BigTokes ~ "How-To" Of The Bio-Buckets 101 - Page 113 - Indoor Grows - Hydro - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

thunderbunny · 11-11-2013, 04:47 PM

Excuse my french, but this is beyond overkill!

The fastest way to grow a colony of beneficial bacteria is to throw a thimble full (or more) of compost starter into the water...this bull about letting the buckets sit in the open air so that the beneficials can fall from the air and inoculate the lava rock is beyond unbelievable....there are millions of bacteria, molds, mold spores, viruses, etc floating around in your rooms air....the beneficials do not separate themselves from the bad bugs just because you wish that they would!

It is the same as growing mushrooms on straw or compost. Pre colonized mushroom spawn (in the form of grain or compost) is added to the growing medium in very large quantities; this is so the mushroom mycelium can outgrow all of the competing microorganisms that also want to feast off of the bulk growing medium, be it pasteurized straw or compost. Again, unless you actually add the compost starter to the water, you will be growing a multitude of bad crap along with the desired bacteria.

Running the setup for two weeks before planting? why? if the beneficials are in there, they are growing and slowly colonizing the system whether there are plants in the netpots or not. Why waste two freaking weeks running a hydro system with nothing growing? The bacteria will multiply at the same time that your plants are growing, and eventually reach your desired numbers. Why waste two weeks per crop? TEN weeks per year equals another finished crop!

Do not mean to burst bubbles, or anything like that, but i have not seen a single picture of a successfully FINISHED crop from these bio-buckets....why go thru the time and effort if they do not work? If someone can show me the massive yields off of bio grown plants, then I will shut up....however, I find it suspect that after 74 pages of bio-bucket madness, there are no pics of finished, ready to harvest plants?

Help me to understand bio-bucket overkill! I currently only grow outdoors (no grow light like the sun) Back in the 80's and 90's (using Seed Bank Skunk 1 x NL) we filled 12 5-gallon buckets with lava rocks, and flooded them with a pump a couple of times per lighting cycle (2 kw halides), and easily realized a quarter pound per clone per 9 week cycle, as long as nutrients, and ph, are mixed and adjusted properly! Thats .7 grams per watt using nothing more than a cheap pond pump and a $12 digital timer. Oxygen is sucked into the grow medium as the water drains...simplicity! Tell me why I was not also growing colonies of beneficial bacteria? the pots were flooded, the lava rock was wetted down with nutrient mix, and, after draining the bucket, the rock was exposed to the open air...are you telling me that I did not have the exact same setup without all of the drama?

No "waterfalls" needed! The hydro water was injected with massive amounts of dissolved oxygen because we added a second line to the output of the pump that would spray a stream of water back into the reservoir nutrient solution...same way that bait shops add oxygen to their minnow tanks.

Waiting to be enlightened!

TheCleanGame · 11-11-2013, 05:29 PM

I followed mycology about 10 years ago and I concur.

Not saying that a beneficial bio-field won't form from the air anyway... I don't 'wash' or 'scrub' my res when I change it for a crop cycle. Rinse and re-fill is all that's needed... I actually want that bio-film that forms.

Personally? I'm not a big fan of 'complicated' systems with multiple leak points. When I can't run DWC (my fave) I run drip through clay pebbles. Stupid simple and cheap with the same results. lol

Keep it Clean!

thelaughingman · 11-11-2013, 08:46 PM

Yo Thunderbunny...
The point to inoculate the lavarocks.. if that's what your going for, but you didn't mention that is what you done with your lava rock grow..... you used air, water and food, the basic elements to keep a plant alive.. indeed there are autotrophic organisms..
If one really desired enlightenment, they would not be ranting but, looking for an answer.. there are plenty of successful grows on the interwebs or folks at the local shops..
I have always pondered on the micro life....

overbudjet · 11-12-2013, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderbunny

Excuse my french, but this is beyond overkill!
Do not mean to burst bubbles, or anything like that, but i have not seen a single picture of a successfully FINISHED crop from these bio-buckets....why go thru the time and effort if they do not work? If someone can show me the massive yields off of bio grown plants, then I will shut up....however, I find it suspect that after 74 pages of bio-bucket madness, there are no pics of finished, ready to harvest plants?

