Grinchy's 600 watt AK48/Bubblicious

This is the journal for Grinchy's second grow. I killed most of my first 50 and the 11 that are left are in severe shock and will probably die. This was because I did not have a TDS meter and my light was too close soo I double fried my plants.

I have 10 of each bubblicious and AK48, along with Gypsy's freebie seeds. I don't speak with anyone about growing so couldn't give them away. The seeds were started in various ways. Some were put directely in PH adjusted pre soaked rockwool cubes, others were put in Supernatural rockwool soak(RWS) pre soaked rockwool cubes. These were planted 4 days ago. The rest same day I dropped some in PHed water in shot glasses and planted those after 48 hours in both PHed and RWS prepared RW cubes. The purpose of this was to test to see if any particular way resulted in faster germination. I will post my results after they are all sprouted.

One problem

One problem

One of the taproots is brown?!? I don't know why I think it might have dried out or I touched it. Any ideas?


Also, I am wondering how large these seedlings should be before I transplant them to the ebb and flow tabele they are going in. They will be in six inch pots about seven inches of medium. The flood will go six inches up the pots. The system is already running with my other shocked plants in it, here are the conditions:

-HydroHut 4 ft by 4ft
-600 watt Lumatek Digital with Sunmaster MH for veg and Hortlux HPS for flower (eventually I am gonna have two of these in the hut)
-Stanley blower to cool light/s
-70 gallon reservoir
-my PH is a little under 6 (i only have a liquid test)
-PPMs at .5 is around 220-250 it fluctuates some between me adding water
-My tap water is 20-30 PPMs
-Tray floods every 3 and a half hours during light cycle for a total of 5 floods
-Flood cycle is 4 min, Drain is 10 min
-Temp is always a little under 80
-Humidity 50-60
-Passive filtered intake
-Stanley blower exhaust through home made carbon filter

Any reccomendations on how to improve conditions are greatly appreciated!

Also please ask any questions and I will do what I can to help!

Hydro Hut


Tray and Res


Air Intake and Ballast


Intake Inside


Still waiting for carbon off ebay so the filter is not filled or hooked up a hose from the top exhaust will connect it


Exhaust for lights


Light and exhaust blower


Res air pump


Pump Inlet/Outlet and Overflow

I watered the 4 day old cubes to day with 20ml oh PHed water and the 2 and 1 day old cubes with a few ml each. I gave each a little squeeze just to make sure there is no extra water. I am really concerned about that root that died! I hope it is just air pruning and not an indication of more of a problem. The rest look quite well.

EX-SQUEEZE ME or "please don't squeeze the charmin"

EX-SQUEEZE ME or "please don't squeeze the charmin"

Grinchy said:

I watered the 4 day old cubes to day with 20ml oh PHed water and the 2 and 1 day old cubes with a few ml each. I gave each a little squeeze just to make sure there is no extra water. I am really concerned about that root that died! I hope it is just air pruning and not an indication of more of a problem. The rest look quite well.

Click to expand...

First of all Grinchy.
Thats a really nice cabinet setup you've got. Props dude.

That root may have been from being kept so wet...but anyway...
A few tips regarding rockwool minicubes, and using them in an ebb&flow system...

Don't ever sqeeze the rockwool! arrrgh!
Squeezing the cubes will end up breaking the verticle tube-like structure of the rw and cause it to not breathe properly. By that I mean to say that the way rw cubes work is by sucking up liquid by way of capillary action, and in turn, drawing in fresh air as the liquid drains out of the cube.

The cubes are made up of thousands of fibers laid together to form a tube-like structure. If the fibers of this structure become broken, which happens each and every time a person squeezes the cube no matter how gently some will end up being broken, then the cube will not function as well as we'd like. Several problems can happen, including the rw staying way too wet for too long and not drawing in air like they were designed to do.

There is a much better way to accomplish what you're trying to do squeezing the hand watered minicubes. Just for a learning experience pick up two minicubes, gently, and dip them in a bowl of water 'soaking wet', now set one of the cubes down in a tray (nursery flat), now take the second minicube and while looking at the wet cubes top..set it down right on top of that first cube.

