U.S. to Expand Domestic Use Of Spy Satellites - Security & Legal Issues - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

badboyg · 08-16-2007, 03:43 AM

and we were worried about FLIR

U.S. to Expand Domestic Use Of Spy Satellites

ROBERT BLOCK
Wall Street Journal
Wednesday, August 15, 2007

The U.S.'s top intelligence official has greatly expanded the range of federal and local authorities who can get access to information from the nation's vast network of spy satellites in the U.S.

The decision, made three months ago by Director of National Intelligence Michael McConnell, places for the first time some of the U.S.'s most powerful intelligence-gathering tools at the disposal of domestic security officials. The move was authorized in a May 25 memo sent to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff asking his department to facilitate access to the spy network on behalf of civilian agencies and law enforcement.

Until now, only a handful of federal civilian agencies, such as the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the U.S. Geological Survey, have had access to the most basic spy-satellite imagery, and only for the purpose of scientific and environmental study.

According to officials, one of the department's first objectives will be to use the network to enhance border security, determine how best to secure critical infrastructure and help emergency responders after natural disasters. Sometime next year, officials will examine how the satellites can aid federal and local law-enforcement agencies, covering both criminal and civil law. The department is still working on determining how it will engage law enforcement officials and what kind of support it will give them.

Access to the high-tech surveillance tools would, for the first time, allow Homeland Security and law-enforcement officials to see real-time, high-resolution images and data, which would allow them, for example, to identify smuggler staging areas, a gang safehouse, or possibly even a building being used by would-be terrorists to manufacture chemical weapons.

Overseas -- the traditional realm of spy satellites -- the system was used to monitor tank movements during the Cold War. Today, it's used to monitor suspected terrorist hideouts, smuggling routes for weapons in Iraq, nuclear tests and the movement of nuclear materials, as well as to make detailed maps for U.S. soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Plans to provide DHS with significantly expanded access have been on the drawing board for over two years. The idea was first talked about as a possibility by the Central Intelligence Agency after 9/11 as a way to help better secure the country. "It is an idea whose time has arrived," says Charles Allen, the DHS's chief intelligence officer, who will be in charge of the new program. DHS officials say the program has been granted a budget by Congress and has the approval of the relevant committees in both chambers.

Wiretap Legislation

Coming on the back of legislation that upgraded the administration's ability to wiretap terrorist suspects without warrants, the development is likely to heat up debate about the balance between civil liberties and national security.

Access to the satellite surveillance will be controlled by a new Homeland Security branch -- the National Applications Office -- which will be up and running in October. Homeland Security officials say the new office will build on the efforts of its predecessor, the Civil Applications Committee. Under the direction of the Geological Survey, the Civil Applications Committee vets requests from civilian agencies wanting spy data for environmental or scientific study. The Geological Survey has been one of the biggest domestic users of spy-satellite information, to make topographic maps.

Unlike electronic eavesdropping, which is subject to legislative and some judicial control, this use of spy satellites is largely uncharted territory. Although the courts have permitted warrantless aerial searches of private property by law-enforcement aircraft, there are no cases involving the use of satellite technology.

In recent years, some military experts have questioned whether domestic use of such satellites would violate the Posse Comitatus Act. The act bars the military from engaging in law-enforcement activity inside the U.S., and the satellites were predominantly built for and owned by the Defense Department.

According to Pentagon officials, the government has in the past been able to supply information from spy satellites to federal law-enforcement agencies, but that was done on a case-by-case basis and only with special permission from the president.

Even the architects of the current move are unclear about the legal boundaries. A 2005 study commissioned by the U.S. intelligence community, which recommended granting access to the spy satellites for Homeland Security, noted: "There is little if any policy, guidance or procedures regarding the collection, exploitation and dissemination of domestic MASINT." MASINT stands for Measurement and Signatures Intelligence, a particular kind of information collected by spy satellites which would for the first time become available to civilian agencies.

According to defense experts, MASINT uses radar, lasers, infrared, electromagnetic data and other technologies to see through cloud cover, forest canopies and even concrete to create images or gather data.

Tracking Weapons

The spy satellites are considered by military experts to be more penetrating than civilian ones: They not only take color, as well as black-and-white photos, but can also use different parts of the light spectrum to track human activities, including, for example, traces left by chemical weapons or heat generated by people in a building.

Mr. Allen, the DHS intelligence chief, said the satellites have the ability to take a "multidimensional" look at ports and critical infrastructure from space to identify vulnerabilities. "There are certain technical abilities that will assist on land borders...to try to identify areas where narcotraficantes or alien smugglers may be moving dangerous people or materials," he said.

The full capabilities of these systems are unknown outside the intelligence community, because they are among the most closely held secrets in government.

Some civil-liberties activists worry that without proper oversight, only those inside the National Application Office will know what is being monitored from space.