Waiting to be enlightened!

All from my bio-uc system.

11-13-2013, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petemoss

Once water temps go over 71F, your plants will suffer and you'll get lower yields, more stretch and airy buds. Bio-buckets may be able to tolerate a couple more degrees than other DWC methods due to faster circulation but not higher than 75 IMO. If you want to try bio-buckets in warm weather, you really need a chiller for best results.

View Image

Hey moss, thanks for the info. I think I agree on the ~75* point. I'm seeing perfectly normal health at friends house at up to 74* - bear in mind that is veg - but still... I don't know if, like you say, in flower higher than (or even up to 75* instead of say 70-71*) 75* would cause lower quality flower characteristics.
KryptKeepa did a pretty nice Biobucket run and had temps around that before he got a chiller, I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by opt1c

just get an undercurrent.... you loose too much vertical canopy height raising the buckets high enough to get the waterfall effect

Hi, thanks for chiming. As far as "get", I'd never buy one. They aren't too hard to make. I agree about the height, for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjenkins

Naaaa --- just put 'em outside and let nature do it....

I think that'd be preferred for anyone, right? (especially the plants) Nature..? Same may disagree

Quote:

Originally Posted by overbudjet

The best thing to do imho will be to merge those 2 system together UC and bio bucket .This is what i have done to do it!
Pic#1 UC system 4 15 Gal. site +15 Gal. rez.
Pic#2 Pumps in rez pushing water to water fall.
Pic#3 Water line coming from pump going up to form waterfall 4 feet in the 4 inch abs tube.
Pic#4 Rock under waterfall to allow beneficial to grow.

View Image View Image View Image View Image

OB, hey dude. Yea, you're design is fantastic looking. Love it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderbunny

Excuse my french, but this is beyond overkill!

Do not mean to burst bubbles, or anything like that, but i have not seen a single picture of a successfully FINISHED crop from these bio-buckets....

...Help me to understand bio-bucket overkill!...are you telling me that I did not have the exact same setup without all of the drama?...

...No "waterfalls" needed!
Waiting to be enlightened!

I don't know that I see any french here. *edited/shortened your post, obv.*

No bubbles a-burstin', lol, but good insight. To be honest as I write I have to admit I first thought "2 weeks?? Really" as well. But now you've seen at least one successful finish from a Bio B. I know I've seen another somewhere on here.
It's not the most popular, and by that I mean "known about", method I would think - despite this huge thread..compared to ANY other of the dozens of ways to 'garden'.

Doesn't sound like you did have the same setup to me, no. By drama you "two week...errr...inoculation time" (haha)?

Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge or experience to 'enlighten' ya dude.
Seems like you mentioned a waterfall of sorts with the tee-off of the water pump though. Different means to the same end there, as far as aeration - except maybe that you're example would use some pump power/gph to make that waterall. The gravity style waterfall wouldn't.

Different approaches bro.

Noob point of view here maybe, grain of Himalayan salt etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by overbudjet

View Image View Image View Image All from my bio-uc system.

Damn, bundles. OB killed that one.

thunderbunny · 11-13-2013, 04:19 PM

Thelaughingman

actually we did "inoculate" our plants/buckets in a roundabout sort of way..because we foliar fed with compost tea...mushroom compost bubbled in a 5 gallon bucket with some added blood meal and Maxicrop...just the overspray from the foliar feed would inoculate the buckets with the desirable microorganisms...just like throwing a pinch of compost starter into the system from day one would also start the beneficials off before the bad bugs had a chance to proliferate.

