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Old 08-22-2007, 08:47 AM #1
Old School Cottonmouth

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Revival of the Ultimate Sativa GROW Thread

A guide to growing sativas.

Eye Candy: First pic is Nomad super silver haze. Second is L33t la nina (haze x white widow) and third pic is Budelaire's ecuadorian celestial temple sativa x hawaiian sativa. I'm not growing in a while now so unfortunately almost all of these pics are borrowed from other sativa aficinados to illustrate my points.

Well here it is. I've been asked to write a sativa grow thread. This is the place where you can learn to tame wild sativas so you can grow them indoors even in microgradens. This is also a great guide for people wondering if they can or how to grow the mexican bagseed sativas they have (or africans if you're in europe). This thread is mainly aimed at sativas that take about 11 to 15 weeks give or take a lil. This covers almost all sativas you're going to come across including bagseed, seedbank stock and mostly sativa hybrids. Except some equitorial varities like colombians, rare haze phenos, and some asians. Which will take longer but usually aren't suited to an indoor environment anway.

This is an addition to the Revival of the Ultimate Sativa Thread from strains and hybridization. if you've never seen it its a thread dedicated to all sativas, but especially exotic wild sativas. And in particular to help older smokers learn about the weed they smoked when they were younger, what it is, and where to find it. But this, this is the GROW thread. Where hopefully the regulars from the RUST can teach others how to take those plants right out the mystical forests of the african congo, colombian rainforest, vietnamese jungle or wherever and have it right in your cabinet.

The original RUST has gotten to be pretty long now and in sake of dividing the conversation into different paths I think we can get more defined and useful threads that you won't have to do so much sorting through, especially for the newcomers. So I'd like any grow questions or strain reccomendations here, and as well this can be a place that sativa growers can post diaries of a sort, where new growers can learn how different people tame their unique plants, and understand sativa time frames and growth rates; and hopefully teach others how they do so. So above all please post your grow specifications here. What you're growing, how you're growing it, and all the secrets that come with it.

And aim general sativa discussion, information about strains and regions etc. to stay in the orginal RUST. located here

Producing efficent sativa grows is easier than its made out to be. I say efficient because you'll never really get the same kinda yield from a sativa that you would from a cash crop hybrid when both are in a tuned garden. If you're a commercial gardener reading this don't bother with sativas unless its your own headstash. However as most of us know nowadays those cashcrop plants aren't too interesting. And even among indicas those time frames are going into the 70's (days flower). People don't even BS each other about 45 day plants much anymore. So if your like a good bit of growers out there doing a higher potency but lower yielding strain like diesels at 10 weeks, or a widow or whatever there is a good chance you could grow some much more interesting stuff and not lose much overall yield (in the growroom efficiency calculator) if done correctly.Which is really my next point.

Which is deeper than you might think. Alot of people have a very stereotypical view of sativas. They either think sativas and they think those racy crazy psychdelic haze type highs that make you paranoid and extremely wired and anxious; or they think the stuff where they sit around debating "am I high right now? No. Wait... maybe." for a couple hours till it wears off. Both are not actually that common of sativas. But are simply common seed bank sativas. They both do exist for those that want them, but most sativas are pretty stony and heavy. But more importantly they have what I call alot higher bandwidth stone. Smoked marijuana causes a variety of different chemical interactions in the brain that get you high. and some cause more than others. There is more to a high than potency, while no doubt many sativas are potent, the thing is they are much more complex than most indicas. At least in my and alot of others humble opinon.

On indicas I can get really really high. For sure. And there are some great indicas out there no doubt, I'm not hating on indicas. But ALOT of them I find relatively boring. I find the stone opiate like and one dimensional. If I smoke alot I hit a "cieling" where I don't get higher if I smoke, I just get more tired. I feel loaded no doubt, and REALLY comfortable, but I also have alot of trouble staying awake when I use alot of indica. Good for insomnia or pain, but I don't like they for day to day use. and though they get me loaded most don't get me high. I actually feel a lil depressed on indicas sometimes, instead of happy and high.

And they have alot of different effects. Alot of the times very different effects. On sativas I find I have alot higher multitude of stones to pick from. I can trip out psychedelic style on a haze or a highland mexican. Feeling heightened senses and a higher pulse rate. I can smoke an african and have a deep introspective high. The kinda weed that makes you contemplate life and death when you watch a spider wrangle a fly. That sorta weed. And I can smoke ALOT of these two types and get very high. no cieling. Keep getting higher. Which is great because you can smoke a lil in the moring or when you've got things to do and be functional but have a good time, or smoke some more and get pretty high. Or if I wanna get REALLY wasted I can smoke a lowland south american and get obliterated. Munch out and pass out on a stone that lasts so long I wake up stoned and **** my next day up.

But the main thing is the diversity. If you've been growing or smoking for any amount of time now you've been noticing the stones seem very similiar. And they aren't really highs anymore they are stones. You end up collecting different smells instead of highs. Or different potency levels on a very simiilar stone. No doubt it looks and certainly smells better than what you grew up with, but I hear ALOT of people saying they don't get high like they used to. The weed is alot more potent by the hit without question but for some reason they don't get high like they used to. IT'S THE WEED YOU'RE SMOKING! don't settle for bland narcotic stones. Exotic captivating weed is out there don't be afraid to find it. You can get just as high as you did when you were younger. And I personally think they are alot more fun.

