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Old 04-23-2008, 11:50 AM   #1
Kilbud
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CO2 cotrollers which work!!!!!!!

This thread is being started to help growers choose a CO2 controller that works. I myself purchased a CAP PPM 3 controller and have been tormented by it's performance. The PPM 3 controller will work fine in many grow rooms, but justNo digital ballasts just save yourself torment and don't try it with digital ballasts.

There's a more compelling reason to maybe look at other products and that is The PPM3 and 2a were both released in 1998. So the product has been sold for 10 years with no major advancements or changes. It's not like CAP is saving us any money by discounting a product which I'm sure all of their design and build out expenses have been recovered many years ago. I think CAP's a great company and I'm not writing this to slam them, but they should have a significant disclaimer concerning the PPM3 and digital ballasts "They Don't"

I have lost many hours of sleep and had damage to my crop by the controller locking up at 1450PPM and having my generator run continuously. Not to mention the many hours spent tying up heavy buds and Colas which were falling over due to teperatures exceeding 90 degrees in my room.

CAP says the PPM2a doesn't have any problems locking up like the PPM3. They recommend using this product with digital ballasts and that's ok if your using a reg 1 & co2 tank. If your using a generator like me though why pay $170 more just to get a product which works. You need to disable the fuzzy logic when you use a generator.

I called most of the companies and distributors out there looking for CO2 controllers that works with digital ballasts. I think I've found the product which I'm going to buy to replace the PPM3. The manufacture is Sentinel and the product is the CPPM-1.

1st lets talk about Sentinel. The engineer I spoke with was 1 of the original engineers on the PPM3 &2A. He knew the products intimately and was able to discuss differences between CAP & Sentinel. He said he and other workers left CAP in 2004.

PPM3 design: The PPM3 is a basic CO2 sensor wired into a trigger. There is no sheilding in the PPM3. The PPM2A he said was designed 1st and utilizes the same CO2 sensor they use at Sentinel. The PPM3 uses a more basic CO2 sensor. He said there is no sheilding either in the PPM2a but using the upgraded CO2 sensor might account for CAP's claim that it doesn't lock up with digital ballasts.

Sentinels design CPPM1: The controller and sensor are in different housings and the CO2 sensor is sheilded. One real nice feature is the photo sensor which allows me to eliminate a timer. The price point of the CPPM1 is $500 and the fuzzy logic is built into it. Sentinel's installation manual deals directly with digital ballasts recommending the mounting of the controller be 8 feet from the digital ballasts. The CO2 monitor has a 15' cable to connect to the controller. The only warning on mounting the monitor is not to get it wet and not to run it's cable close to HID light cables coming from the ballasts.

I'm attaching a link to the installtion manual for the Sentinel CPPM1. I really like the fact that Sentinel deals with significant issues in their installation manual and not making you call to find out the bad news after you've bought and installed the product.

http://www.growgps.com/CPPM-1instruction11-07.pdf

Hope this helps people looking to add CO2 to their system. I just ordered my CPPM1 and hope to have it in a few days.

I want to reitterate my statement earlier. This post is not being written to slam CAP. I think they are a great company with many great products. I will very possibly buy other products from them in the future. I just think they could have and should have dealt with known issues with digital ballasts up front. That would have saved me lot's of torment.

Peace all, KB
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Last edited by Kilbud; 04-23-2008 at 11:56 AM.. Reason: Installation Manual
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:21 PM   #2
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You can't go wrong with a Sentinel... I can tell you to be careful with purchasing any GreenAir products at your local store! They are out of bussiness from what i have been told and most stores will not tell you that just to try and sell you there left over stock!!
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:08 PM   #3
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Sentinel

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Originally Posted by asher1er
You can't go wrong with a Sentinel... I can tell you to be careful with purchasing any GreenAir products at your local store! They are out of bussiness from what i have been told and most stores will not tell you that just to try and sell you there left over stock!!
Hey Asher,

Thank's for the feedback about Green Air. I wasn't interested in buying any of their products. Like CAP they are really old designs. Nice to here your feedback about my choice to choose Sntinel CPPM1.

Peace, KB
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:08 PM   #4
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Philosophical garbage

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Originally Posted by Ty-Stik
For all you all, sometimes tried and true works better than a salesman shoving his product down your throat for monetary gain. One day as YOU mature in your skills, perhaps you might realize that performance is worth more than the salesmanship of some SOB Hawking a product that is no different from the Products previously offered by other vendors.