Even without the compost tea overspray, the lava rocks would be "inoculated" with hundreds of mold spores, viruses, and bacteria from the air itself, however, there is no way to steer the desirable bugs into your buckets while somehow excluding the undesirables....look in front of your nose: that one cubic foot of air holds, at a minimum, one million spores, bacteria, and viruses...Even an operating room (say a class 100 environment) means that there are at least 100 microorganisms floating per square foot of air after being filtered thru a very hi efficiency HEPA filter! both desirable and non desirable. People still end up with infections after surgery everyday!

My point is that the buckets will start growing microorganisms from day one when the water and fertz first hit the lava rocks...there should be no waste of 2 weeks! time per crop..that is ridiculous + still waiting to see some actual pics from these amazing bio buckets...I mean, more power to anyone who wants to build this system, but any noobies that come along and follow the instructions to the letter are wasting time, energy, effort, and most of all CASH $, a lot of it!

And I have not even yet commented on the scenario where a noobie builds one of these systems, and hooks it to the main water supply using a float valve....a setup like this means a never ending leak if a leak does spring up somewhere in the hundreds of places that a leak could open up in this system....if the noobie lives in an apartment, or a second or third floor condo, this means that a never ending leak will flood the neighbors apt/condo from above....first maintenance will show up and demand entry, and next law enforcement will be knocking at the door.....then there is the multi thousand $ repair bill that will be presented to the grower for the water damage that he/she causes!

I could go on and on, but I think that you get the point.....Peace

overbudjet · 11-13-2013, 04:55 PM

For pics check the post over 333 last one!

overbudjet · 11-13-2013, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderbunny

Thelaughingman

still waiting to see some actual pics from these amazing bio buckets........Peace

For your eyes only Thunderbunny .

Ole MacDonald · 12-13-2013, 01:57 PM

So I'm building a system similar to Big Toke's bio buckets. I wanted to make a change to it though, and was looking for some feedback.

I don't want to use lava rocks in the net pots, because I don't want to have to clean out the roots, or throw away lava rocks. My idea was to place a basket of lava rocks half submersed in the reservoir underneath the waterfall, and over an 8" air stone. I was also thinking of adding Aquashield periodically, as well as the occasional tea. Any thoughts?

Much respect and gratitude to Big Toke for taking the time to create such a thorough DIY tutorial!!!

Ole MacDonald · 12-13-2013, 02:20 PM

Also want to mention that I will be starting a thread that will show the construction of this system, running of the system, and the end result. My big question right now is how long I can get away with not having to change the res. It would be great to be able to go a month or two. BT said he never had to change, but I also don't plan on having roots growing around lava rocks, which could change the outcome of colonization. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

I like Aquashield, as opposed to compost tea or products like Great White, because most beneficials are non-beneficial in a hydrosystem, especially fungi. I don't need to break down sugars, or complex organic molecules. I really only want to run bennies to help protect against bad bacteria blooms.

So, whatever happened to Big Toke?