And if you've never had a real sativa before, for a smoker its like living in the desert and never feeling the cold before. A unique other end of the spectrum.

Elevator Man's Malawi Gold Pure

The point I'm trying to make here... is that there there ain't no point to it. Thats all it is. Because there ain't no point. You didn't ask to come here and you sure can't choose how to leave. You don't know when you're going to go. So don't take this shit serious now. You better have some fun and plenty of it. Because when the shit is over and you ask for a refund its too late. All I can tell you is to keep some sunshine on your face. -Mudbone

Last edited by motaco; 10-06-2007 at 12:55 AM..
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:49 AM #2
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After the Katrina fiasco and some other things evolving in my life I haven't been growing in going on 3 yrs now, and like everything else that you stop for a while you get rusty. And I threw away my notes; so I'm going to leave the more specific directions to people showing their mixes. And I'm rusty, but I'm not that rusty. lol. I may not have my notes but I think its Noam Chomsky that says (obviously my coonass rendition of) "education is what you know after you forget all they shit they tried to teach you."

So I'm primarily going to walk you through what I KNOW. Which is organic soil root binding SOG sativas 12/12 from seed or clone. And I'll leave more of the LST/scrog hydroponic stuff to people that do it themselves. as I have less experience with that.

A BIG NOTATION. If you have a high ceiling space and 400w or larger you are better off using large pots, and supercropping IMHO. Those lights with unlimited ceiling space allow large enough coverage for the sized buds you will have. My upcoming notes about root binding pertain to small closet growers with a limited light range and height availability who still want to grow sativas. Worth noting.

So lets get this party started. lol.

The way my brain works I have to understand WHY before I even begin a strategy on anything. So I'm going to discuss how I came to settle on the "plantlet" method as its called- or 12/12 from seed SOG to be my bread and butter grow method for indoor sativas. And that is the natural instability of most sativas. Or not necessarily most, but most that I was growing were from pretty wild lands and were less "worked" or bred by man, so there is a higher hit and miss rate on good phenos. Combine that with me never seeming to keep less than five strains in a room at any time and I was having to cull plants to keep numbers down, and keeping a constant variety of new strains around me.

After some research I found out I wasn't alone in this, and alot of security paranoid growers that moved indoors during the scene change of the 80's had to deal with the serious problem of all their seedstock being sativa and having to grow indoors now. This was before people really knew about and developed the modern mother/clone SOG gardens and the "plantlet" method (12/12 from seed) was a parent idea of the modern SOG. The strain Williams Wonder, was born during this time and marketed to these growers, meant to be grown from seed under flower. So if you're starting now be glad, going on thirty years of trial and error has led to some valuable information nowadays. I learned this from older growers on OG, and now I give it to you.

SO WHY SOIL AND WHAT IS ROOT BINDING OR RESTRICTING? well two very important reasons. The first reason is the restriction. The bottom line main reason why to use a soil grow is that you can use small containers with a small amount of grow medium. You see for people who have been used to growing indicas and various hybrid plants are accustomed to plants maybe being three foot tall if veg'd for a month before flower. Or about a foot to two feet high if flowered from seed. Well a pure tropical sativa can grow to around seven feet in open soil good conditions in only three months if flowered from seed. And this is where root restriction comes in. The amount of soil is one of the direct indicators the plant has one the eventual size it is going to be able to grow to. Plants are going to try to stay alive, and to do this they are going to try and adapt to their conditions. If a seed sprouts in a patch of soil on a barren rocky mountain by the time its a few weeks old it is becoming aware of its environment, the temperature, humidity, and type of soil it has is all going to effect the phenotype (physical expression of the plant.) You see it knows that in this shallow rocky soil if it grows too big its going to abuse its tiny water sources, and if it gets to large its weak root system won't be able to support it, and the plant will adapt to live in this condition. Even though its the opposite of the tropical environment it expected to be born in it will still try to adapt and survive, and this is the biological defense you are trying to manipulate to get good sativa yields indoors in a small space. But even in small containers with root restriction you will come across plants that want to go seven feet and more. But those plants are the exception not the rule, and most plants you will be growing will not be this wild. Plants that do this are pure hazes, and other tropical plants that try to outgrow the surrounding underbursh for light, even if there is no surrounding brush. With a hydro or aero system as far as I know there is no way to limit growth and thus doesn't lend itself to wild sativas. Unless you top or scrog etc.

as you can see in this pic from L33t with SSH and rooi bart an african sativa less than 3 months old in small containers still wanna outgrow competition.

So that is really the next question. How much root restriction do I need and what does this entail exactly? Well there is no one answer to that. If your growing a pure thai you're probably going to want to pinch her toes pretty bad. If you're growing a 75 percent hybrid it might not need it as bad; and with many 60% hybrids you won't need it AT ALL in fact it'll lower yield dramatically. So you're really going to want to watch the rates of growth on your plants to try and determine this. Make sure its sativa enough that it needs it. It's not going to be an overnight learning experience, it takes a lil time to learn it, but within two grows you will probably have a good feel for how plants will behave. And the good news is two grows is roughly six months growing like this. You'll be an expert in no time. If you plant new seeds every two weeks and learn from your mistakes it'll be even less than that.