When YOU know the difference then you are on the way to being a Journeyman Grower..............until then YOU are still an easily influenced NEWBY that has never met JACK, Doesn't knows JACK and is unlikely to KNOW JACK until YOU Study the art of the craft YOU SEEK. I am speaking of "Jack Shit", a well known individual.
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I really don't know where your comming from with that philosophical garbage above. All I know is I have a product that doesn't work and it is as you said "tried and true works better". Or that's what I thought before "a salesman shoving his product down your throat for monetary gain."

All I know is I need a CO2 controller which works in my room and I believe I found one. I wrote my previous post only to possibly save someone else looking for a CO2 contoller the torment which I went through. I have no interest in remaking this industry. I just want something which works. If you don't see a fundemental difference in what I stated between the CAP and Sentinel products then you need to have your eyes checked. If the Sentinel product fails which I don't believe it will I will return and Bow to you.

Peace, KB
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Old 04-23-2008, 06:54 PM   #5
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GreenAir is out of business? Any anyone confirm this?

My local shop carries some green air stuff. Mainly the SPC-1 controller which they claimed to be way more reliable then the PPM-3 from cap. They also seem to be still ordering GA products because I've seem them putting new stuff in their display case.

I actually purchased an SPC-1 (for a nice price) and although I havn't hooked it up to a co2 device yet..it seems much better quality then the PPM-3 and has a photosensor to turn off during dark cycle. I've went through setting it up and its pretty straight forward. You set you elevation if needed..set your set point and thats it. I've tested the activate co2 with a fan instead of my co2 device and it seems to work great.

Pic of GreenAir SPC-1 - Link


As for complete environment and climate controller I am actually interested in a CHHC-1 from sentinel. Looks to do it all, but I could of swore I read somewhere on here that a guy had to return one for a analog CAP unit because it was acting crazy around his electronic ballasts.

I'm using some purple 600w 240v ballasts so that'd be a huge concern.
Peace,

PC

Last edited by PonicalChillin; 04-23-2008 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 04-24-2008, 05:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PonicalChillin
GreenAir is out of business? Any anyone confirm this?

My local shop carries some green air stuff. Mainly the SPC-1 controller which they claimed to be way more reliable then the PPM-3 from cap. They also seem to be still ordering GA products because I've seem them putting new stuff in their display case.

I have heard it at 2 different stores and from various other people, Take your unit to the store tell them its broken and see what they say about sending it back. Someone tried this and they where also told they went out of bussiness. The stores need to get rid of there stock so they will keep putting it on the shelf till they run out.
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Old 04-24-2008, 06:03 AM   #7
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CO2

Quote:
Originally Posted by PonicalChillin
GreenAir is out of business? Any anyone confirm this?

I actually purchased an SPC-1 (for a nice price) and although I havn't hooked it up to a co2 device yet..it seems much better quality then the PPM-3 and has a photosensor to turn off during dark cycle. I've went through setting it up and its pretty straight forward. You set you elevation if needed..set your set point and thats it. I've tested the activate co2 with a fan instead of my co2 device and it seems to work great.

As for complete environment and climate controller I am actually interested in a CHHC-1 from sentinel. Looks to do it all, but I could of swore I read somewhere on here that a guy had to return one for a analog CAP unit because it was acting crazy around his electronic ballasts.

I'm using some purple 600w 240v ballasts so that'd be a huge concern.
Peace,

PC
I'm sure the SPC-1 is a good unit. I was interested in it before I found the Sentinel CPPM1. I prefer the modular disign of the Sentinel it will allow me to be outside the room measuring times between burns. I would not spend a lot of money on a device from a company going out of business.

I would go to Sentinel website and download the installation manual. They are pretty specific about how to hook up their devices and check with tech support to make sure before you buy the product.

my green air spc-1 running a burner works fine with 3 digital ballast in the same room ponical cover up the display cause the photo sensor doesn't shut off the ppm display at night and its pretty bright

Hey PP,

It sounds like I wouldn't have started this thread had I bought a SPC-1. How far away from the ballast is your spc-1? In my research I discovered the last update for the SPC-1 was 2001.

Peace, KB
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Old 04-24-2008, 09:53 AM   #8
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not to get off of topic, but I have a few questions which are somewhat related to this thread.

The SPC-1 doesn't mention anything about fuzzy logic I dont think. Is still going to give me problem if I go the route of bottled co2? Is the SPC-1 strictly for Generators?