11-11-2013, 04:47 PM	#1121
thunderbunny Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: near the airport Posts: 35	bio-bullcrap or bio-paradise? Excuse my french, but this is beyond overkill! The fastest way to grow a colony of beneficial bacteria is to throw a thimble full (or more) of compost starter into the water...this bull about letting the buckets sit in the open air so that the beneficials can fall from the air and inoculate the lava rock is beyond unbelievable....there are millions of bacteria, molds, mold spores, viruses, etc floating around in your rooms air....the beneficials do not separate themselves from the bad bugs just because you wish that they would! It is the same as growing mushrooms on straw or compost. Pre colonized mushroom spawn (in the form of grain or compost) is added to the growing medium in very large quantities; this is so the mushroom mycelium can outgrow all of the competing microorganisms that also want to feast off of the bulk growing medium, be it pasteurized straw or compost. Again, unless you actually add the compost starter to the water, you will be growing a multitude of bad crap along with the desired bacteria. Running the setup for two weeks before planting? why? if the beneficials are in there, they are growing and slowly colonizing the system whether there are plants in the netpots or not. Why waste two freaking weeks running a hydro system with nothing growing? The bacteria will multiply at the same time that your plants are growing, and eventually reach your desired numbers. Why waste two weeks per crop? TEN weeks per year equals another finished crop! Do not mean to burst bubbles, or anything like that, but i have not seen a single picture of a successfully FINISHED crop from these bio-buckets....why go thru the time and effort if they do not work? If someone can show me the massive yields off of bio grown plants, then I will shut up....however, I find it suspect that after 74 pages of bio-bucket madness, there are no pics of finished, ready to harvest plants? Help me to understand bio-bucket overkill! I currently only grow outdoors (no grow light like the sun) Back in the 80's and 90's (using Seed Bank Skunk 1 x NL) we filled 12 5-gallon buckets with lava rocks, and flooded them with a pump a couple of times per lighting cycle (2 kw halides), and easily realized a quarter pound per clone per 9 week cycle, as long as nutrients, and ph, are mixed and adjusted properly! Thats .7 grams per watt using nothing more than a cheap pond pump and a $12 digital timer. Oxygen is sucked into the grow medium as the water drains...simplicity! Tell me why I was not also growing colonies of beneficial bacteria? the pots were flooded, the lava rock was wetted down with nutrient mix, and, after draining the bucket, the rock was exposed to the open air...are you telling me that I did not have the exact same setup without all of the drama? No "waterfalls" needed! The hydro water was injected with massive amounts of dissolved oxygen because we added a second line to the output of the pump that would spray a stream of water back into the reservoir nutrient solution...same way that bait shops add oxygen to their minnow tanks. Waiting to be enlightened! __________________ Coming soon from my good buddy, and 30-year outdoor, guerilla-style grower: *Vinnie Kaz* GUERILLA GROWING TRADE SECRETS: Hints Kinks and Tips for the Clandestine Grower Insider Secrets and Techniques from the professionals out there doing the growing "Thunderbunny was lucky enough to receive a pre-publication copy of "Guerilla Growing Trade Secrets" for proofreading purposes. I applied some of the techniques as described in the book, specifically the chapter on Swamp Growing, and I tripled the yields of my multiple, guerilla gardens the very next year! CHECK OUT a really cool flash viewer preview of each and every one of the 34 chapters and 370 pages at: www.tradesecretspublishing.com
	Quote

11-11-2013, 08:46 PM	#1123
thelaughingman Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Central California Posts: 373	Yo Thunderbunny... The point to inoculate the lavarocks.. if that's what your going for, but you didn't mention that is what you done with your lava rock grow..... you used air, water and food, the basic elements to keep a plant alive.. indeed there are autotrophic organisms.. If one really desired enlightenment, they would not be ranting but, looking for an answer.. there are plenty of successful grows on the interwebs or folks at the local shops.. I have always pondered on the micro life.... __________________
	Quote