The main thing people usually say is that they've always heard not giving a plant enough root space was a sure fire way to give bad yields. The old "one gallon of soil for every foot of growth" rule is a bad idea to deviate from. And this is true because it halts growth so quickly. And that is exactly why we use it. A unrestricted equitorial sativa might have a foot or more between nodes. That is right two little buds, than a foot of stem, and two more buds, and another foot of stem. By slowing down this rate of growth the nodes get closer and closer and thus you end up with a shorter denser budded plant, rather than this wild plant reaching for the sky with sparse buds along the stem. So yes, it does impede growth, which is exactly what you want on a plant like this. But don't try it on your deep chunk. lol.

L33t SSH 73 days from seed.

L33t ssh and rooi bart from seed

its usually best not to bother with indicas 12/12. Chamans insta flower indicas.

Okay so how much soil? Well like I said before this is no one answer question. It depends on the strain you're growing and how it grows. Some plants grow at such an absurd pace its necessary to keep them in less than a half a gallon pot their entire life. Alot of growers even use 2ltr bottles to flower in and restrict roots; especially if they are microgrowers. It's a matter of personal opinion because too much soil and it overgrows your room with inefficient growth, too little and it stays all stem with tiny airy buds that never formed right. But on average, you're going to want to keep your plants in half to one gallon containers if you plan on having about three to five feet of growth out of it. There are really two schools of thought on how to restrict roots.

The first way is that you just simply give the plant one container. Period. Thats the method. If its a half gallon thats all it ever gets and it gets it from day one. The logic is that the plant learns early on how small its space is and adapts to it. This however; is not the method I prefer, no doubt it works just fine and is how many people do it who don't feel like transplanting, or don't believe in it. The reason I don't use this method is I can't control the binding any more should I find out that the plant is super stretchy. I also think that once the roots hit the bottom and bounce back up the roots are more prone to knotting and being root bound. Which does serve to limit height but I think also limits the possible yield.

The method I prefer is to gradually increase pot size. I usually transplant three or four times, from regular sized starter cups (I use one clear disposable drink cup inside an opaque one so I can observe root growth) until I can figure out their rate of growth and how much binding it will need. Usually good until about week two or first real set of 5 finger leaves start becoming primary.Than I move on up to a 2 liter. I would usually use just a regular clear 2ltr drink bottle, the light hitting the roots is bad so I would cover them in a growbag. That way I could pull out the bottle and check the root development and make sure soil is watered properly. Of course uniform square pots are best but usually hard to find. Bottles are easily available, and are narrow which help restrict roots much more than shallow wide pans. By the time they are ready to get out of 2ltr containers they should hopefully be starting to slow down off of the initial 3-4 week growth boom from the first weeks of flowering and the stretch should decrease noticeably. The plant is moving out of its stretch and into the budding so its safer to give it more soil. If the plant is now roughly two months old and in a half gallon or so of soil and isn't stretching hardly at all but is putting on good cola growth than you can give it as much more soil to go into as it wants. This is the reason I feel transplanting is superior to using one container. You can restrict them more severely during the stretching phases but when that is over you can give them enough soil to promote good bud growth. When you use one container the time the the plant feels "free" or unrestricted is during the stretch phase, and the time it feels cramped toes is during the budding phase. By transplanting with multiple containers you can reverse that.


Not to be overlooked I think people are often hurt their plants during transplanting and are scared to do it. But its not that bad. The first step is watering. So you're going to wait until your plant needs to be watered to transplant. Watering is always a two part process. First you EVENLY pour a small amount of water into your container and allow it to seep in. This is going to add moisture to the soil and help act like a sponge for the rest of the water and allow it to slowly wick into the soil and moisturize it properly and evenly. If you water all at once you are probably drenching half the roots; watching water pour like a water fall out the bottom of your pot, while the other half of the roots stays bone dry. Water follows the path of least resistance and if the soil is already too dry to retain moisture IMMEDIATELY the water runs out the bottom of the pot. You learn alot about roots and water if you use those bagged clear bottles trust me.

I've often heard weed should go through a wet and dry cycle to alternate root growth and then top growth. The logic is that it gets a good watering that stimulates top growth, and then when the soil dries it out helps deter root fungus, and oxygenates the soil as it dries. Well I personally think this is BS. Missing the wet dry cycle sure doesn't seem to hurt the growth rate with hydro . IMHO soil can and should hold the correct moisture level to allow prosperous growth of both types of roots and top growth at the same time. I think any stress on plants metabolic systems is bad whether its too dry or too wet. And thats what alot of people do. They dry the soil out until the plant shows them it needs water. Then they drown it and wait another week until it wilts from being dry; which not only deprives them of water while they are too wet, it also makes the soil hard and compact which doesn't hold air well once it is dry. Which is one reason I think soil grows move slower than hydro. If you've watered properly the soil shouldn't have compacted and should still be relatively loose which gives plenty of air. If you are THAT worried about your roots not having enough air then take a plastic tube or pipe a lil bigger than a pencil and cut it 3 inches longer than the top of your soil and cap one end. Drill holes in the pipe above where you capped it until 3 inches below the soil line. Stick them in the soil when you transplant and you can attach a air pump too it that will blow fresh air to your roots if you really want. Always judge containers by weight, you'll get a feel for it, and those clear containers will help until you do.