Notice how excessive water gets pulled downward out of the top cube, pulling in air at the same time? repeat the dipping if you'd like to see the rw 'performing the magic' again...Yea "bingo" the top cube is now holding just about a perfect ratio of water and air ! You can now set it aside and repeat this action for your remaining batch of planted minicubes you wan't to hand water.

This method works great and has served me well for many years when I needed to hand water the new babies. It's great for new seedling starts as well as a tray full of cuttings. It helps the seedlings really 'pop' well with copious amounts of roots being formed because they're not sitting in a sopping wet cube. And it's just plain simple as hell since you wont have to be measureing any more liquid with teaspoons oreye droppers etc or need to squeeze another cube ever again once you get the hang of doing it. Ya just fill up a bowl with enough ph'd water, have a spare minicube to "set" the moisture with and begin dipping cubes, touching each cube down for a few seconds and then returning it to the tray...repeat with the next cube until you're done with the tray full.

What else about rw...
F'king algae yukkk. You dont want algae growing on top of your cubes. It acts just like the broken squeezed and smashed cube problem... clogs up the structure and makes the rw not breathe anywhere near as well as we'd like.
So please don't have your minicubes sticking out the top of your growrocks like I see in the pictures. Bury them a little deeper in that hydroton, so theres about an inch of stones above the top surface of the cubes.

Also, don't flood so damn high. You don't want the floods so high that the tops of the rocks are swimming in the solution during floods. They don't need to get soaked that high at all. Plus, flooding that high can cause the rocks to try to float which can cause damage to the root system that will be forming in the rockage. not to mention the damned algae that forms on soaking wet rocks after time.

Flood height...
Newly rooted minicubes...flood to a level about halfway up the side of the minicubes down in the planters for the first week...then lower the flood height to a point of just touching the bottoms give or take about a 1/4 inch. Then leave the flood height where its at thruout the rest of the grow.

When to transplant into the rockage...
When you're seeing a bunch of roots at the bottom of the cube...go for it.
Don't forget to slide that plastic wrapper off the minicubes btw.

When to begin feeding the seedlings...
"watch the cotyledons but keep an eye on the true leaf color too"...
The cotyledons are the first set of leaves you see as the sprout breaks out of its shell. Some people call them "seedbusters", because they help the sprout break out of it's shell. But they serve another purpose as the sprouts first food source. Since we're talking hydro here...understand that there is no other source of food available so you can't wait for the cotys to shrivel up before feeding like a soil grower would. Instead you'll need to watch for the cotys just begining to shrivel after the sprout has put on some foliage. Most of the time in plain ph'd water, the sprout will put on about five or six sets of leaves before it shows any signs of being hungry, and some times "the hunger" will show itself way before the cotys show. Just keep an eye on that first set of true leaves along with the cotys and you'll see a lightening of the green color and then you can begin feeding very mild weak nutes. About 200 ppm should be fine.

So yea... dont slam them little babies with nutes immediatly like you did with the first batch that got fried to death. Remember that the tiny little sprouts with only a few sets of leaves can handle the shock of feeding. Wait for five or six sets of leaves before even thinking of throwing nutes at em and you should do quite well.

Oh yea...One more thing about rockwool to help folks understand about using it in ebb&flow systems and how...
BIG ROCKWOOL CUBES SUCK in e&f !

The original design of rockwool is for drip feed placement on top of a slab. The minicubes once rooted in, get stuck into larger cubes (usually the 4"ones) and then the big cubes are placed onto large rw slabs laying in a slab tray which is supported slightly tilted. The slabs fiber structure runs horizontal and the cuibes structure runs vertically. The cubes are drip fed from the top and the slab pulls the excess wetness down and out of the cube drawing in air at the same time... the slight tilt of the tray, in turn, helps the excess wetness drain out of the slabs...again pulling air into the medium. Much like the hand watering method described above, air in the medium is "a good thing".