"You are talking about enormous power," said Gregory Nojeim, senior counsel and director of the Project on Freedom, Security and Technology for the Center for Democracy and Technology, a nonprofit group advocating privacy rights in the digital age. "Not only is the surveillance they are contemplating intrusive and omnipresent, it's also invisible. And that's what makes this so dangerous."

Mr. Allen, the DHS intelligence chief, says the department is cognizant of the civil-rights and privacy concerns, which is why he plans to take time before providing law-enforcement agencies with access to the data. He says DHS will have a team of lawyers to review requests for access or use of the systems.

"This all has to be vetted through a legal process," he says. "We have to get this right because we don't want civil-rights and civil-liberties advocates to have concerns that this is being misused in ways which were not intended."

DHS's Mr. Allen says that while he can't talk about the program's capabilities in detail, there is a tendency to overestimate its powers. For instance, satellites in orbit are constantly moving and can't settle over an area for long periods of time. The platforms also don't show people in detail. "Contrary to what some people believe you cannot see if somebody needs a haircut from space," he says.

James Devine, a senior adviser to the director of the Geological Survey, who is chairman of the committee now overseeing satellite-access requests, said traditional users of the spy-satellite data in the scientific community are concerned that their needs will be marginalized in favor of security concerns. Mr. Devine said DHS has promised him that won't be the case, and also has promised to include a geological official on a new interagency executive oversight committee that will monitor the activities of the National Applications Office.

Mr. Devine says officials who vetted requests for the scientific community also are worried about the civil-liberties implications when DHS takes over the program. "We took very seriously our mission and made sure that there was no chance of inappropriate usage of the material," Mr. Devine says. He says he hopes oversight of the new DHS program will be "rigorous," but that he doesn't know what would happen in cases of complaints about misuse.

08-16-2007, 05:07 AM

yea, i think most growing might have to be moved outdoors again within 10 years or just be done on a small personal scale with lights that wouldn't look out of the ordinary in terms of heat signature to the spy satellites. The days of 20kw grows in the US may be coming to an end....

dude06version · 08-16-2007, 05:16 AM

well hopefully in a couple years leds will be able to compete with hps.. and heat sigs wont be a problem... shits sad its gonna be like scanner darkly pretty soon...

08-16-2007, 05:29 AM

Remember, there is always going to be someone smarter then these guys. There will be a way around blocking the scanning. It's ****ed up for sure, but i hate to say it. They've already been doing this type of shit already. I read a article about them scanning plots in TN and KY. Mapping the pattern of cannabis in the wild. Giving the computer data on what to look for. I think the article also stated that the government use their own plots to give the computer the image and wave length patterns that the plants put off, so. Yes, they've already been doing some of this shit for sometime. It sucks, but there will be ways around their little game. Just look at all the hackers and crackers. You can never stop those guys or girls.
Take care all,
BG

FrankRizzo · 08-16-2007, 05:40 AM

"According to defense experts, MASINT uses radar, lasers, infrared, electromagnetic data and other technologies to see through cloud cover, forest canopies and even concrete to create images or gather data."

Now thats some scary stuff. Hope you're right about the LED's or we might be screwed.

bergerbuddy · 08-16-2007, 07:41 AM

yes this 9-11 fear and security shit is going way to far... have no doubt that these satellites would be able to find grow houses... they are all ready able to tell cannabis plants with these from the HEAT SIGNATURE of cannabis.. nothing to do with color at all.... This tech found the huge grow operation in the corn feilds in central washington (Bud King was growing it.. what a name!!)... and that was TEN YEARS ago...

08-16-2007, 09:02 AM

I wouldnt start to worry that the sky is falling just yet my friends.

DIGITALHIPPY · 08-17-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishSoCo

yea, i think most growing might have to be moved outdoors again within 10 years or just be done on a small personal scale with lights that wouldn't look out of the ordinary in terms of heat signature to the spy satellites. The days of 20kw grows in the US may be coming to an end....

u forgot this is the american gov.

there notoriouse idiots.

they cant get it all. there will always be a inginuitive person out there who can get away with it.

infact im convince with the same tech well be able to stay one step ahead of them.

08-17-2007, 11:36 PM

Well once the federal reserve note is worthless, they won't be able to pay people to continue this bullshit.