And when you are growing the plantlet method of such a large plant with a large root mass in a small container they go through water and nutes at an absurd pace. You will have to water once a day, maybe twice. With so many individual pots keeping the soil at the right moisture is not easy. The wet/dry cycle that was taking place as soil dries out over several days to a week is going to happen every day. And you've got to be there to stop it because in such a small container root damage happens quick from drought. And you obviously have to do it to each individual pot personally. You want optimum growth. Don't forget you are not trying to harm the plant (though it may seem like it at times by giving low nutes, bending stems, tiny pots, etc.), you are trying to tactfully change the growth pattern to make the plant adapt. It's not about hurting the plant to retard growth, its about getting the plant to understand its environments limitations.

To the damned point already. I should probably put that in caps too. lol. Anyway I think the reason most people are scared to transplant is that they either do it when its too dry, and when they pull the plant out the container they accidentally destroy alot of the root mass as soil falls like dust away from the roots. Or they wet the hell out of it so that it stays in one clump, but then when they try to get it out of the container it farts and sucks itself back to the bottom of the container, and then you end up breaking off the bottom 1/4 of the roots accidentally in the bottom. This is one reason I use mostly disposable pots, I just cut them open and pull them out, but if you water the soil the the correct amount, it will come out in one nice clump (and the absurd amounts of roots from the rootbinding will help it stay in a nice clump much more than other transplants you may have done) and then you can put it in the new container and water it the proper amount so the soils blend evenly.

When I pull out the soil mass I take a pocket knife and graze the roots lightly straight down from top to bottom in 4 places. don't cut the roots like an incision but break a few of them. The roots in a tiny pot are all bouncing off each other in different directions getting knotted up and when you transplant they still stay root bound. When you graze them they shoot out new roots trying to repair and end up finding the new soil giving you a growth boost. Hopefully this is timed with when they are done stretching and starting budding.
The point I'm trying to make here... is that there there ain't no point to it. Thats all it is. Because there ain't no point. You didn't ask to come here and you sure can't choose how to leave. You don't know when you're going to go. So don't take this shit serious now. You better have some fun and plenty of it. Because when the shit is over and you ask for a refund its too late. All I can tell you is to keep some sunshine on your face. -Mudbone

Last edited by motaco; 03-29-2013 at 12:06 AM..
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:52 AM #3
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Any high quality potting soil you have confidence in is fine. Use a mix you are familiar with. Sometimes I add extra perilite and sometimes I don't, but I always add perilite in my standard mix at 1 gal of perilite to 7-10 gal of soil. Don't use ANY ferts until the cotyeldons ( the very first two little round leaves that come up when they sprout) begin to turn yellow. Than you can give them some earth worm castings (EWC) tea or top dressing. It's important to remember here we are trying to LIMIT growth so we're not feeding the plants much. Especially not N. Sativas don't need as much nutes so if you are going to use nutes in your soil I reccomend just a lighter feed of the basic mix most ogranic growers use. 1 1/2, to 2 tbsp of powdered dolomite lime per gallon, and about half the doses of nutes. (you're supposed to use 1tbsp kelp, blood, and up to 2tbsp bone meal per gallon, you wanna use maybe half this.) As always the secret to organic soil is using myco a beneficial fungus that breaks down ferts into a soluble plant ready form, and two weeks sitting time for the lime to buffer the ph, and for the nutes to break down into something that will feed slowly and evenly and not burn the plants or have hot spots in it.

But here is the kicker. Plants need nutes. Its a fact. You can't just starve them. So you either have the option of having a less controlled slow release fert like the blood, bone, and kelp as your main food source, and feed with additional teas, or you can do what alot of people do. Especially small scale growers (400w and less) and only feed the plants nutes as it needs them with Pure Blend. This is a more controlled way to grow, but if your garden is of any size you will go broke paying for all that PB every day. So you see how much dry ferts you add is going to depend on how much additional teas you plan to feed them.

*!*!*!*! You can't just feed nutes solely, every day. The will get salt buildup and ruin your grow. You want to feed as little as necessary for healthy growth. If the plant refuses to respond you must repot to a larger container or risk reaching toxic levels of salts in your soil.


Nope. Nope. Quite the contrary. I am actually much younger than that and started out guerilla growing mexican and jamaican sativas with chems to keep pests away and have no problem with chems for people that wanna use them for growing weed. Jacks Classic is the brand I used and it works great, I just don't reccomend them for sativas. Sativas can be very finicky little plants, and hydroponic nutes have instant effect. Its very easy to burn them. This is also why I don't reccomend guano except as a mild top dressing and I don't reccomend home made fert teas. I mean hey if you're good enough with your teas that you feel confident than go for it, but if that is the case you probably don't need my sativa grow tips.

Guano is a very variable organic source with a quick release and hot material that is hard to get specific fert levels on. As are most organic teas (hard to get a real read on). When you are growing in larger pots, with a sustainable soil ecosystem this works fine. The nutes are there and the plant takes it as they needs them. Thats the basics behind organics. But when soil restricting in small pots it very quickly comes down to basically some sort of dry hydroponic grow. I realize that doesn't really make sense but what I'm saying is this is a very watering intensive way to grow. You have got to be johnny on the spot with the correct nute levels or you're going to be another person with sativa grow horror stories. Unless you feel comfortable enough that you've thought of making your own organic HYDROPONIC solutions I would leave the pure blend pro or your preferred nutes up to do the ferts. Unlike most ferts (no I am not a salesman) PB is not only a complete fert for both veg and flower but it is PH stable, made of all oganics, and amazingly prints the correct nute levels on the bottle. ( most #s on bottles tells the minimums of what it contains, not the exact levels. a BIG difference) The only thing it is a lil low in is MG and trance elements which are easily added with one of the numerous supplements like liquid karma. PB is actually so well balanced despite it being an organic fert tea it is equally usable in a regular DWC hydroponic system. So it lends itself VERY well to sativa growers in small pots who are trying to control the exact nute levels of their plants to manipulate growth and yield almost daily. If you do wish to fertilize stronger than you can use a mild tea or top dressing. But be wary. It's usually not necessary.