Little minicubes work great in growrocks, because they're small and the developing root system pretty much blows them apart as the plants get bigger, plus the rockage will 'wick' alot of the excess wetness out of the minicube just like a slab would in the original hydroponic design concept of rockwool. I've been preaching about it for years, but I'll shout it out again... Big rockwool cubes in ebb&flow just plain "sucks ass" in e&f, it stays way too wet, gets clogged up with algae and becomes a friggin nightmare for many growers who try using it in this 'wrong application'... so if the thought of running big cubes ever crosses your mind...block it out..stay the hell away from the bigass rw cubes.


pfeew... I sure do get ta babbling sometimes eh?

hth and good luck,
10k

Nice looking setup you have there. It looks like you have everything down to the T. I'm glad to see other's growing AK-48. It's a fast growing plant that packs a nice punch when you smoke her. Do well on your grow!

10k said:

There is a much better way to accomplish what you're trying to do squeezing the hand watered minicubes. Just for a learning experience pick up two minicubes, gently, and dip them in a bowl of water 'soaking wet', now set one of the cubes down in a tray (nursery flat), now take the second minicube and while looking at the wet cubes top..set it down right on top of that first cube.

Notice how excessive water gets pulled downward out of the top cube, pulling in air at the same time? repeat the dipping if you'd like to see the rw 'performing the magic' again...Yea "bingo" the top cube is now holding just about a perfect ratio of water and air ! You can now set it aside and repeat this action for your remaining batch of planted minicubes you wan't to hand water.
10k

Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words, and sound advice. This community of people is awesome, I am glad to finally become a part rather than just lurking and learning, but I am a firm believer that one take silent time to learn before speaking.

Just to be clear because I don't want to flood my cubes and get damping off again - I submerge the whole planted cube, then set on another cube which will wick out th excess moisture. Should I use a soaking or a dry cube underneath to wick?

Is there a certain ml or cc anyone uses to water young seedlings in cubes?
I am trying to figure out the optimum amount with a syringe. 20 ml in a fairly dry (not bone dry, but little moisture) cube got it too wet. I will maybe try 15 ml and set it on top of another cube to absorb moisture.

Grinchy, gravity and capillary action WILL set the moisture level automatically for you.
It don't matter if you pour one tsp or one ounce, the gravity and the contact with the lower block will pull out the excess moisture and pull in the perfect balance of air every time. The lower block will stay the same wetness and will still pull it down the same amount each time so long as its not sitting in a deep pool of water. Put it in a nursery flat and you won't get pooling because the flat has drainage grooves in it. Just try it out with two blank cubes, repeat it several times. I just dunk em right in the bowl and they always suck up their capacity and drain off identically. You can proove it to yourself if you like by weighing the top cube several dunks...its almost deadnuts equal every time.

But I digress...There is more than one way to skin a cat, if you think its inconvenient.
Some use a spray bottle, some an eyedropper. Whatevers comfortable for you is fine, just don't squeeze the cube'age to remove extra wetness. If you must, swing it like you're shaking down a thermometer...that works too without damaging the rw structure.

I planted two because the taproots have not grown for a few days on the first plants I sprouted so I figured they needed more room to grow. My reservoir is around 200 PPMs so I only did one of each to see how it would handle it. Tomorrow I will report. I transplanted them this morning and they appear well at 9 PM







Also the next set of trees has started to sprout and is taking longer than the cubes soaked in rockwool soak with the seeds just dropped straight in. This means that out of plants that were first germed in a shotglass and then put in both PHed cubes and SN RW soaked cubed and also seeds that were just dropped in PHed and RW soaked cubes that the quickest method from seed to sprout for me was to just drop the seed in presoaked (24 hours and 1 hour - didn't matter) cubes that soaked in Supernatural RW soak to germ and sprout. Pre germing actually made the sprouts take longer, although they seemed to have a stronger tap root out the bottom. The RW soak improved speed slightly over just the PHed RW cubes.

Thanks 10k, I have been watering 15 ml(1 tablespoon) and just letting the runoff into the nursery flat. I tried stacking the cubes, excellent demonstation of the cubes operation. I will make sure to keep that in mind, i.e. no squishing cubes. Many thanks for your help.

Grinchy

100 % germination

I have some signs of overwatering, due to the fact the inside of these pots which have their sides intact hold a lot of moisture within their walls and only need to be watered once a day with these seedlings and the hydroton stays very moist. This is what hampered my first grow I suspect.