If I can manage to return or come out from under the SPC-1.. I have a few questions concerning the new CHHC-1 from Sentinel. They say it controls everything that the CPPM-1 does (co2 setpoints n such), but also will turn on/off an AC to regulate temperature, and will also turn a dehumidifer on/off to regulate humidity. Sounds like a perfect sealed room to me. I think you may also be able to plug in a heater to keep nighttime temps from dropping too much.

BUT.. can the thing really do all of the above. Is it rated for that power? Both my AC and Dehumidifier pull quite a bit of amps. Said it has something about 30amp relays in it, but what does that mean? Will I have to run a seperate 10/3 or something to this unit?

Any more info is great. I love when these forums really get into some real quality info when it comes to choosing these expensive things.. I had having to buy stuff twice.

EDIT - when it comes to the CHHC-1. Does it work with digital (newer) window ACs and Dehumidifiers? Can you sent the AC to the coldest setting and the Dehumidifer to its dryest setting to ensure that they say on unless the CHHC-1 says otherwise?


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Last edited by PonicalChillin; 04-24-2008 at 09:56 AM..
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PonicalChillin
not to get off of topic, but I have a few questions which are somewhat related to this thread.

The SPC-1 doesn't mention anything about fuzzy logic I dont think. Is still going to give me problem if I go the route of bottled co2? Is the SPC-1 strictly for Generators?

If I can manage to return or come out from under the SPC-1.. I have a few questions concerning the new CHHC-1 from Sentinel. They say it controls everything that the CPPM-1 does (co2 setpoints n such), but also will turn on/off an AC to regulate temperature, and will also turn a dehumidifer on/off to regulate humidity. Sounds like a perfect sealed room to me. I think you may also be able to plug in a heater to keep nighttime temps from dropping too much.

BUT.. can the thing really do all of the above. Is it rated for that power? Both my AC and Dehumidifier pull quite a bit of amps. Said it has something about 30amp relays in it, but what does that mean? Will I have to run a seperate 10/3 or something to this unit?

Any more info is great. I love when these forums really get into some real quality info when it comes to choosing these expensive things.. I had having to buy stuff twice.

EDIT - when it comes to the CHHC-1. Does it work with digital (newer) window ACs and Dehumidifiers? Can you sent the AC to the coldest setting and the Dehumidifer to its dryest setting to ensure that they say on unless the CHHC-1 says otherwise?
pc
My room mate works at a local Hydro shop and brought home the whole array of Sentinel products, MDT4/CHC1/Master Digital Timer/C02 controller. He's told me they don't work well with the digital AC units and that you want to stick to a basic on/off unit. I hope this isn't the case as I have a digital window AC unit (as well as digital 600w ballasts) so I'll report back how it all works.
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:14 AM   #10
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im about to buy a cap3 unit im running just magnetic ballasts. Im currently running my Co2 Tank on a timer....(cheapass):P


Do the cap3 only run wierd with a digital ballast running? or does the digital ballast completly screw up the CAP3 ???

friend has a used unit for me but he was using i think 12 600watt digi's when he did use it... I think hes going for a bigger complete environmental control...

thanks!

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Old 04-26-2008, 09:44 AM   #11
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I'd give it a shot Sheeba. I dont think all PPM-3s are problematic...and if your buddy used it successfully then I'd imagine its a good one.

I think they may have had a bad batch of them..my local shop said they've had a lot come back - only to be sent to CAP for repair to find out that they are fine, but somehow customers where button mashing and managed to get into the internal settings and screw things up...so only go pushing buttons once you've read the instructions and know what your doing.

TheStar, please do report back concerning the use of the CHHC-1 with new digital ACs. Can you still even buy new non-digital ACs?
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Old 05-12-2008, 08:08 PM   #12
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just got mine @ greetrees 488 and c02 reg for 136 and all shipped great.
I would also like some updates on other users of the CHHC-1. I am going SEALED and can't wait !!!
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:25 PM   #13
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I got a Agrowtek controller with the CO2 option and I like it, except you have to get relays for extra lights, and stuff. It is only 15 amp, and don't know why they did that other than to make more $ off relays? Other than that, it is insane!

http://agrowtek.com/GrowControl_GC-C.html
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:16 AM   #14
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great info guys thanks....i'm looking at the CHHC-1 myself
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:08 PM   #15
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Out of business? When I called up green air a few days ago they seemed to be doing just fine. In fact I asked them about a part and they told me they had an order pending for those parts from their supplier arriving in several weeks.
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