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Variations in s1's (selfed)?

VapingBuddha

VapingBuddha

Member
Just curious. People seem to say they get some variation in the s1's but it seems like if the parents are genetically identical they should be more like clones. How much variation are people seeing? I'm wondering if the various silver preparations that are used to change sex are causing other mutations?
 
G

Gert Lush

Active member
Veteran
Good question, I remember asking that myself, not too long ago.

Basically mate, the (diploid) genetics in the plant will recombine, even if it's an S1. So - far as I can tell anyway - you should see almost as much variation as in F2s.

The only time there won't be variation is if the P1 is homozygous already, which is pretty rare. IOW, it will still recombine but since the two "halves" are the same you won't see a diffs. This however is rare. Most normal healthy plants will have recessive traits which may show up in S1.

PS. If you ask a mod to move this to the "Breeding" section you'll probably get far more knowladgeable answers than I can give you.
 
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C

Charles Xavier

Member
Greetings

VapingBuddha: Good question.

Gert Lush: Great answer.

Solely for the sake of (technical) clarification: Most Cannabis cells are diploid; meaning the genetic material of the plant is organised via chromosomes in homologous pairs (possessing two copies of each autosomal genetic locus). A diploid cell inherits one chromosome from each parental set.

The donated group of chromosomes from each parent is termed haploid. In reproduction, the various haploid sequences recombine to produce the diploid. This recombination is expressed in genotype and phenotype.

"...[T]he various silver preparations..." used do not change the "sex" of the plant, it alters 'sexual' expression. In other words, the genotype of the P1 is unaffected.

Sincerely,
Charles.
 
kathmandu

kathmandu

Active member
so if the genetics are not affected using silver solutions why do people say that positive traits are degraded in the offspring of s1, what accounts for this?
 
m@rg

m@rg

go on .. pull my finger
ICMag Donor
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kathmandu said:
so if the genetics are not affected using silver solutions why do people say that positive traits are degraded in the offspring of s1, what accounts for this?
Click to expand...

for example ,if i get the "uk cheese" clone ,renowned for its smell and taste
and "self" her ,then use the pollen on another uk cheese, the chances of the seeds keeping the smell and taste xactly are very slim ,because the plants dna has been shuffled

with any breeding project, its like a pack of cards ....keep shuffling them
 
G

Guest

Im not expert like Sam, who I have great respect for. But it seems to be me by back crossing varietys you can select for whatever traits you want. But the further you back cross the less chromozones/genes there are to realign themselves and create variation. Basically the gene pool is shrinking and the chances for variation decrease the further you back cross. Some traits may be lost ultimately, but with selection the traits the breeder considered desirable can be maintained.

Ofcourse I could be wrong, but it seems to make sense to me.
 
Sam_Skunkman

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
Originally Posted by kathmandu
so if the genetics are not affected using silver solutions why do people say that positive traits are degraded in the offspring of s1, what accounts for this?

ShaolinBushido,
S1 is a selfed plant, not backcrossed.

-SamS
 
DocLeaf

DocLeaf

procreationist
ICMag Donor
Veteran
For example:

if a breeder used the following combination to make Haze x Afghan feminized :

haze x (afghan s1 and Haze s1)

the resulting lineage would all be female, yet still inherit variation from both male/herm parents used.

peace
dLeaf :joint:
 
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ograskal

ograskal

Active member
Veteran
ShaolinBushido said:
Ofcourse I could be wrong, but it seems to make sense to me.
Click to expand...

Of course your Wrong...This thread is about Selfing (S1's), Not Back Crossing...
:bashhead: LOL......Learn to read Mate.....~ogr
 
Berry_Coughin'

Berry_Coughin'

Active member
Veteran
VapingBuddha, I am not an authority on the subject by any means, and am humbled to be in the company of Sam, Charles, and ogr~

I can only attest from personal experience....

I selfed a Double Sour Diesel (first outcross) back in '05 ...... made many beans....

The progeny does show traits from the mother, but is hardly an exact replica....

What I can say about the progeny, they are very similar, some more than others, but for the most part they look like brothers and sisters no mistake about it....

EDIT: the word 'brothers' needs to be omitted, as no true males have been found amongst these seeds..... I've had a couple throw bananas, but no true males have been found to date......

13110Picture_466.jpg
 
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G

Guest

the bonus to s-1 is that you know exactly what kinda prime plant the pollen is coming from where a male your left to guest threw vigor and smelling stems and smoking males to see what kinda potency it has...........a gamble.....of sorts

but even when you use 2 genetics freaks ..omega females dna .frost monsters

it still comes to reality that ........2 ugly people can **** and there daughter can be the prom queen and Barbie and ken can **** and have the seed of chuckys red headed step child........its just luck, but s-1z can be awesome ...but with unstable ...clones ..it can go bad ,hence some of the horrible bubba s-1z


no matter what youR still playing the lotto when playing with seeds........

DO YOU FEEL LUCKY PUNK ,huH DO YOU?...
 
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G

Guest

ograskal said:
Of course your Wrong...This thread is about Selfing (S1's), Not Back Crossing...
:bashhead: LOL......Learn to read Mate.....~ogr
Click to expand...

Wow, learn some grammar why dont you troll? If you're going to continue to troll me because I feel your elite spamming is unjustified I will take action accordingly. :rasta:
 
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Sam_Skunkman

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
DocLeaf said:
For example:

if a breeder used the following combination to make Haze x Afghan feminized :

haze x (afghan s1 and Haze s1)

the resulting lineage would all be female, yet still inherit variation from both male/herm parents used.

peace
dLeaf :joint:
Click to expand...

Yes but it woud be an F1 of Haze X two S1's . Unless you are not saying everything correctly.

-SamS
 
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ograskal

ograskal

Active member
Veteran
ShaolinBushido said:
Wow, learn some grammar why dont you troll? If you're going to continue to troll me because I feel your elite spamming is unjustified I will take action accordingly. :rasta:
Click to expand...

What do you mean continue to Troll You.....LOL....This is only the 2nd thread
I've seen you in and You've made a fool of yourself on Both.. :bashhead: If you have anything further to say to me then take it up in PM's so you dont ruin another thread....~ogr
 
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