I also learned that The little sprouts can be put into my after only a few days and survive just fine, better if I hadn't overwatered I am sure. I tried ones with a sprout and no taproot exposed and also ones with a taproot out the bottom and no sprout yet. They all seem to have moved along fine.

I think this might also be due to the slolid wall pots, but I only need to water the bottom few inches and the water wicks all the way up in to the rockwool when flooded about an inch below the cube.

Grinchy

They are lookin good man. I also use a hydrohut but i grow with dirt. Was thinking of setting it up for hydro though so i will be watchin your thread to see how that goes.

Nice setup man. It looks like your dialing it in with the watering and feeding.

I have a couple questions for you though if you don't mind. =)

How high is your table from the res? It looks like it is pretty close leaving you more room in the hut and allowing the lower 6'' vent to do its thing. I ran into a problem with how I have mine set up and see how it can't effect you. I ended up getting a vacuum type seal around my table and the hut from the amount of air being sucked out from the top and the tabl being above the vents. I had to tape 1.5'' pvc pieces to the hut next to the table to keep it from forming a seal. Also, did you tape up the bottom vents?

Looking again, it seems your tray is setting right on the res. I didn't think of doing it that way since I am using a 40 gal res and it isn't long enough to set the 4x4 table on. I think I might have to upgrade to a 70 gallon one if it turns out I need more room.

Props on that setup. I am looking forward to seeing it fill up in there

chubbynugs said:

They are lookin good man. I also use a hydrohut but i grow with dirt. Was thinking of setting it up for hydro though so i will be watchin your thread to see how that goes.

Click to expand...

I tried hydro for my first indoor grow and failed fully, but am more stoked than ever to get it right. You got anything going now? Maybe we can do a little time comparison to see if hydro is any faster for me than soil for you to get to harvest. I choose hydro hoping to get faster times and larger yields as claimed, although I really have nothing to compare my results with. Thanks for lookin man

Happyflolucky said:

Nice setup man. It looks like your dialing it in with the watering and feeding.

I have a couple questions for you though if you don't mind. =)

How high is your table from the res? It looks like it is pretty close leaving you more room in the hut and allowing the lower 6'' vent to do its thing. I ran into a problem with how I have mine set up and see how it can't effect you. I ended up getting a vacuum type seal around my table and the hut from the amount of air being sucked out from the top and the tabl being above the vents. I had to tape 1.5'' pvc pieces to the hut next to the table to keep it from forming a seal. Also, did you tape up the bottom vents?

Looking again, it seems your tray is setting right on the res. I didn't think of doing it that way since I am using a 40 gal res and it isn't long enough to set the 4x4 table on. I think I might have to upgrade to a 70 gallon one if it turns out I need more room.

Props on that setup. I am looking forward to seeing it fill up in there

Click to expand...

Never mind answering questions man, as long as it is helping out. I could see that being a problem with the vent. This thing sucks in around my whole table edge. I have mine set on a "shim" I found at home depot. My shim is a L shaped piece of metal 4 feet long, don't know what it is for but it is very rigid and supports the back of my table to keep either side from sagging since the res in only 2 feet wide. Maybe you can use a few of them to support your table with a lower profile over the 40 gallon? This also sets a slope for proper drainage. Can you just cut your table support legs? Anyways here is a picture.


I do have my vents taped because of my roomate. He sheds. Thats why I put the filter on the intake hose which is actually just a shop vac filter. It has a perfect 6 inch outlet. Tape them on the inside if you do. All tape falls off the outside after a while.



Thanks for checking my stuff out man, good luck in your grow.

Hey grinchy! Yeah i have two bigger plants in my hut. I have the 39"/39"/76" hut. Here is some Columbian x Biko i am growing in the hut.



The huts kick ass. I have a digital 600 hps in there.

GRINCHY, WUZ UP WITH AN UPDATE I LIKE YOUR SET UP.

I was waiting for something good to happen for an update actually.
I can't seem to get this stuff right. I will update soon anyways with the bad.

THAT'S KOOL DUDE !!

This still going Grinchy?

Cool set up, ive got some bubbleicious coming too..cant wait to pop em!! Ill pull up a chair!

nice set up