And it will become worthless, you could even start holding your breath I bet.

badboyg · 08-18-2007, 04:16 AM

^^^ you know in a sick way your to bloody right... nailed the bitch to the wall...^^

08-16-2007, 03:43 AM	#1
badboyg Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 238	U.S. to Expand Domestic Use Of Spy Satellites and we were worried about FLIR U.S. to Expand Domestic Use Of Spy Satellites ROBERT BLOCK Wall Street Journal Wednesday, August 15, 2007 The U.S.'s top intelligence official has greatly expanded the range of federal and local authorities who can get access to information from the nation's vast network of spy satellites in the U.S. The decision, made three months ago by Director of National Intelligence Michael McConnell, places for the first time some of the U.S.'s most powerful intelligence-gathering tools at the disposal of domestic security officials. The move was authorized in a May 25 memo sent to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff asking his department to facilitate access to the spy network on behalf of civilian agencies and law enforcement. Until now, only a handful of federal civilian agencies, such as the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the U.S. Geological Survey, have had access to the most basic spy-satellite imagery, and only for the purpose of scientific and environmental study. According to officials, one of the department's first objectives will be to use the network to enhance border security, determine how best to secure critical infrastructure and help emergency responders after natural disasters. Sometime next year, officials will examine how the satellites can aid federal and local law-enforcement agencies, covering both criminal and civil law. The department is still working on determining how it will engage law enforcement officials and what kind of support it will give them. Access to the high-tech surveillance tools would, for the first time, allow Homeland Security and law-enforcement officials to see real-time, high-resolution images and data, which would allow them, for example, to identify smuggler staging areas, a gang safehouse, or possibly even a building being used by would-be terrorists to manufacture chemical weapons. Overseas -- the traditional realm of spy satellites -- the system was used to monitor tank movements during the Cold War. Today, it's used to monitor suspected terrorist hideouts, smuggling routes for weapons in Iraq, nuclear tests and the movement of nuclear materials, as well as to make detailed maps for U.S. soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan and Iraq. Plans to provide DHS with significantly expanded access have been on the drawing board for over two years. The idea was first talked about as a possibility by the Central Intelligence Agency after 9/11 as a way to help better secure the country. "It is an idea whose time has arrived," says Charles Allen, the DHS's chief intelligence officer, who will be in charge of the new program. DHS officials say the program has been granted a budget by Congress and has the approval of the relevant committees in both chambers. Wiretap Legislation Coming on the back of legislation that upgraded the administration's ability to wiretap terrorist suspects without warrants, the development is likely to heat up debate about the balance between civil liberties and national security. Access to the satellite surveillance will be controlled by a new Homeland Security branch -- the National Applications Office -- which will be up and running in October. Homeland Security officials say the new office will build on the efforts of its predecessor, the Civil Applications Committee. Under the direction of the Geological Survey, the Civil Applications Committee vets requests from civilian agencies wanting spy data for environmental or scientific study. The Geological Survey has been one of the biggest domestic users of spy-satellite information, to make topographic maps. Unlike electronic eavesdropping, which is subject to legislative and some judicial control, this use of spy satellites is largely uncharted territory. Although the courts have permitted warrantless aerial searches of private property by law-enforcement aircraft, there are no cases involving the use of satellite technology. In recent years, some military experts have questioned whether domestic use of such satellites would violate the Posse Comitatus Act. The act bars the military from engaging in law-enforcement activity inside the U.S., and the satellites were predominantly built for and owned by the Defense Department. According to Pentagon officials, the government has in the past been able to supply information from spy satellites to federal law-enforcement agencies, but that was done on a case-by-case basis and only with special permission from the president. Even the architects of the current move are unclear about the legal boundaries. A 2005 study commissioned by the U.S. intelligence community, which recommended granting access to the spy satellites for Homeland Security, noted: "There is little if any policy, guidance or procedures regarding the collection, exploitation and dissemination of domestic MASINT." MASINT stands for Measurement and Signatures Intelligence, a particular kind of information collected by spy satellites which would for the first time become available to civilian agencies. According to defense experts, MASINT uses radar, lasers, infrared, electromagnetic data and other technologies to see through cloud cover, forest canopies and even concrete to create images or gather data. Tracking Weapons The spy satellites are considered by military experts to be more penetrating than civilian ones: They not only take color, as well as black-and-white photos, but can also use different parts of the light spectrum to track human activities, including, for example, traces left by chemical weapons or heat generated by people in a building. Mr. Allen, the DHS intelligence chief, said the satellites have the ability to take a "multidimensional" look at ports and critical infrastructure from space to identify vulnerabilities. "There are certain technical abilities that will assist on land borders...to try to identify areas where narcotraficantes or alien smugglers may be moving dangerous people or materials," he said. The full capabilities of these systems are unknown outside the intelligence community, because they are among the most closely held secrets in government. Some civil-liberties activists worry that without proper oversight, only those inside the National Application Office will know what is being monitored from space. "You are talking about enormous power," said Gregory Nojeim, senior counsel and director of the Project on Freedom, Security and Technology for the Center for Democracy and Technology, a nonprofit group advocating privacy rights in the digital age. "Not only is the surveillance they are contemplating intrusive and omnipresent, it's also invisible. And that's what makes this so dangerous." Mr. Allen, the DHS intelligence chief, says the department is cognizant of the civil-rights and privacy concerns, which is why he plans to take time before providing law-enforcement agencies with access to the data. He says DHS will have a team of lawyers to review requests for access or use of the systems. "This all has to be vetted through a legal process," he says. "We have to get this right because we don't want civil-rights and civil-liberties advocates to have concerns that this is being misused in ways which were not intended." DHS's Mr. Allen says that while he can't talk about the program's capabilities in detail, there is a tendency to overestimate its powers. For instance, satellites in orbit are constantly moving and can't settle over an area for long periods of time. The platforms also don't show people in detail. "Contrary to what some people believe you cannot see if somebody needs a haircut from space," he says. James Devine, a senior adviser to the director of the Geological Survey, who is chairman of the committee now overseeing satellite-access requests, said traditional users of the spy-satellite data in the scientific community are concerned that their needs will be marginalized in favor of security concerns. Mr. Devine said DHS has promised him that won't be the case, and also has promised to include a geological official on a new interagency executive oversight committee that will monitor the activities of the National Applications Office. Mr. Devine says officials who vetted requests for the scientific community also are worried about the civil-liberties implications when DHS takes over the program. "We took very seriously our mission and made sure that there was no chance of inappropriate usage of the material," Mr. Devine says. He says he hopes oversight of the new DHS program will be "rigorous," but that he doesn't know what would happen in cases of complaints about misuse.
	Quote