I often accidentally say PBP (pure blend pro) but I actually mean pure blend grow and bloom (3-1.5-4 and 1.5-4-5), however I have used PBP too; and it works fine.

Like I said the only problem is if your grow is of any size you will go broke. So if you're on a budget don't be afraid of the blood and bone meal with kelp. They are slow release and the plant won't be able to gorge themselves and grow wild (Not to mention readily available and dirt cheap). Nevertheless if you do plan to use the dry ferts I reccomend much stronger that you use several pots and not only one, so you can help prevent the plant from using too much nutes. You can let it have more dry nutes when you transplant and help keep a more stable nute diet with less risk of salt buildup.

This is something I don't hear very often and is pretty important. The amount of nutes you feed your sativa is also going to effect how long it flowers to a pretty dramatic amount in some cases. This is another place people try to grow sativas like indicas. With a hybrid plant as we all know those last 3 weeks or so is when all the real weight is put on. And you don't wanna skimp on ferts at this time. If the plant runs out of N its not going to produce as big of buds as it could've. So people usually feed up until about a week or a lil longer then they quit feeding. Which is what you should do for most plants.

But sativas aren't most plants. The reason those hybrid buds get so big and resinous those last few weeks is they think winter is coming. They are secreting resin trying to catch pollen, and desperately trying to produce enough energy in the buds to take care of seeds before a frost ends their life over night. Since there are no seeds they produce bigger buds.

But alot of sativas are from places there is no real winter to speak of. Most have no genetic background to be prepared for the concept of finishing for a frost. What determines finishing time for tropical sativas is nutrients. When they are in the wild there is no frost that forces them to try to make seeds. But if they run out of nutes they will die and so will their seeds. So when they start feeling nutrients running out in the ecosystem full of other nutrient thieves they know they need to put all energy into bud production for seeds and not growing more stem and leaves.

By keeping feeding your sativa N as fan leaves die during flower you are accidentally telling your plant that their ecosystem is thriving and they should compete to outgrow other canopy. Stem and leaves in other words which also extends the plants flower time dramatically. New growers often accidentally flower plants for nine months and stuff confused why new growth keeps coming out. Wondering when its going to end. This not only effects flower time but also the high. All those clear trichs aren't ready and produce anxious headache type stone mixed into your euphoric sativa.

As the plant yellows during the last month... good let it. Its natural. As long as it has P and K it will produce nice buds that are ready to finish in unison. Without all that new growth popping out of old growth. Sativas need very little N to produce growth; trust me. Let it finish you'll be happier with PROPERLY mature sativa buds for a change in a shorter period than you would have. This is the mistake so many growers make and why their weed is anxious and takes so long to flower. Also leads to alot of negative opinons about sats.

Flushing is real simple. just don't drown them. Its just like getting rid of a hangover. coffee or a cold shower don't do anything. only time and detoxing. Just use plain old water that last month with that sativa and you'll be fine. And thats about it for the grow.

Alright so in retrospect lets talk about this methods shortcomings and its saving graces.

PROS- without question the fastest way to get off a sativa harvest. The narrow diameter and manageable size allow them to even be placed in as hole fillers in your main garden to get a variety of smoke. You can identify moms, asess a strains potential, grow several varieties, put it in a harvest time frame comparable to most grows, and not waste much time growing males.

CONS- High plant numbers in individual pots. Aside from legal reasons watering is a chore not to be understated in this type of grow. Plants go though their water and nutes daily and you have to be johnny on the spot. Without a good understanding of your plant its easy to build up salts in the soil. And if you have a larger grow the watering task is enormous. By the time your done you can just start at the beginning again. They'll probably need another watering. That is an exageration of course; but you seriously may have to water twice a day. and with alot of individual pots it takes alot longer than what you'd like to think. This method of growing is for people with stable predictable lives who have A LOT of time to dedicate to their plants. Not for people who only see their plants a few hours a day at unpredictable times; and definitely not for those who only see their plants every couple days. If you choose to use only PBP it can be a pricey way to grow, and growing from seed leads to unpredictable results with different yields, growth rates, nute needs, and quality varies. Which is why you want to pick a mom as soon as possible and flower clones once roots are healthy enough. You also can't take clones with this method. Which means to get a mother you have to Re'veg a plant you liked and hope it does re-veg. I lost some of the best weed I've ever smoked from failed re-veg's and it breaks your heart to lose the cut you've been chasing.


Wait until she's ripe. It's really silly to grow a plant that flowers so long and harvest it when the stone is mild and undeveloped. Contrary to what you may have heard sativas should be harvested with the same amount of red hairs and color trichs as they look on any of your other plants. My personal harvest time is this. I am in love with what I call "mirror head" trichomes. When they turn from clear to amber there is a transition where they reflect sunlight like a mirror. When as many of them as possible are mirror I catch them before they decay to amber. They layout tends to be about 1/4 amber. half mirror, and 1/4 still semi clear. Thats when I like them.

