What can the cops find out about you w/o a warrant? If you read the search warrant affidavit for the guy in Cali with the log cabin, the DEA pulled his credit card bills, pulled mortgage documents, put a GPS tracker on his car and there was no mention of warrants. SO if LEO is interested they can just call my mortgage company, creditors etc and ask what they want?

I understand something would have to tip them off but how much can they really dig w/o a warrant?

[JonnybeGood]

well with the expansion of the patriot act, cant they pretty much do anything in the name of terrorism?

[Verite]

They got warrants to do all those actions. You cant go digging into peoples personal finances and put trackers on their cars without a warrant. Getting that kind of evidence without a warrant voids the evidence from court.

[marx2k]

Of course the problem is, you don't know they have warrants for this sort of thing until it's too late. It's not like they come to your house and inform you they have a warrant and they're currently going through your finances and putting a chip on your car to find out what you're up to.

Also, Verite, how accurate is that these days? Not saying you're wrong, but aren't warrants sort of being phased out in the name of freedom?

[macster]

That's not the point Marx, what Verite is saying is all evidence gathered after they used illegal means is inadmissable in court therefore the case would be thrown out.and any lawyer worth his salt will discover this

[420inprogress]

And the guidelines to obtain a federal search/wiretap warrant is much liberal than state requirements.

[Verite]

Warrants being phased out? Unless they rewrote the constitution and the bill of rights, absolutely not. The patriot act [ A FEDERAL POWER ONLY ] isnt being used to bust local pot growers or any pot growers that Im aware of.

Also the typical pot grower [ 99.99% of us up here ] arent being busted by the feds so federal powers dont mean shit unless you happen to be stupid enough and in that 0.01% to have peaked the interest of the feds.

My state issues less than 10 wiretap warrants a year and every year Im positive Im not one of my states top ten interests.

So only the feds can use the patriot act and even so it probably wouldnt be used against a weed grower. And local LEO cant use the patriot act?

I was surprised that when they mentioned the GPS and and credit card info, there was no mention that they obtained that info from a warrant. Unless I missed it but I pretty much read that thing top to bottom.

Well good to know

[Verite]

What you read was one police officers affidavit on the case. If you want to know the whole story you need to get the court case transcript since thats the only part that tells you everything from all sides.

Heres the fed rules I found on it which indicate tracking devices do need a warrant.

In General. After receiving an affidavit or other information, a magistrate judge — or if authorized by Rule 41(b), a judge of a state court of record — must issue the warrant if there is probable cause to search for and seize a person or property or to install and use a tracking device.

(B) Warrant for a Tracking Device. A tracking-device warrant must identify the person or property to be tracked, designate the magistrate judge to whom it must be returned, and specify a reasonable length of time that the device may be used. The time must not exceed 45 days from the date the warrant was issued. The court may, for good cause, grant one or more extensions for a reasonable period not to exceed 45 days each. The warrant must command the officer to:

(i) complete any installation authorized by the warrant within a specified time no longer than 10 calendar days;

(ii) perform any installation authorized by the warrant during the daytime, unless the judge for good cause expressly authorizes installation at another time; and

(iii) return the warrant to the judge designated in the warrant.

(C) return the warrant to the magistrate judge designated in the warrant.

(2) Warrant for a Tracking Device.

(A) Noting the Time. The officer executing a tracking-device warrant must enter on it the exact date and time the device was installed and the period during which it was used.

(B) Return. Within 10 calendar days after the use of the tracking device has ended, the officer executing the warrant must return it to the judge designated in the warrant.

(C) Service. Within 10 calendar days after the use of the tracking device has ended, the officer executing a tracking-device warrant must serve a copy of the warrant on the person who was tracked or whose property was tracked. Service may be accomplished by delivering a copy to the person who, or whose property, was tracked; or by leaving a copy at the person’s residence or usual place of abode with an individual of suitable age and discretion who resides at that location and by mailing a copy to the person’s last known address. Upon request of the government, the judge may delay notice as provided in Rule 41(f)(3).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/Rule41.htm

[hamstring]

I think these discussions and new evidence is very valuable for all who visit this site. I have been visiting this site and before this OG for over 4years a newbe by many peoples standards I’m sure.
In my tenure I have seen debates over many security problems such as the two I am addressing here; GPS devices on your auto and being followed or monitored at Hydro stores.

Hydro Stores
I have previously been part of the group that thought it was hearsay and there have been many of us in this group. Do a search on this topic and you will see many people do not believe that by simply going to a hydro store will allow police to follow or monitor you. You will see comments,” Doesn’t happen because you could be growing tomatoes with the equipment.” I think the last few days have opened my eyes to exactly what I know or more importantly what I do not know. It now seems very possible that people have indeed been busted for visiting Hydro stores. There will be those that adamantly say that this is bogus. To me whether monitoring the store directly resulted in an arrest is not the point. The point is the police do monitor and follow you with out any other reason then you were there. They watch what you buy and based on that follow or monitor you. Yes, they still need a warrant to go into your house/grow area but you still have compromised your security and I rarely see people admit to that. If you are followed to you your grow area or followed at all you still have at least partially compromised all the hard work you put into keeping your grow a secret.

GPS
As for GPS being placed on your vehicle. At first many including myself thought you had to have a warrant to use these devices. Now I believe we at least have some credible evidence that’s not the case. I would like to address the argument that they only do that for large grows because it costs too much to pursue the little guy. That is the same language I heard and participated in the hydro store theme. When no warrant is needed I think you are only fooling yourself to believe that depending on the individual cop or city or too many other variables to call that a fact. I will never bank on that fact and believe it has and will be done again to the little guy. As stated previously and is my point here also if this is done your security has been breached. You know have to make that difficult decision do I go on.

To me all of this is important info not to be pushed off as paranoid delusions. All new and old growers should understand that this happens. If you get caught off guard you too may crack if the police mysteriously show up at your grow.
I am against those who dismiss this as credible and important info for all growers. Let the individual decide if its paranoid or not he/she is the one that has to live with the end circumstances.

I would love to see some attorneys on this site. How do we attract them here?