008

I think Lumatek digital ballasts have a softer startup than a magnetic ballast, but it is still significant and needs a relay of the correct rating for the job, inc. the initial load surge. Over specifying is always good, especially if you are away a lot.

Canna COCO stuff is excellent, they have been at it for ages and it works well.

Drippers are crap IMO, often they block up just for fun within days, I would use a straight unrestricted 15mm to 4mm tube system - just like a dripper system, but without the drip restrictors/labyrinth "buttons" popped in to the 15mm hose, just plain 4mm pipe. Water comes out faster, so you water for less time, but it always come out. If you use drippers, you may well waste hours of your gardening time messing around seeing which drippers are still dripping when you visit your garden.

The mother room sounds big enough, a 12' x 10' flowering table would e a nice use of your 10 x 600w lights, dont get blinded by greed, you need to move around in there and look after things, less is often more.

Good luck, do not trust anybody, do not tell anyone, do not get caught.

DIGITALHIPPY · Apr 27, 2008

sounds like you need to do more reaserch.
smaller grows have taken me longer to 'setup'
im hoping you have a source for say 100 clones.
also think 1k's not 600's unless you have them already.
more light from each hood, better penetration, and less hoods needed.

id go for soil ffof in buckets or rubermaid tubs, ala-tree style.
soil is forgiving and can last a few days while your gone.
ive had situations where i come home and hydro is all wack. needs hours of work, right now because the crop wont last another 2 hours....

REZDOG · Apr 27, 2008

Getting the grow together isn't the hard part.
It'll likely take you a year to dial in, since you're not familiar with the setup already, and aren't a master grower,(your questions clearly show this,no offense!) so be prepared with backup capital (another $5K,imo,is a place to start) and plenty of time-$10K ain't sh*t,my friend,with all the fresh overhead and "unforseen expenses".
Really.
Also,not "looking in" for three days at a time in a new grow is a recipe for disaster, I suggest thinking along different lines,or be ready to eat sh*t with a spoon.
Factoid: Grow houses that are not lived in get busted rooughly 10x more than houses with inhabitants.
Also,you must grow a single strain/clone if you're gonna' run a commercial Op,it's simply not efficient any other way.

All the Best.

My C99:

Daemon · Apr 27, 2008

^^I think that about sums it up.

I've been involved with outdoor commercial for years and after making the move to indoor(small grows for personal/a little $$), I can tell you that you're getting into a lot! 2 weeks to setup 6000w, and everything else? Hmmmm.......
Listen to Rez...

DB2004 · Apr 27, 2008

smurfin'herb said:
Im thinkin i should turn that main room into 2 seperate ones with 5 lights in each on a flip to keep a constant draw. Hey DB wirenutz, didnt u tell me that there was somethin special u had to do in order to make digital ballasts work on a flip? somethin about timers i think... Will i still need a relay to turn on 5 240volt 600watt lumateks?

A 5 ballast flip/loadcenter is what you need. Two seperate AUBE timers, one for powering off and on digital ballasts, other timer for 12/12 flip cycle. If you want one built, let me know.

Best Regards

DB

gottt it · Apr 27, 2008

your gonna need more than 10k ... id start out smaller and work your way up to having a whole house dedicated to this especially since you wont live there and im sure you have other bills to pay .. time is money and every day you waste the closer you are to going bankrupt ..

just my 2 cents.. best of luck

yamaha_1fan · Apr 27, 2008

I agree, its alot of work setting up a room. 2 weeks seems like a short time span. At the least get the veg room setup and get some seeds/clones and get started. Then you can get the flower room going.

I cant comment on the coco/drip setup, as I have never used it. Ebb and flo tables is probably the easiest and fastest setup. With the tables I believe you can still do Scrog, you dont have to do SOG. If the plant #'s dont scare you, consider SOG, single cola plants, no LSTing etc. The batch coming down tomorrow is looking great, they were lollipopped and have no popcorn, just big fat colas. Either way tables is probably the easiest to setup and maintain. Run one rez per table, 2 tables max. Try to run as big of a rez as possible. I run 200 gallons PER 4x11 table. I could probably run the whole cycle and have to refill it once. I have been dumping and refilling 3 times cause of nutrient changes though. Also a big rez keeps things more stable. A must for unsupervised grows.

3 days w/o a visit? Not really an issue. I have left mine for 3 days w/o issue. PH drift? So what. I check my PH once a week and adjust it as needed. Once everything is built and setup, you will want to monitor carefully for leaks, drainage issues, electrical overloads etc. But once setup, it should run w/o much attention. Can something happen, sure. A bulb can go bad, a pump can fail, a breaker could trip leaving lights off, etc. But you cant really do anything about it.

For electrical, I use the Intermatic WH40 timers. One timer runs 5K and the other 4K. No issue. But I am not running a flip.

A year to dial in? I dont think that long. Well that depends on how you grow. My 3 tables are perpetual so I have a harvest every 3 weeks. I can try different things on each table and see how it goes.

Dont run tons of strains. Pick a few, run different tables and rezes for each, and find the one that suits your needs. For me thats best yielder.

15x11 Dont forget, you need room to get around. FIgure out your tables and sizes, then figure how to layout your lights. Just make sure your light is covering the appropiate sq footage under it. Check out Picos thread, he did an awesome job on testing different hoods.

Air cooling is a must.Or you will have to vent the room or run some huge A/C's

I just pay the bill.

Any other questions, just ask

yamaha_1fan · Apr 27, 2008

GorillaGreenz said:
I'm gonna guess you're going to need a humidifier a big ass vent fan with a huge carbon scrubber going, multiple osilating fans and air conditioning if you can get it.

You will need a DEhumidifier. I run a LG 65 pint unit and so far so good.

10 GRAND, 10 LIGHTS, NO TIME!

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