my take from what i have grown.................

selfin a plant brings out recessive genes not other wise seen. I mean ancient shit

damn sure aint the elite clone!

as for hermies.........IMO it depends on the stock used and the breeder.

is it good for the gene pool? hell no, theres gonna be peeps all over spreadin selfed plants of elite clones that are bunk. its already outta control IMO.

even if ya somehow miraculously get a dup of the selfed plant, ya have 9 other plants that are not the elite. there still that strain but not the plant.

if ya took 10 selfed beans, and ten reg beans of the strain, i dont think the population would be close.

anyway just some thoughts to ponder.

CBF

[JLP]

I've followed the developments over the last couple years and I have grown selfed seeds.The only true way to re-produce an elite clone is to clone it,not self it.
You can stress the clone to check for hermaphroditism before you self it but that is really just a tool not a guarantee.
Here's a pic of a Reeferman's Feminized Blueberry Sativa.Notice anything wrong?
If it was a hermie I wouldn't think twice about it but that one,in appearance,looks like a solid male.No hairs ever appeared on it.If it was made from a selfed female then what is it?A single sex hermie?








The other 2 I have going look fine,all hairs and no sacks.
I'm willing to try just about anything but I'm not really impressed by the results of the few grows I've done.


JLP

[Capt. Crip]

Yes it could be a male hermie.Have you tried to stress it to see if it will produce any female flowers?
I agree and disagree with the above statements.1,if you have a plant in clone-only form with very special traits that you would like to share you must self to get seeds and/or begin a stabilization process.My SF is a perfect example.I can cross it with a true-breeder such as Blueberry but I will still have to deal with variation because the SF itself is not stable.In order to get more stable results with my SF crosses I have to stabilize the desired traits through selfing,there is no other way.
Another point is that choosing male plants is not easy.By selfing a selected female you do away with biggest part of the unknown(the pollen donor).It is much faster to stabilize a specific trait if both the female and the male (female pollen donor)have the desired trait.
Just a thought....................... .........CC

I did the RM fem BB sativa, three plants all diff phenos, not even close. thought I had the clone plant or close, looked just like it, and purped up but was very weak potentcy wise. didnt see any hermies or a male.

capt, so you like a self for speed is what your sayin? or you just dont want any other genes in your line. cause you could outcross the clone with a placebo strain, and work back. selfin isnt the only way to stabilize traits, as im sure ya know. when your selfin your SF, you dont see alot of variation in that selfed pop.

some say a self is like a cube, faster stabilization of a line. i dont see that, i see lots of variation in the selfed pops ive grown. I may be missin your point. just seems selfin your plant creates more work to get rid of the recessives that appear.

CBF

Originally Posted by JLP

I've followed the developments over the last couple years and I have grown selfed seeds.The only true way to re-produce an elite clone is to clone it,not self it.
You can stress the clone to check for hermaphroditism before you self it but that is really just a tool not a guarantee.
Here's a pic of a Reeferman's Feminized Blueberry Sativa.Notice anything wrong?
If it was a hermie I wouldn't think twice about it but that one,in appearance,looks like a solid male.No hairs ever appeared on it.If it was made from a selfed female then what is it?A single sex hermie?
JLP

Ive had males in two selfed seed grows, did a sibcross with one that im growin now, SBC. mainly just to see what the plants do. i think selfin stresses the plant, its extinction genes kick in and the selfed plant will throw out a male, just a theroy though. thinkin if ya grew out a large enough batch you would experience a male in the pop.

CBF

is there such a thing as a single sex hernie?

[Capt. Crip]

If you are growing big enough populations and making proper selections you can weed out unwanted traits in as little as 3 generations.You are speaking of Cubing when you spoke of outcrossing and working your way back following the desired traits,is this correct?

I do see tons of variation in selfing an F1,but each successive cross gets better/more stable.You do have to grow out a bunch to "find" what you are looking for (especially F2's)but for me I would rather self my SF then to outcross and work back although similar results could be had with both techniques.
You make a good point.That's the way they stabilized the Cinderella99,yes?Cubing?

[Capt. Crip]

There is something to be said about not having to deal with male plants.Special males are hard to discover and even harder to find a specific trait that can barely show itself without female flowers.This is another avenue we have to look down with this question.
It is nice to be able to look for something special in an all-female population.
It does seem easier in theory. :smile:
Male plants are a bitch But you gotta love em'
Well anywayzz Take care......................CC

[King]

Will let you know in a few weeks. Bubba and OG getting ready to go. Alittle variation in the 2 OG, all 4 Bubba's look pretty identical to me. I don't really see how recessives are going to show more like you say CBF. I strongly believe in feminised seed until I'm convinced otherwise, even with an occasional male here and there. Males seem a waste of time to me. Males don't show female flowering traits.

May I ask what traits you select for in your males you breed with? Do you smoke the sacs? Do you just take the fastest growing male?

Gonna do some selfing here and a big grow of the selfed seeds. Should be able to pop 45 selfed beans in my NFT and just let them go, right next to a clone from the original mother of course.

[Capt. Crip]

The best methods for choosing males is not smoking them IMO(who can bare it with mounds of buds laying around )I like to use the odor as my judge.A stem rub can tell you a bunch.The most odorous male will usually be the most potent.You can also feel for stickyness in the plants to determine which is the most resinous,but smoking males is torture :wink:
Take care......................CC

king I look for the most vigorous males, the most resinous, and what i like to see in growth. use the smell stem rub on all plants as capt had said. have been usin single males for my tiny projects but believe that selectin as many males and mixin there pollen across all the females. further down the road try and use single mutiple males across one lady to pick the best performin males. thats some time down the way.

the recessives, plants so far from the selfed plant, is what im seein. just for a example, the BB sativa, three phenos, one close to the original plant. shorter compact lots of bush to it. one with sativa bud. light airy, had the BB leaf shape and bushy, still tall like a sativa. the other a thai lookin plant, asian sativa for sure. big phat airy bud, spindly plant. that one right out of the stone age.

i cant speak on all femmed seed of course, but Ive tried three strains and really none that i would say im real happy with. selfin is more in line with what capt is doin, a breedin tool, i dont think the resultin selfed plants are for commercial seed.

capt, yes outcross, select the plants your lookin for and back to the mom or dad. however you run it. yes more time consummin. yeah C99 was worked in this manner. exact way the grimm bros performed it i dont know. have read there process on it a few times.

thanks for your comments and ideas. look for more input as we ponder selfed plants

CBF