Sativas usually have pretty airy buds that dry out pretty quick when chopped and hung upside down. The faster weed dries the harsher it smokes and the greener it tastes. So you don't want to cut it up into buds you want to hang it whole. Cut above the roots or a few inches below the first bud node. The large stem will help slow drying. Once you've slow dried the cure process is the same as it is with any other bud. Brown bag it, don't let it dry out, don't rough handle. Some sativas tend to smoke a little hotter than hybrids so its really important you don't do anything to make the smoke any harsher than it has to be.

The next thing that is heavily overlooked is aging. Sativas really smoke best when cured for six months or longer. A nice aging process really takes the edge off the stone and makes it much more enjoyable. Many sativas as I said earlier smoke a little rougher than baby face indoor plants like sensi star or something. A nice age will knock off alot of the harshness from the smoke if it was there to begin with. Though the main advantage to aging is not to cure the smoke, it's to cure the high. Many pure sativas are racy and edgy and can produce an unpleasant stone. Given enough time for the trichomes to age and mature the same strain can become very enjoyable and upbeat.

Some growers prefer aged herb enough that they don't smoke it less than a few months cured. Some even take the herb they plan on smoking for a few weeks ahead and break it up into small chunks, then expose it on a piece of tin foil to the sun for a several hours or as they see fit. They do it as they need more until the other herb is aged enough. This is something I have never personally done, but I know people who are pretty smart and they like it better this way. But only if its going to be consumed within a couple weeks afterward. Don't sun cure and then long term store. It will decay very quickly. It could be placebo, but some claim sun cured weed will degrade the exposed trichomes and change the chemistry of the stone into something still energetic and upbeat but with less anxiety.

All there is left to do now is get high and plan for next grow. How its going to be bigger and better. When you REALLY know wtf you're doing you might be able to call a sativa room like this yours one day. Star Crash is a great grower. super silver haze (not flowered from seed)

Which is the finale. Not having to grow runts, and males, and being able to have high quality moms of several sativa strains to do as you want with. LST, scrog, SOG, whatever is best for your grow. Which we'll elaborate on later.


Despite all this sativa from seed talk really I believe in SOG sativas from a well chosen clone. gets rid of all the insecurity, variability, and raises yield dramatically. But the premise of root binding is equally important on clones.

There isn't a whole lot to re-vegs. If you let your soil properly flush by letting the plant drain it of nutes it should be pretty nute depleted soil. If you didn't let all the nutes out you'll have to flush it with water. Cut the main stalk below the last node you can't give up. The more buds and foliage you leave on the plant the better your chances of a succesful reveg. If you trim the main stem too close it can kill the plant. After you cut the plant pull it out the pot and trim it the roots to a small but healthy root mass about the size the plant would have if it was naturally that size (instead of you cuttin it for harvest) and then transplant in fresh clean soil. Don't put it in intense sunlight, just fluro or edge of your veg space. Give it a mild dose of veg ferts, anything very low in P. Then wait. Within two weeks a surprising amount of vegative shoots should be popping out the old buds.

Only problem is they don't always work. I've lost some great plants due to failed re-vegs. But most turn out fine. You can take cuts or with a much faster rate or re-rooting you can use the cut for your mom and the re-veg bush for a scrog or something. Many new shoots come out and they become a bush surprisingly fast.
The point I'm trying to make here... is that there there ain't no point to it. Thats all it is. Because there ain't no point. You didn't ask to come here and you sure can't choose how to leave. You don't know when you're going to go. So don't take this shit serious now. You better have some fun and plenty of it. Because when the shit is over and you ask for a refund its too late. All I can tell you is to keep some sunshine on your face. -Mudbone

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Old 08-22-2007, 08:54 AM #4
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Well thats about it from my bread and buddah. I'll add some more stuff later I suppose but that is the jist of it.


Don't expect sativas to be as stable as something you bought from shantibaba. Period. Advanced breeding and seed sales have led alot of growers into being spoiled frankly. They expect every plant to be potent, stable, and well yielding. Well unless your growing pretty worked sativa strains like SSH or Kali Mist you really shouldn't count on that. You might have to grow out twenty specimens to get a really nice example whereas you might only have to grow a 10 pack of afghani #1 to find a good mom. You have to remember this weed isn't from a guy with a botany degree in a hydroponic lab in holland. It was saved by a pigmy in the congo or something and you can't expect the same kinda stability. But you can expect some really exotic and unique weed that is alot more interesting than an afghani or a g13 that does the same ol thing with a different smell. So what if you had to look for a few more to find a mom. Thats the price you pay, anything worth having isn't going to be easy.

la mano negra congolese

You know just because a plant is a 75% sativa don't instantly assume that its going to go through the roof or be nute sensitive. Some sativas can handle alot. Not finicky at all. They don't all grow tall either. Alot of modern hawaiian and jamaican strains are certainly what you would call sativa. at least 60-70 percent, but have already adapted to a 90 day cycle and small amounts of rocky soil from being hidden in the hills. They are not going to go 6ft on you. They might not need to be restricted at all. Same thing with some mexican bagseed. You might have a fatter leafed one go godzilla on you, after a thin leafed one stayed short and didn't need restricting. It's really plant to plant and with so many different plants being bred indoors, or in northern climates it can be surprising how they will behave sometimes.