11-13-2013, 04:19 PM	#1126
thunderbunny Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: near the airport Posts: 35	Thelaughingman actually we did "inoculate" our plants/buckets in a roundabout sort of way..because we foliar fed with compost tea...mushroom compost bubbled in a 5 gallon bucket with some added blood meal and Maxicrop...just the overspray from the foliar feed would inoculate the buckets with the desirable microorganisms...just like throwing a pinch of compost starter into the system from day one would also start the beneficials off before the bad bugs had a chance to proliferate. Even without the compost tea overspray, the lava rocks would be "inoculated" with hundreds of mold spores, viruses, and bacteria from the air itself, however, there is no way to steer the desirable bugs into your buckets while somehow excluding the undesirables....look in front of your nose: that one cubic foot of air holds, at a minimum, one million spores, bacteria, and viruses...Even an operating room (say a class 100 environment) means that there are at least 100 microorganisms floating per square foot of air after being filtered thru a very hi efficiency HEPA filter! both desirable and non desirable. People still end up with infections after surgery everyday! My point is that the buckets will start growing microorganisms from day one when the water and fertz first hit the lava rocks...there should be no waste of 2 weeks! time per crop..that is ridiculous + still waiting to see some actual pics from these amazing bio buckets...I mean, more power to anyone who wants to build this system, but any noobies that come along and follow the instructions to the letter are wasting time, energy, effort, and most of all CASH $, a lot of it! And I have not even yet commented on the scenario where a noobie builds one of these systems, and hooks it to the main water supply using a float valve....a setup like this means a never ending leak if a leak does spring up somewhere in the hundreds of places that a leak could open up in this system....if the noobie lives in an apartment, or a second or third floor condo, this means that a never ending leak will flood the neighbors apt/condo from above....first maintenance will show up and demand entry, and next law enforcement will be knocking at the door.....then there is the multi thousand $ repair bill that will be presented to the grower for the water damage that he/she causes! I could go on and on, but I think that you get the point.....Peace __________________ Coming soon from my good buddy, and 30-year outdoor, guerilla-style grower: *Vinnie Kaz* GUERILLA GROWING TRADE SECRETS: Hints Kinks and Tips for the Clandestine Grower Insider Secrets and Techniques from the professionals out there doing the growing "Thunderbunny was lucky enough to receive a pre-publication copy of "Guerilla Growing Trade Secrets" for proofreading purposes. I applied some of the techniques as described in the book, specifically the chapter on Swamp Growing, and I tripled the yields of my multiple, guerilla gardens the very next year! CHECK OUT a really cool flash viewer preview of each and every one of the 34 chapters and 370 pages at: www.tradesecretspublishing.com
	Quote 0 members found this post helpful.

11-13-2013, 04:55 PM	#1127
overbudjet Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Quebec/Canada Posts: 946	For pics check the post over 333 last one! __________________ Sorry for my writing skill english is not my first language. peace to all
	Quote

11-11-2013, 05:29 PM	#1122
TheCleanGame Banned Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: South Park Colorado Posts: 979	I followed mycology about 10 years ago and I concur. Not saying that a beneficial bio-field won't form from the air anyway... I don't 'wash' or 'scrub' my res when I change it for a crop cycle. Rinse and re-fill is all that's needed... I actually want that bio-film that forms. Personally? I'm not a big fan of 'complicated' systems with multiple leak points. When I can't run DWC (my fave) I run drip through clay pebbles. Stupid simple and cheap with the same results. lol Keep it Clean!
	Quote

12-13-2013, 01:57 PM	#1129
Ole MacDonald Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: The Mountains Posts: 94	So I'm building a system similar to Big Toke's bio buckets. I wanted to make a change to it though, and was looking for some feedback. I don't want to use lava rocks in the net pots, because I don't want to have to clean out the roots, or throw away lava rocks. My idea was to place a basket of lava rocks half submersed in the reservoir underneath the waterfall, and over an 8" air stone. I was also thinking of adding Aquashield periodically, as well as the occasional tea. Any thoughts? Much respect and gratitude to Big Toke for taking the time to create such a thorough DIY tutorial!!!
	Quote

12-13-2013, 02:20 PM	#1130
Ole MacDonald Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: The Mountains Posts: 94	Also want to mention that I will be starting a thread that will show the construction of this system, running of the system, and the end result. My big question right now is how long I can get away with not having to change the res. It would be great to be able to go a month or two. BT said he never had to change, but I also don't plan on having roots growing around lava rocks, which could change the outcome of colonization. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. I like Aquashield, as opposed to compost tea or products like Great White, because most beneficials are non-beneficial in a hydrosystem, especially fungi. I don't need to break down sugars, or complex organic molecules. I really only want to run bennies to help protect against bad bacteria blooms. So, whatever happened to Big Toke?
	Quote