08-16-2007, 07:41 AM	#6
bergerbuddy Canna Coco grower Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Washington State Medical Grower Posts: 1,041	yes this 9-11 fear and security shit is going way to far... have no doubt that these satellites would be able to find grow houses... they are all ready able to tell cannabis plants with these from the HEAT SIGNATURE of cannabis.. nothing to do with color at all.... This tech found the huge grow operation in the corn feilds in central washington (Bud King was growing it.. what a name!!)... and that was TEN YEARS ago... __________________ AMERICANS..... Don't BLAME ME... I VOTED FOR Dr. RON PAUL in my primary.. STOP SNITCHING!! DR. RAND PAUL FOR US SENATE 2010! Ron Paul's son, Rand Paul is running for US Senate! https://www.randpaul2010.com Detroit-based U.S. Attorney Stephen Murphy: "hydroponically grown marijuana is chemically supercharged and comparable to cocaine in its effects." July 2007 ï¿½Marihuana is Mexican opium, a plant used by Mexicans and cultivated for sale by Indians. "When some beet field peon takes a few rares of this stuff, He thinks he has just been elected president of Mexico so he starts out to execute all his political enemies." Dr. Fred Fulsher of Mineral County during testimony in 1934 ORIGINALLY making cannbis illegal. If you want to support evildoing LIARS like this then be a snitch.. just remember and KNOW what you will become too... so STOP SNITCHING!!!!
	Quote

08-16-2007, 05:07 AM	#2
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	yea, i think most growing might have to be moved outdoors again within 10 years or just be done on a small personal scale with lights that wouldn't look out of the ordinary in terms of heat signature to the spy satellites. The days of 20kw grows in the US may be coming to an end....
	Quote

08-16-2007, 05:16 AM	#3
dude06version Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 767	well hopefully in a couple years leds will be able to compete with hps.. and heat sigs wont be a problem... shits sad its gonna be like scanner darkly pretty soon...
	Quote

08-16-2007, 05:29 AM	#4
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Remember, there is always going to be someone smarter then these guys. There will be a way around blocking the scanning. It's ****ed up for sure, but i hate to say it. They've already been doing this type of shit already. I read a article about them scanning plots in TN and KY. Mapping the pattern of cannabis in the wild. Giving the computer data on what to look for. I think the article also stated that the government use their own plots to give the computer the image and wave length patterns that the plants put off, so. Yes, they've already been doing some of this shit for sometime. It sucks, but there will be ways around their little game. Just look at all the hackers and crackers. You can never stop those guys or girls. Take care all, BG
	Quote

08-16-2007, 05:40 AM	#5
FrankRizzo Listen to me jerky Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 936	"According to defense experts, MASINT uses radar, lasers, infrared, electromagnetic data and other technologies to see through cloud cover, forest canopies and even concrete to create images or gather data." Now thats some scary stuff. Hope you're right about the LED's or we might be screwed.
	Quote

08-16-2007, 09:02 AM	#7
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	I wouldnt start to worry that the sky is falling just yet my friends.
	Quote

08-17-2007, 11:36 PM	#9
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Well once the federal reserve note is worthless, they won't be able to pay people to continue this bullshit. And it will become worthless, you could even start holding your breath I bet.
	Quote

08-18-2007, 04:16 AM	#10
badboyg Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 238	^^^ you know in a sick way your to bloody right... nailed the bitch to the wall...^^
	Quote