Take for instance africa. Just because you didn't like one african sativa don't just give up on them. Sativas are often named after the country they are from or region. Africa is a big continent you know. A large part of it is near the equator with rainforests, the north is near hashish producing countries and desert like, and then a big smoking culture is towards the southern most tip of South africa with all the plains. And they all have different weed. But don't even worry about contient, a more direct example is lowland oaxaca vs highland oaxaca. They are polar opposites; (pics of both are in the original thread on 1st pg in mexican section). Highland is trippy and up with dense buds, while lowland is sparse and stony like trainwreck. Yet they are from the same area. You might grow lowland and hate it but don't let that stop you from other strains in the area. Treat them with the open mind you'd treat any other strain you hadn't smoked.

This is something alot of people picked up a long time ago, BOG helped spread it around, and it truly is a good idea, just not for sativas. When you grow hybrids that initial growth jump first few weeks of flowering where all new budsites is formed is a great time to have the plant flourishing on N to create growth. More budsites and more bud. But with sativas they use that energy to grow REAL TALL thinking they can get their buds up higher than the surrounding canopy and steal light for its seeds. But indoors all they do is grow right into your damn light. I can't tell you how many sativa grows I've followed and watched people do that veg nutes first weeks of flower trick only to find out three weeks later they have to cut all the dominant cola tips off the plants because they are growing into the lights. The people are always optimistic like "well I had to cut the main branches off but at this rate of growth I don't think it will hurt anything"

Yeah right. If you took your ak 47 and cut its main colas off so the lateral branches could grow up 3 weeks into flower you don't think it would hurt your yield? Dramatically. Lateral branches are great but they don't yield like main colas. Don't let them get too wild. Don't veg too long to begin with and if you do DEFINITELY don't hit them with a high dose of N going into flower like you would with a hybrid. Thats where most of these godzilla sativa stories come from.

Weed is a pretty tough plant but sativas often have pretty thin woody stems. One of the old tricks growers came up with that helps alot indoor is to squish the stem. Take it and carefully but firmly roll it around between your thumb and finger. You should just barely be able to feel the tissues snapping. You don't want to hurt it enough that it looks weak but the stem should feel slightly softer. its okay to do this on several spots on the stem between or below nodes. This hardens and thickens the stem and you can make them look freakishly thick. Lynz420 used to have picks of stems fattened out like cigars where she had pinched them along the stem. This slows vertical growth, allowing for nodes to get tighter which of course causes denser buds. It also causes ample support for big buds and the plant is apt to produce them if it knows it can handle them.


Yup you sure can. You can grow them with the tips I put up here. They usually flower between 70 and 100 days. Sometimes longer depending on how pure sativa it is. But most mexicans today are about 75% sativa. They are a good place to find free sativa beans if you are broke or just wanna try a few in your garden to get a variety. I know people do it with african weed they get it europe too, but I don't know much about it.


No. Not at all. Don't take my word for it ask Neptune with his bagseed mexican from Yelapa mexico.

One of the most common misconceptions held by alot of people even ones who should know better. The reason that weed is bad is a number of reasons. It may have been harvested a month too early or a month too late; severely hurting the high. It may have been attacked by bugs, or have mold. It may have been and probably was heaped in a pile in the sun until it was dry. Four grocery bags of weed is then pressed into something slightly larger than a masonry brick, and is left to age in a thousand degree barn before it is even shipped to the US and mishandled some more. None of these things has anything to do with the plants genetics potential to smoke. They are physical problems that weed itself went though before it came to your criticism. It might be stellar genetics just messed up.

Some of it is really terrible ditchweed. Horrible no trichome disgusting stuff. But not most of it. For one thing it compacts to the same size brick but is worth 40 an ounce and not 100. So thats not what most of it is. Most of it is hybrids of afghani and pretendica that came though there twenty years ago and is now getting bred out. Flashforward year '07 and most plants are 75% hybrids of classic old strains. Most of the schwag hate comes from relics of a day gone by. End of the 80's when most of the smokers were really becoming indoor weed oriented Mexican weed took a turn for the worse. Growers brough seeds of crap weed to mexico along with indicas and bred them. The result was really unspectacular to be nice about it and is what alot of growers remember as their last schwag experience between 88-95. A sad way to fall off a twenty year high of good outdoor sativa. But in the last decade its been getting more and more sativa, and fresher quality it looks like. Times are a changin'.

Don't get me wrong, schwag is still hit or miss much more than even nirvana is. But you can find really unique stuff. Mexican weeds importance in our smoking culture is downplayed alot. Aside from it being what most of us started smoking on (below the mason dixon line that is true till this day) its what alot of the breeders first started growing on. It was one of few imports you could actually grow. colombian and thai weed doesn't finish up in the states. But alot of people could grow mexican weed just fine with some real nice results. Highland oaxaca gold, regular oaxaca, acapulco gold. guerrero green, zacatecas purple, canary yellow, michouacan, and others were our cultures first real homegrown.

The zacatecas and several others weren't that potent but they have some incredibly strong weed out of mexico. Both sedative and psychedelic. Like highland oaxaca gold, or chiapan.

Alot of that cali weed that is so famous iand distinctive world wide for its spicy herbal smell has alot of mexican in its heritage. Despite all the thai, colombian, and indica genes that went through nor cal in the 70s and 80s at least a 1/4 of its backbone is mexican. Everything from blueberry to haze to trainwreck.


Well this is true and it ain't. Some plants might need real true sun and most would probably prefer it but most of them will still yield decent sized buds of satisfactory weed. But yeah it would probably be better outside. I've seen some VERY nice mexican sativa weed come out from under 150w with cfls's though; but upwards of a 400w or outside is optimum for most sativas. But things in life are rarely optimum. I understand alot of african weed is very picky about having high light and that is something you should think about if your doing african bagseed.


this is a tough one and some people have a hard time doing it. You don't judge this by how high the weed got you. You judge how high the weed got you vs how bad the weed looks. If you have two bags of schwag. One that looks like complete crap and you have one that is fresh and visible trichs and they have the same potency. Chances are the weed that looks like crap is better genetics than the one that looks better. The question you have to ask yourself is "what would this look like done proper?" If the weed is fresh and not bricked bad and only produces an average high. Its no good. Don't bother. The stuff you grow from it will not be of much higher quality. But if you come across super stong brickweed and it looks like something you'd really rather not smoke chances are its decent genes.

However on some brickweed. It'll be old and crushed and nasty and harvested early. But you can see the calyxs are covered in little tiny hairs. These are stalks. places where trichs used to be before they were destroyed. When you find one that has as many stalks as homegrown would, and is cut early and full of seeds grown somewhere in mexico, you can bet with attention it'll produce something much nicer. Unfortunately alot of the nicer mexican genes comes from much further south or rural areas and gets rough handled quite a bit more.

I remember back in 99 or so when we started to see "pretendo" which is mexican grown (often domestic) fresh bricked weed. And it sucked. Since it was fresh it commanded a higher price and was thought of as "mid grade". I mean what weed doesn't get you stoned right? Even crappy genetics (which pretendo usually is, more indica'y mexican) when fresh and grown till harvest pack a punch. All my country friends were saying "ooh I'm savin beans of this" and the plants they grew weren't much better. That year I grew plants from schwag of a similiar potency but looked like hell and had much better results when I harvested.

Well yes and no. Not for everyone. Some people just live places where unfortunately they'll never see a good bag of brickweed. It's just commercial mexican genes which are nothing to speak of. But if you are one of the blessed few below the mason dixon line who get lucky enough to come across the better specimens the mexicans send over its quite possible. There is two ways to find it.

1) be lucky. just happen to get the right bag
2) live in or around an urban hell hole where there are a buncha drug dealers and you get to see alot of different bags of brickweed whenever you want. They'll usually try to sell the better bags at a higher price. just because they know they can. Even though they usually come in at the same price.

So the bottom line is unless you are lucky on a bag that looked really bad and happened to be good genes; you really want to start out with some brickweed that knocked your socks off. Some people never experience this and thus don't even believe it exists. But there is mexican brickweed every year of a superior quality. Color enhancement, audial distortion, extreme paranoia (if you're into that),feeling "floaty" and giggle fits are sure fire signs of superior mexican brickweed.

Next thing is that you need to choose the seeds out of specific buds that got you high. Don't just take them out of the bottom of the bag. Those seeds could've been from runts, lower potency buds, etc. All the bud from hundreds of plants gets bricked up together. You never know where one plant ends and the other begins. So pick seeds out of buds you chose for quality.

Now that you have well chosen seeds you need LOTS of them. luckily schwag is full of it and with a friend or two and a dealers help you can easily end up with a few hundred. Like any weed but the reason more important with brickweed you want to pick from a large selection to take your mom from. Ten seeds of brickweed don't mean shit. They weren't worked by shantibaba you need alot of them to find the true superior quality specimen. Grow them and cull them for any and every reason. Keep only those of superior growth (both rate of growth and pheno expression) and smell. With any luck you will have turned brick into something unique that will straighten your dick.

A certain satisfaction of having quality genes seedbanks don't sell.
The point I'm trying to make here... is that there there ain't no point to it. Thats all it is. Because there ain't no point. You didn't ask to come here and you sure can't choose how to leave. You don't know when you're going to go. So don't take this shit serious now. You better have some fun and plenty of it. Because when the shit is over and you ask for a refund its too late. All I can tell you is to keep some sunshine on your face. -Mudbone

Last edited by motaco; 10-08-2007 at 10:53 PM..
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:52 PM #5

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I'm waiting for a real bomb thread about that what I love the most!

Thanks for your efforts and work you are doing in this thread and in whole International Cannagraphic, Motaco!

Keep the Sativas alive!


Old 08-22-2007, 08:55 PM #6

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this will be an excellent resource for the indoor perils of the stretchy sativas and limited vertical space. i'll be following it.

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Old 08-22-2007, 10:33 PM #7

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Ive got about 5' of useable height in my 7' tent, and im afaid still of sativas getting too tall, hopefully you can un-afraid me so I can have my haze back!
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Old 08-22-2007, 11:00 PM #8
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been waiting for a sativa thread like this for awhile. looking forward to the start!
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Old 08-23-2007, 12:27 AM #9
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Once again....
.....good idea motaco!!!!
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Old 08-23-2007, 12:29 AM #10
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